What war has the best movies?

[Biohazard]

WW1, WW2, Civil War, Vietman, etc...?


World War 2 looks to be the champ, with such great films as:

Saving Private Ryan
Das Boot
Schindler's List
The Bridge on the River Kwai (if you want to count that)
Patton
The Thin Red Line
The Dirty Dozen
The Great Escape

Vietman is also pretty damn good (Apocalypse Now, Full Metal Jacket, Platoon, etc).

[Pen Dragon]

the dirty dozen pfft
the great escape pfft

You forgot to mention The Devil's Brigade and The Heroes of Telemark

pfft pfft

[whitenavel]

The Big Red One
Downfall

WWII wins.

[Fortean]

What's with the Hollywood-centric notion of "American" war films?

ALL QUIET ON THE WESTERN FRONT (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0020629/combined)

LA GRANDE ILLUSION (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0028950/combined)

SERGEANT YORK (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0034167/combined)

PATHS OF GLORY (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0050825/combined)

LAWRENCE OF ARABIA (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0056172/combined)

JOHNNY GOT HIS GUN (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0067277/combined)

[Pen Dragon]

Cliff Robertson played a canadian in The Devil's Brigade. We all have scottish accents here

And what about Rock Hudson in Tobruk? Canadians everywhere in Hollywood war flicks

[wolfy262]

In terms of movies, Vietnam wins IMHO

Go tell the Spartans
Full Metal Jacket
Platoon
Hanoi Hilton
The Deer Hunter
Apocalypse Now
Birdy
Coming Home
Hamburger Hill

[flyingcactus]

I think Vietnam, too.

But Three Kings sure started a great potential line of Gulf movies.

[TwoBitHack]

It definitely comes down to WWII and Vietnam.

I would say that Grenada and the Falklands Islands wars are non-starters along with the War on Poverty.

[wolfy262]

Re, The Falklands - An Ungentlemanly Act is one of the great films about war, and the reality of how it's fought - not in a Saving Private Ryan Way, but the confusion and incompetence that takes place during a battle.

Lt. Quiroga
Mr Hunt, time to give up Mr Hunt. Your phone is cut off, armoured amphibious vehicles will be closing in soon! Mr Hunt, we have very superior numbers. I am sure you are a reasonable man Come out with your hands on head... alone!

Colour Sgt Muir
F•ck off you Argie bastards!

Plus, it has penguins.



The Milagro Beafield War - that never started much of a genre

[Salazkin]

It definitely comes down to WWII and Vietnam.

I would say that Grenada and the Falklands Islands wars are non-starters along with the War on Poverty.LOL

I give the edge (over WWII) to Vietnam, with:

Apocalypse Now
The Deer Hunter
Platoon
Full Metal Jacket

[Deus Ex Machine]

I think The Best Years of Our Lives and Born on the 4th of July are equally good.

[riskmandel]

I'd have to say WWII, because it's really interesting how the war has been reinterpreted over the years, from the John Wayne hero films, to the more introspective Thin Red Line, to Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan where we actually saw Americans shoot unarmed Germans for the first time.

[dclary]

wwii easily and hands down.

It's not even close.

[Authorized]

WWII - Yes

But, the best is yet to come...

War on Terror films in the pipeline.

[roscoegino]

What gives Vietnam films the edge for me is the conflicts that occured both here and abroad. During the war and afterward. There are some masterpieces left to be made on this subject for sure.

[dclary]

That's the reason why I don't think Vietnam's movies are the best. Who the hell wants to see a bunch of leftist pus*sies complaining about not wanting to go to war? Punk asses. Gimme a movie where men weren't afraid to be men, and to buck up and do what was necessary.

Remember: The US won the physical ground war in Vietnam. By a huge margin. The only place we lost was in our own psyche, thanks to the media, the peaceniks, and the communist insurgents within those groups.

[Deus Ex Machine]

France and later the USA went to war in Vietnam to prevent a democratically elected leader from taking power over the people who had elected him because he wanted to establish trade relations with the Soviet Union.


Considering how many American soldiers people died while trying to subvert a democracy and prevent trade with a country that the USA does billions of dollars in trade with each year, it seems to me the only kinds of films that can do any justice to those who died are those that question the motives behind the war and the reality of the outcome.

[dclary]

Ergo: WWII movies are WAY better.

