Crash

[MacG]

Does Paul Haggis even know the meaning of the word "subtlety"? If he wins the Oscar for Best Screenplay this year, he'll have leapfrogged over Akiva to become the most overrated writer in Hollywood.

[dclary]

They haven't seen me yet.

[MacG]

:rolling:

Tru dat, Dave!

[Salazkin]

For reference, an earlier thread on this film: http://scriptsales.com/boards/showthread.php?t=9427&page=1&pp=10&highlight=crash from which I'll repeat my observations (I copy my own previous post, if you'll permit me):

Awesome film. By typical story-telling standards, it relied WAY too heavily on (1) coincidences, and (2) character epiphanies. But: it wasn't your typical story. It wasn't a story, but a collection of vignettes. Therefore, it ought not to be judged on the basis of classic storytelling.

The film was hugely ambitious in attempting to convey the full range of humanity, both in the different walks of life, but also in the complexity of our souls. For example, how the same person can be capable of acts both despicable and heroic. No character was portrayed in black and white (truly no pun intended).

The ONLY way this ambitious endeavor could possibly be accomplished in the timeframe of a film is to rely on what I identified above: Coincidence and epiphany.

Coincidence allows one to present material in a very highly condensed manner. It permitted the inclusion of several characters, as was needed.

Epiphany permits characters to grow and evolve without the usual gradations in their development throughout the course of a story. Thus, most of the characters could be thought to have an arc (they did grow, after all), even if it wasn't presented in its entirety.

Definitely a different kind of film. And far and away the best of its kind to date.

Quote:
Pencey. My problem wasn't with them carjacking the black guy. It was obvious they realized their mistake (carjacking a brother), but felt compelled to follow through with the crime. What didn't ring true to me was that the kindness of a black man led the ghetto kid to be nice to Asians.


I sort of felt this way about much of it, Hairy. Like I said above, though -- I file it under "epiphany". When the Terrence Howard character dropped off the carjacking black dude on the corner, his last words to him were: "you embarrass me. you embarrass yourself." It could be argued that this was his epiphany. His letting the Chinese go was his hope for redemption; a hope to no longer be an embarrassment.

The script is definitely worthy of accolades and awards, arguably the highest award. My 2 cents.

[Pencey]

Does Paul Haggis even know the meaning of the word "subtlety"? If he wins the Oscar for Best Screenplay this year, he'll have leapfrogged over Akiva to become the most overrated writer in Hollywood.

I agree it's not subtle but it was still damn good writing. Much more deserving of an Oscar then Sophia Coppola's Lost In Translation.

[MacG]

From now on, I guess I'll have to agree to disagree with most people on the subject of Haggis....

[NoTalentAssClown]

From now on, I guess I'll have to agree to disagree with most people on the subject of Haggis....

I'm with you, on this particular film anyway.

[PNChheda]

I'm with you, on this particular film anyway

Me too.

[roscoegino]

From now on, I guess I'll have to agree to disagree with most people on the subject of Haggis....

Though I did enjoy ABM, I can take Paul's brand of "over the top" to Akiva's any day.

Crash ain't perfect. All that yelling wasn't necessary to put forth its message. Still, I would be surprised if it did not get nominated for Best Picture come January.

[Hairy Lime]

Given how weak this year's been for quality films, Crash stands out. It might have been forgettable last year, but not this one.

[Pencey]

More competition is on the way though, I'm sure. Summer is over and that means more dramas and less fluff for the rest of '05.

[jellyjilly]

Me too.

Another CRASH hater reporting for duty.

I had a post deleted on another well-known film forum for calling a CRASH lover "clueless and sexist." tee hee!

[tabula rasa]

I love me that CRASH movie. Now I understand what it means to be a black man in America, the everyday struggle under the Man.

Terence Howard, man. Those eyes.

I'm not joking, it touched me.

It's like the flipside, the dark version of LOVE, ACTUALLY. Evil coincidence. It's ABOUT evil coincidence fed by racism.

loved Crash.

[yvonnjanae]

You had to see "Crash" to understand racism in America?

[esdavis88]

If this wins best screenplay does PTA get to accept it along with Haggis?

[Pencey]

Why?

[Biohazard]

If this wins best screenplay does PTA get to accept it along with Haggis?

In case you haven't noticed, Magnolia is a Short Cuts rip-off no more than Crash is a Magnolia rip-off.

[Pencey]

In case you haven't noticed, Magnolia is a Short Cuts rip-off no more than Crash is a Magnolia rip-off.

The only similarities I find between Magnolia and Crash is that both explore the theme of "redemption". Crash though is much more about showing the good and the bad in people, the black and the white, if you will. Redemption just happened to be a by-product of that theme.

Other than that, they are completely different stories. That's what I got from it anyway.

[tabula rasa]

You had to see "Crash" to understand racism in America?

Hey, whoa -- why you gotta bring 'racism' into it, man ?!?

I didn't say anything about race!

I thought it was about class war!

[alipali]

Fvck subtle. Who buys subtle? Subtle is one of those fantasies unpaid screenwriters maintain as an excuse why they haven't sold.

This was a great piece of dramatic writing.

It worked.

End of story.

[kintnerboy]

Wanted to like this a whole bunch, but

it actually might be one of the worst films of the year.

It wasn't the loosely strung together series of unbelievable coincidences masqarading as a plot, or the sociology 101 manifesto as dialogue that made me not like it.

It was the fact that so much effort was put into this and the filmmaker really didn't even have anything to say about anything, other than people can be both great and terrible.

Super.

[Pencey]

Wanted to like this a whole bunch, but

it actually might be one of the worst films of the year.

It wasn't the loosely strung together series of unbelievable coincidences masqarading as a plot, or the sociology 101 manifesto as dialogue that made me not like it.

It was the fact that so much effort was put into this and the filmmaker really didn't even have anything to say about anything, other than people can be both great and terrible.

Super.

Hyperbole.

[kintnerboy]

Hyperbole.

Nugatory.

[Tipjar]

Quote:
Pencey. My problem wasn't with them carjacking the black guy. It was obvious they realized their mistake (carjacking a brother), but felt compelled to follow through with the crime. What didn't ring true to me was that the kindness of a black man led the ghetto kid to be nice to Asians.

Pulling the man from underneath the Navigator? To avoid a murder rap. Dumping him at the hospital. Maybe a stretch. Freeing the 'laotian' cargo after having been offered $500 a head for them? Obviously a choice of not becoming himself a slave trader; and oppression is something his character had been vocalizing against the entire movie. Plausible from that perspective, I think.

[agitprop]

From now on, I guess I'll have to agree to disagree with most people on the subject of Haggis....


Tried once when I was in Scotland. Never again.






######

[MacG]

Tried once when I was in Scotland. Never again.

I was wondering when someone was gonna latch onto that phrasing!

[yeehi]

Coincidence allows one to present material in a very highly condensed manner. It permitted the inclusion of several characters, as was needed.

Epiphany permits characters to grow and evolve without the usual gradations in their development throughout the course of a story. Thus, most of the characters could be thought to have an arc (they did grow, after all), even if it wasn't presented in its entirety.


:cool: