Why don't Nicholl semifinalists attract agents? [Archive]

Bill Rectal

09-09-2004, 05:17 AM

Because most of the scripts are boring. Hell, most of the winning scripts are boring. Finding Forrester was one of the most boring, pedestrian, silly, inane piles of horse hockey I've ever read.

When are you people going to learn. Contests are no better than playing the numbers racket. A few like Max Adams successfully parlayed her win into a career, but if you're counting on contests your counting yourself out.

Think about this: 99.999% of all successful, represented screenwriters did NOT become so by winning a contest. Forget contests. There's only one way to win this war...in the trenches.

Augie Kestrel

09-09-2004, 05:59 AM

"Think about this: 99.999% of all successful, represented screenwriters did NOT become so by winning a contest. Forget contests."

That's all you need to know.

JSomm

09-09-2004, 07:01 AM

I agree with Olga -- it would seem an agent and or producer is looking for material that makes people wanna shell out $10 and goto the movies. Even if a script won a contest - even a big one -- if it's not commercial I doubt it'll be requested and or bought (there are exceptions of course). But in general commercial material seems to be key. The next "Liar, Liar" might not win a context but if an exec and or agent thinks it'll put butts in a seat...it's got a shot more than an award winning slice of life script.

LauriD

09-09-2004, 10:54 AM

OK then, how DID 99.9999% of sucessful writers become sucessful writers? What exactly are we supposed to be doing down there in the trenches, other than putting our work out there every way we can?

[And one might note that Finding Forrester, whatever its defects (and I didn't see it) got SOLD and MADE. So did Arlington Road and a number of other Nicholl-winning scripts; just check their website.]

I absolutely agree that script contests are a numbers racket. But if you never buy a lottery ticket you're never going to win the lottery.

Doing well in contests gets people exposure. I know a recent Nicholl winner, and she got an agent and dozens of meetings out of it -- not a sale (yet) but a foot in the door that many others don't have. Most other Nicholl winners/finalists seem to have similar experiences. Some do very well for themselves -- last year's Nicholl winner Bragi Schut sold two scripts; someone who came in second in Scriptapalooza this year sold that script as a result of a judge's read during the contest -- another opening he might not have found otherwise.

And, BTW, I understand that even semi-finalists can get a dozen or more script requests.

So why bad-mouth (legit) contests? They're long shots but so is every other way of launching a career that I know about. Tell me about one that's NOT a long shot -- please!

LauriD
(2004 Nicholl semifinalist - non-boring script provided on request)

filmcarver

09-09-2004, 11:50 AM

Contests are important in the way they give writers who bear small chance of ever competing as a top writer a place to expose their material and get at least some recognition at some level, hopefully at a higher one.

Any subsequent success will always be related to the quality of the writer and writing more than the placement in the contest. Of course this is too logical for some to believe.

Bill Rectal

09-09-2004, 12:47 PM

I'm not bad-mouthing contests. I said if you're counting on contests to break in you're counting yourself out. I was bad-mouthing the scripts that win contests. I've read scripts that have won or made the finals in prestigious contests that would make a pro laugh out loud. Many times they're technically sound, but just horredously trite or formulaic. Just total snoozers. Not even worthy of the most pathetic movie of the week. In contrast, I've read lots of scripts that don't even place that would make kick-ass movies. Actually, I guess I am bad-mouthing contests. The judging processes are invariably flawed.

The bottom line is, forget contests. If you believe in your script, do whatever you have to do to get legitimate industry people to read it. The more the better. Hell, I'd advocate paying some of the more well-known so-called consulting arms of managment firms to read your script before throwing your money away on contests.

creativexec

09-09-2004, 02:54 PM

Some contests serve a good purpose.

Nicholl, Chesterfield, Disney, WB, and
PGL (which produces the winning script)
are the handful of contests that translate
well in the business.

Winning one of these contests is great -
mostly because they all entail a healthy
cash prize, have earned some industry
respect and provide exposure.

But in the grand scope of things, winning a
contest means that your script was (deemed)
the best of all the other amateur scripts
submitted.

But can it compare with scripts by Scott Frank,
Steve Zaillian or John Logan? Because in
the real world - out of the contest womb -
it will have to.