[wcmartell]

STEEL HELMET
FIXED BAYONETTES
MASH

All Korea.

[roscoegino]

That's the reason why I don't think Vietnam's movies are the best. Who the hell wants to see a bunch of leftist pus*sies complaining about not wanting to go to war? Punk asses. Gimme a movie where men weren't afraid to be men, and to buck up and do what was necessary.

That's not fair. Not all people who dodged the draft or refused to go were punk asses. Ali could've lost his life in the ring. WWII and Vietnam are two very different wars fought behind entirely different motives.

[dclary]

"Not all people who dodged the draft or refused to go were punk asses. Ali could've lost his life in the ring."

Elvis did his time. Ali was a punk-ass.

[roscoegino]

I'm not talking about D Ali from HBO. I'm referring to the boxer.

[Insanity In A Jar]

Forget about it, roscoe. It's Clarytown.

[RBoss]

No love for the Civil War?

Glory
Gone With the Wind
Gettysburg
Dances With Wolves (sort of)
The General
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Why do they all start with G? Weird :confused:

[Architeuthis Dux]

Remember: The US won the physical ground war in Vietnam. By a huge margin. The only place we lost was in our own psyche, thanks to the media, the peaceniks, and the communist insurgents within those groups.

I thought it had more to do with LBJ micromanaging the war and interfering so much with military operations as to make the war unwinnable.

But more to the point, WWII movies are better. Anyone mention suspense classics like Eye of the Needle or The Man Who Never Was?

And another thing. The Kurosawa-directed portions of Tora Tora Tora are just brilliant.

[Biohazard]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Gone With The Wind is a civil war movie. The war is more of a background thought rather than being the main focus of the film. It's like calling The Wizard of Oz a disaster movie just because there's a tornado.

[DeeRCee]

More Vietnam movies...

We Were Soldiers
Heaven and Earth

[Authorized]

It's like calling The Wizard of Oz a disaster movie just because there's a tornado. :)

[Pen Dragon]

More titles to seal the win for WW2

The Longest Day
Catch-22
The Story of GI Joe
Empire of the Sun
1941
Battleground
The Guns of Navarone
A Guy Named Joe
Destination Tokyo
Merrill's Marauders
Heaven Knows Mr. Allison
Hell in the Pacific
Sands of Iwo Jima
A Walk in the Sun
Go For Broke!
Decision Before Dawn
The Secret of Santa Vittoria
Victory
Band of Brothers
They Were Expendable
Thirty Seconds over Tokyo

[dpaterso]

I'm voting WWII, because a lot of watchable movies about WWII came out during WWII, not afterward. Sure, you might dismiss them as propanda films, but those were desperate times whereby the cause was right, the enemy was clearly identifiable and evil, and the outcome was by no means certain. Most films from those other wars were made after the event with selective hindsight and often with only entertainment and profit in mind, with a mild seasoning of radical politics sprinkled for good measure. WWII it is.

-Derek
Derek's Web Page - stories, screenplays, novels, insanity. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57/scripts.htm)

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[wolfy262]

> Remember: The US won the physical ground war in Vietnam. By a huge
> margin. The only place we lost was in our own psyche, thanks to the media, > the peaceniks, and the communist insurgents within those groups.



Ah, revisionist history.

The VC's war aim was to expel American forces and achieve Communist domination. Whatever their losses, they achieved that.

I think you'll find that counts as a win for the bad guys.

[Animus Zaphodius]

Two recent WWII films are The Pianist (Adrian Brody won best actor in) and Der Untergang (Downfall) is an incredible account of Hitlers last days before he committed suicide. Both are exceptional films. Much better than Saving Private Ryan.

[dclary]

Wolfy, agreed. We won on the battlefield. We lost on paper, and in reality. It's sad, but true. But I'll never let it be said that the war was lost. It was the peace that we lost.

[Biohazard]

Two recent WWII films are The Pianist (Adrian Brody won best actor in) and Der Untergang (Downfall) is an incredible account of Hitlers last days before he committed suicide. Both are exceptional films. Much better than Saving Private Ryan.

Haven't seen Downfall, but The Pianist was great. How I forgot about it, I'll never know...but I don't believe that it's any better than SPR.