Since many execs have failed to see greatness
coming out of contests (most of the contest
material I read sucks), they wait until the
winners are announced and then pounce. (It's
less dreck they have to siphon through.)

However, winning a contest does not ensure
representation. Many Nicholl winners are not
repped and have had no professional success
beyond their cash prize and pats on the back.

On the other hand, there are semi-finalists who
have very healthy careers.

There are some agents and managers and
producers that will prowl semi-finalists in a
contest like Nicholl.

Smart reps looking for talent and material
will do it during the semi-finalist stage when
competition among reps isn't as great.

But agents have scores of ways to find
new writers and material. Contests are simply
one way. And not necessarily the most
effective/efficient way.

I'm no big fan of the contest circuit.

For the most part, it's a sleazy, cannibalistic
fringe industry that does the contest more
good than the writer.

Although winning a contest like Nicholl may
not help your career, it won't hurt it. (And
it does put 30K in your pocket - which is
more than most writers will EVER make in this
biz.)

A good rule of thumb with contests is: the
bigger the cash prize, the more worthy the
contest. Any contest that offers enigmatic
industry exposure only, or a few hundred
bucks, or "Final Draft" is hardly worth it.
(This encompasses 99% of all contests.)

There are too many writers making contests
their full-time pursuit. Since only the ones
mentioned above have any real clout, a
writer needs to pursue other avenues for
points of entry.

You should not be waiting for agents to
contact you, you need to be pursuing
them.

:D

LauriD

09-09-2004, 03:05 PM

CE:

What is your preferred method of being pursued by, say, a Nicholl semi-finalist? ;) Many agencies return query letters unopened... :( How about a lovely fruit basket with a script enclosed? :)

LauriD

Hamboogul

09-09-2004, 03:43 PM

AJ,

There's the secondary part to this. Let's do the math.

Every year there are... let's say, 300 Nicholl semi-finalists.

Add another 30 Austin semi-finalists, another 100 Chesterfield semi-finalists, 100 Disney semi-finalists... BTW, I'm making up the numbers.

In sum, there are 1,000 who advance to top 5 percent of one of the bigger contests, let's say. Among them, maybe 5 may eventually sell a script or two.

So they have to wade through 200 scripts to find one gem? I think in terms of energy it takes, it is not the best use of their time given that they could use that time to:

1) cultivate relationships with producers and creative executives to find out what projects might be available for their current clients.

2) help develop material for their current clients who are already industry-exposed and have fans in the industry.

3) read scripts that were referred to them (from their clients, executives, etc.)

But it's not worth despairing. If you write a great script, you will eventually get attention from someone. You may not sell it or even have a career but you will get discovered. Focus your energies on developing that semi-finalist script into a Nicholl fellowship winner. Re-allocate the time you spend on querying agents toward reading good scripts written by the likes of Cameron Crowe, Scott Frank, John Logan, Paul Attanasio, et. al.

09-09-2004, 04:25 PM

creativexec

09-09-2004, 05:29 PM

Never over-estimate ANY script, AJ.

Do not assume that because a script wins
a contest, sells for a million dollars, or earns
the writer an agent that it is any good.

I'm not a believer in the notion that great
scripts are the only kinds of scripts that
sell. I read them all and speak from
experience.

More often than not, a script wins a
contest, or sells, or earns an agent because
it is the "right" script.

:D

Ravenlocks01

09-09-2004, 08:39 PM

Winning one of these contests is great -
mostly because they all entail a healthy
cash prize,
Hear hear!

:)

Winter in New York

09-10-2004, 04:15 AM

Re-post of my thoughts on the subject from a different thread:

-------------------------
Getting a half dozen calls at QF (?) or SF stage wanting to see your script is great. Unexpected, but great!

However, 2-6 calls from what are probably lower end execs (at legitimate companies mind you) is nothing compared to the 100 - 150 calls you'll get if you reach the final and the Academy publish the contact list.

I guess all I'm saying is that don't expect your life to turn on a dime, just because you hit the QF or SF stage. Because as wonderful as that is (and it is) it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

(Though it looks good on your resume, and helps with your confidence!)

At QF and SF stage (and if truth be known, even if you're a Finalist / Fellow) YOU have to be pro-active as all hell to get the best out of the experience.