[refriedwhiskey]

We won on the battlefield. We lost on paper, and in reality. It's sad, but true. But I'll never let it be said that the war was lost. It was the peace that we lost.
So we failed to achieve our objective, and the enemy achieved its objective -- but because we killed more people than they did, we secretly won the war?

Classic.

"We didn't lose Vietnam! It was a tie!" - A Fish Called Wanda

Kevin Kline won an Oscar for playing that hilarious character. :rolling:

[dclary]

It's the only war in world history where one nation achieved every military objective they attempted, defended successfully against every enemy military offensive, a peace was negotiated on their terms, and because of internal anti-governmental forces at home, was not allowed to defend the terms of that peace, and therefore was declared a loss.

The Vietnam War proved that leftists and liberals hate America, and are only happy when it loses, even when it wins.

[refriedwhiskey]

Oh, brudda. We can only be one post away from the words "silent majority."

[Deus Ex Machine]

anti-governmental forces at home

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Isn't the US government supposed to be a government of the people, for the people?

If the people didn't want the military to do something, shouldn't the government and the military obey the will of the people?

Would you be happier if the Government and the military had no obligation to obey the will of the people?

[dclary]

Not when the will of the people is being manipulated by communists and anti-american insurgents, through the media, with every intention of knocking down and destroying our nation and thwarting its goals.

Wilson forced a media lockdown. Roosevelt forced a media lockdown. President after President have stifled the 1st Amendment during wartime in order to secure the rights of Americans to have the 1st Amendment during peacetime.

In the Vietnam war, they did not, and the enemies of America used that against us.

Just as they are today, in Iraq.

[refriedwhiskey]

David Clary, you are a living caricature. :D

[prescribe22]

Sniff. Sniff.

What is that smell? It kinda smells like.... One on One in here. :eek:

[refriedwhiskey]

No, I think you just stepped in something on your trip through the corral. :rolling:

[Deus Ex Machine]

I see. So the government knows best. Anyone who disagrees with the government is an enemy of the country. When American lives and billions of tax payer dollars are on the line, that is the time when the government should be the least accountable to the people.

Got ya.

[dclary]

When it comes to deciding how and where our military is used? Yeah, the government knows best. Certainly knows better than a bunch of hippies and peaceniks, or anti-capitalist communists intent on breaking the nation.

This is such a no-brainer it's amazing to see how the pot-smoking beat-poetry cowards of the 60s have brainwashed and thwarted the generations who came after. It's a travesty that the greatest foe America ever faced, and who clearly we lost to, came from within our own borders, in the guise of "concerned citizens."

[captain bligh]

so when japan bombed pearl harbor, it knew best? and when germany invaded poland, it knew best? those governments decided that was what should be done.* or does the logic only apply to your government? and if so, why? why are those military decisions open to critical analyses but the actions of the government you have some control over are not? i really don't understand your logic.

i think the citizens of a country have a duty to question their government's decisions, military and otherwise, particularly in a republic where they can affect change.















_________
*and boy am i not comparing those military actions to our own in any way other than that they were military actions of governments.

[Deus Ex Machine]

Being unarmed and fired on by police and national guardsman were the acts of cowards?



Having police dogs attack you and being beaten with clubs were the acts of cowards.



Enduring threatening phone calls, illegal government sanctioned invasion of their privacy were the acts of cowards?



Refusing to be intimidated and surrender your values and beliefs were the acts of cowards?



You and I have two very different definitions of the word, coward.

[dclary]

I don't think the protesters were cowards, Deus. Nor the students. I think the cowards were the forces behind the scenes manipulating the protestors, influencing the students, setting the agenda for the media.



Bligh, point taken. I was generalizing, and it is the right of the opposing side in a debate to point out any singularities that negate a generality.



Let's agree to disagree on the Vietnam War, its results, and the reasons for those results. Let's get back on topic and all agree that WWII has produced the best movies.

[dclary]

You must be crazy. In those movies the fascists are the bad guys.

Or are you rooting for the Nazis?

Do you even know what a fascist is? Or do you have to check the DU dicktionary?

[refriedwhiskey]

Clary, I can't for the life of me imagine you enjoying a movie where fascists are depicted as bad guys. Every time you write one word about politics, you're a fascist's wet dream.

[dclary]

You must speak with a lisp.

I am a fattist. Not a fascist.