Just ask all those Fellows / Finalists who get the week in the Merv Griffin Beverly Hilton...get the week of meetings'n madness...but then shuffle off back home afterwords WITHOUT so much as an agent to their name...

Maybe 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 Fellows / Finalists go home empty handed (notwithstanding the wonderful experience they've had). And if you don't find that statistic scary, then read it again. Because it's real sobering.

And if those are the odds (and they are) of getting nowhere even after getting to the final / getting your name published in the trades by the Academy...then don't you think that's all the more reason to be as pro-active as you can, at QF and SF stage?

We have to make it happen ourselves. At the end of the day, our own sweat (and a bit of faith in the guy upstairs) is all we ever have.

Winter in New York

sc111

09-10-2004, 08:54 AM

CE:

You say we shoud pursue agents.

How?

When the majority of agencies (including yours)
clearly state they do not accept unsolicited queries?

:)

captain bligh

09-10-2004, 09:56 AM

here is my experience. i wrote a script in 2002 for the nicholl, it was a quarterfinalist. nothing came of it at all. period. a few managers contacted me, one even wanted to hip pocket me (big manager, too), but nothing happened with the script.

i entered two scripts in the 2003 nicholl competition. the same script advanced (which i thought was not the better of the two), this time to the semifinals. again, a few managers contacted me, as well as a producer (who, after reading my script wanted me to write some work for hire thing, but we had contractual disagreements and i walked away). nothing happened with the managers.

around this time (late 2003/early 2004) two different writers referred me to their representatives. i sent my new script to both of them; the new script was by far the strongest and most commercial script i have written, and one of those writers' agents wanted to take me on.

however, the agent (i felt) was not the right agent for me. nice guy, smart agent, not right for me. so i contacted some agents on my own (25 letters), introduced myself, gave a logline, and waited. two weeks later i had five requests. a month after that i had two more offers of representation. i met with the two agents and decided on one.

so, march of this year i got an agent. my agent sent my script out (it didn't sell), i took a bunch of meetings, a director was briefly attached, i am in the midst of being considered for some adaptation work (we'll see), and i'm developing a project with a very good producer at sony. in other words, i've seen no money, but things are progressing, and my next script is going out this month.

so when may rolled around i decided to enter by newest and best and most commercial script in the nicholl. and nothing. not even the quarterfinals. it was knocked out in the first round.

now i think the nicholl fellowship competition is one of the few good competitions; it and austin are the only two i've ever entered. all i'm saying is, the qualities that help a script advance in the nicholl (or any competition) are not necessarily the same qualities that get a script attention in the real world of agents, producers and studios.

the one script of mine that two years in a row advanced in the nicholl went nowhere in the industry, and the script of mine that got me three different offers of representation and some industry recognition went literally nowhere in the nicholl.

so, yeah. there's that.

09-10-2004, 11:27 AM

your post makes the point so well c b
i love what you wrote
your fate is up to you ... and with ce's addition, 4,001 intangible factors that you have less control over ... interesting

love2code

09-10-2004, 01:38 PM

I guess I've overestimated the quality of those 'winning' scripts ... otherwise how would they make it that far??? ... so the idea that a script that made it that far doesn't even attract an agent is just shocking to me ... But almost all contests have winners and semi-finalists based on number of entries no matter what. So if a contest had 5000 crappy scripts, the best of the crappy scripts would advance but they'd still be crap. At the same time if a contest were to claim only good quality scripts would advance which could allow for no winners, then no one would enter it.

Now of course for the most part this doesn't happen, but most people on here have read some bad writing from someone you'd think has no chance. Well that person is still eligible to enter any contest for a modest fee just like you. So they are at the same level playing field as you would be.

Pooks

09-10-2004, 09:21 PM

I posted this elsewhere but figured I'd post it here, too.

The first time I entered the Nicholl, my script was a SF.

As soon as I got the letter that it was a QF I got on the phone and started cold calling people, trying to get them to read it. I sent out queries. I got a few requests. By the time I got the SF letter, I picked up the pace and made more calls and sent more letters.