Let me erudiate you:


Fascist: an adherent of fascism (fascinating, isn't it? Let's see what that means!)

Fascism: A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Well, let's see. I'm against dictators, for the free market, against terror, against censorship, and against racism.

Oh, but I am definitely a belligerent nationalist. Go USA!

So, there you go. I'm not nearly as good a fascist as you hoped I'd be. Thanks for playing.

[bwdial]

It definitely comes down to WWII and Vietnam.

I would say that Grenada and the Falklands Islands wars are non-starters along with the War on Poverty.


Hel-loooooooooo?!?!

Heartbreak Ridge?!?!

How Mario Van Peebles didn't get an Oscar nod for that is beyond me.

;)

[refriedwhiskey]

I'm glad you went to the dictionary, clary:

Fascism: A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Does the picture become clearer?

You continually show yourself to be all about unquestioning loyalty to our rulers. You even believe the time when a government should least be questioned by its people is when it is using its military might. You clearly believe anyone who expresses opposition to the government is unpatriotic and traitorous. You are the most belligerent nationalist I have ever encountered, and you have repeatedly evinced a deep and abiding fear of other races.

Your picture should be next to that definition, dude.

[dclary]

Fascism: A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Wow, talk about taking things out of context. Nice way to only use the words that fit your designs.

The full phrases are: centralization of authority under a dictator - which I most definitely do not believe in. I'm a big fan of democracy and representative governments.

suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship - I have never condoned terror, for any purpose, or any goal. I believe that free speech should be exercised with responsibility, but given that caveat, that there should be no restrictions on what a man can say or publish.

belligerent nationalism and racism. Well, I am a belligerent nationalist. How could you not be, when you live in the greatest nation on earth? I'm a racist, too, as I've said before: I think that Human Beings are the greatest race ever.



Honestly, refried. I'd have expected a half-assed attack like this from Twobit, but you're better than this. Was that just a warning shot?

[refriedwhiskey]

Wow, talk about taking things out of context. Nice way to only use the words that fit your designs.
What, you mean like you did with "dictators," "terror," and "censorship" when you first posted the definition? :rolling:

Wow. You really aren't very self-aware, are you? It's like you write something, then have zero memory of writing it.

Or is this just more of the double-standard stuff you've already demonstrated here? X, Y, and Z are fine for you, until someone else uses them in a way you don't like.

Weak sauce, Dave. Like chili verde made in New Jersey.

[dclary]

That's just low, man.

Low.

[Pen Dragon]

It's the only war in world history where one nation achieved every military objective they attempted, defended successfully against every enemy military offensive, a peace was negotiated on their terms, and because of internal anti-governmental forces at home, was not allowed to defend the terms of that peace, and therefore was declared a loss.

The Vietnam War proved that leftists and liberals hate America, and are only happy when it loses, even when it wins.

Thanks for just making me sh*it a brick, dclary.

[Pen Dragon]

And now for the real definition of

FASCISM: a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

[Pen Dragon]

Why did everyone leave out The Boys in Company C on their Vietnam lists?

[refriedwhiskey]

Is it good?

[Pen Dragon]

It's anti-war so dclary wouldn't have much use for it. It's not a masterpiece but definitely has moments.

[refriedwhiskey]

How does it compare to The Green Berets? That was a fine, fine Vietnam movie. The Duke up there on screen, protecting Democracy against them little, yellow reds!

A rare realistic depiction of the action in Southeast Asia, I'm sure Clary would say.

You know what Vietnam flick I thought was pretty good (besides the obvious ones, I mean) is 84 Charlie MoPic.

[Pen Dragon]

I love John Wayne. That Green Beret movie you mentioned doesn't exist. It's a myth. The Duke would never have sunk that low.

Besides, it was shot in Georgia. It wasn't really a Vietnam movie

dclary's favorite Vietnam movie 110% is Uncommon Valour. I'd wager a box of hand grenades on it.

Missing in Action and Rambo 2 were runners up

[refriedwhiskey]

I was going to ask about Rambo 2, yeah. :D

Honestly, I love John Wayne's work, too. Or at least his good western movies, of which there are loads. I may not be the perfect Duke fan, though, because I really think The Searchers is overrated, but I'll shoot anyone who thinks The Shootist wasn't great.

If Eastwood and Wayne had ever made a movie together...man. I don't know how that would work, but I'd have the DVD.

[Erehwon]

the Boys In Company C is great.

But give me Apocalypse Now, and Full Metal Jacket. Filled with all that P**sy, leftist, commie, peacenic, bullsh*t that clary hates. Hey, if Clary thinks it's wrong, then you know that it's right!

[Pen Dragon]

Refried -

http://www.grudge-match.com/History/western.shtml

[refriedwhiskey]

:rolling:

Yeah, I have to give the edge to Clint, too. Not because of his youth or anything of that junk, but because his characters have always had insane handgun skillz. If he has a pistol with six rounds in it, six bad guys are dead before they can slap leather. It's part of his mythos, spanning most of his western movies.

Duke was a great western hero, but him vs. Clint in a shootout isn't a match.

[Pen Dragon]

Clint would stand no chance in an exchange of right crosses

[refriedwhiskey]

True, true. The Duke would give him the old "I ain't gonna...hit ya, pilgrim. I ain't gonna hit ya."

And then BOOM!

He was a big guy.

[Pen Dragon]

Best belt to the mouth I've ever seen on celluloid - The Duke taking out some villain in Tall in the Saddle. If he had really connected with that punch the guy's head would have been the first American satellite in space. John Wayne would have been given a wide berth in the real old west, I have no doubt.

[refriedwhiskey]

Yeah, he was the quintessential Big American Hero who didn't need to say a lot because everybody was scared of him.

And Eastwood is the quintessential Badass American Hero who scares everybody because he's too quiet. :D

[refriedwhiskey]

You know, now that I think of it, those two characterizations kind of say something about their respective eras. :rolling:

[Pen Dragon]

The Duke was America when decency, fair dealing, responsibility and accountabilty were aspired to

Clint became America when operating in the gray area, obsession over body counts, and counting the money before lifting a finger rose out of the crater everyone aspiring to Duke's America left in the desert floor.

[refriedwhiskey]

I want to agree, but it makes the Man with No Name sound so bad. The Man with No Name was no venal conservative! He helped out strange women just because he thought they were nuns!

[Pen Dragon]

clint is the american anti-hero...he wants to get rich, get laid, get drunk, and every action he takes is driven by that simple code. if he does any good by anyone it's strictly a byproduct of him gratifying himself. selflessness to clint is asking how big and how full the money box is before he agrees to help save the village.

Clint is cynical. He doesn't even tell you his name.

Clint's a Libertine

[refriedwhiskey]

Fvckin' A, man!

Yeah, that's why I love Clint's western hero so much.

Honestly, to use the movie I referred to, it's really made pretty clear he's not just helping the nun because she's a nun -- it's because she's young and pretty and he's been out in the desert for a long time. and maybe he can even sense she's not really a nun. Heh.

I still love the Duke, though. Just for different reasons.

[Pen Dragon]

two mules for sister sara is a hoot. Clint's best ever performance in my opinion. He's like Han Solo's great great great great great great granpappy in it.

[dclary]

Pen, UV is my favorite post-vietnam film (followed closely by R:FB2, and MIA2).

So you win a box of hand grenades!

My favorite actually-in-vietnam movie is Good Morning Vietnam.

It's funny.

[Pen Dragon]

i didn't dig it

[billmarq]

it's amazing to see how the pot-smoking beat-poetry cowards of the 60s have brainwashed and thwarted the generations who came after

Actually, beat guru Jack Kerouac, author of On the Road, was a supporter of the Vietnam war. Strange, huh?

WWII has the best films, but also the worst, except for Coming Home which is the absolute worst film ever about a war although not strictly a war film.

[Hessian]

Someone call Homeland Insecurity. This thread has been hijacked by elephant ridding insurgents!



So anyway. WW2 by a long way.



Battle of Britain.

Sink the Bismarck.

Cross of Iron.

Tora, Tora, Tora.

How I won the war.

Stalingrad.

The Tuskegee Airmen.

Run Silent, Run Deep.

Merry Christmas, Mister Lawrence.

Flying Leathernecks.

Caine Mutiny.

The Dam Busters.



The list goes on.

[SethMace]

I think the war between the Rebels & The Empire had the best movies.


I wont get banned from here for that attempted joke will I?:(

[dclary]

No.

We'll just taunt you incessantly.

:p