Two significant things happened. One small potatoes producer requested the script from the Nicholl list, and asked for permission to show it to a director. Before long the director was attached, an Oscar-winning actress was attached, other actors were attached. And the producer referred me to a solid agent, who started repping me.

Nothing came of any of that, but it kept me writing.

In the meantime, one of my cold calls ended up paying off because the guy was an asst. at ICM at the time, helped me with advice over the years, and today is still a key advisor and support.

A lot of luck involved there. A good script. But the most important thing that happened, the thing that still exists, is that contact that is still around today, and that was from me hustling, not from me sitting back waiting for people to call me.

DUCPHO

09-11-2004, 10:17 AM

An actor friend once told me that being the least bit successful in the entertainment industry, as a whole, but especially your entree, was far more a matter of luck and more akin to winning the lottery than to your talent alone.:D

Once your in a situation whereby your being considered for any worthwhile entertainment project, it's already assumed and acknowledged that you are talented in your chosen field, but many people are talented!:eek

He said that when you find yourself at a point where your actually competing in the race, you find the other runners have become very fast indeed!:lol

Words of wisdom from Ducpho, as relayed to him via the actor that played the killer in "I Know What You Did Last Summer"!;)

P.S. For those naysayer's that would complain that this actor never even revealed his face until the end of the sequel bespeaks an ignorance about the industry and a lack of knowledge as to how things really operate. >D

Yes, he took the part and he never had his face revealed until the end of act three of the sequel, however, he has nearly fifty features to his credit and eats very well!:rollin

Unca Leo

09-11-2004, 11:17 AM

Didn't he reveal his face near the end of the first movie on the boat with JLH?

sidneyfalco

09-11-2004, 04:25 PM

Creativexec is right - there are few legitmate contests and even Nichols no longer has the luster it had 10-15 years ago thanks to the multitude of money making schemers. The problem is everyone is cashing in on the screenwriting contest trend to make money - and winning one doesn't mean much.

Also, people are correct in saying that winning a contest has nothing to do with selling a script. In fact, I think that industry contests like PGL and Nichols are set up by people to choose and promote screenplays which would never sell in the first place.

Case in point: my experience. Starting out my career 10 years ago there were only 3 contests. Nichols, Chester, Disney:

script #1: nichols semi-finalist two years in a row. I am excited. Move out to LA. No sale. A few calls.

script #2: nichols LOSER. Disney LOSER. Chesterfield LOSER....

Agent likes SCRIPT... eventually it SELLS for mid-six and goes into pre-production (but is eventually cancelled)

If you're going to spend money on contests... SAVE IT. The internet allows us information to navigate the wildnernes of production companies and agents and managers. Save that entry fee and sign up for baseline and HCD. You'll be much better off.

Its the difference between playing a dumb game of slots or playing a smart game of blackjack.

DUCPHO

09-11-2004, 04:37 PM

Ditto Syd,;) in the real world a contest win means relatively little, been there, done that! It can't hurt if mentioned and as long as it's a good one with a good rep, however, I would rather research addresses for potential production outlets rather than contest addresses.

Just my own opinion and personal experience.:smokin

LauriD

09-11-2004, 08:31 PM

I have heard from entertainment attorneys and agents that it is a BAD idea to go after prodcos directly because:

Unless you go in with the "heat" of a known agent/manager backing you, you will likely be ignored at best -- at worst, your script will get nasty coverage from some reader who figures that if it was any good it would have come in through an agent (and who doesn't have to worry about pissing off the boss for dissing a name agent's script), the bad coverage gets on the tracking boards, and that script becomes toast. I.e., it's political: channels matter at least as much as quality.

Hence the Catch 22:

Most agents won't read a script without a referral from someone in the biz -- e.g., a producer.

But if you get the "wrong" reader and flame out, that script's down the toilet. Yes, you can always go on to the next one, but how many do you want to flush?

(This assume that you've written a script that DESERVES not to be flushed.)

Any comments?

LauriD

writer for life

09-11-2004, 09:23 PM

"I have heard from entertainment attorneys and agents that it is a BAD idea to go after prodcos directly because:"

Because they are agents and don't want you going out on your own because they wont get the 10% commission.

Read between the lines.

sidneyfalco

09-11-2004, 09:26 PM

"I have heard from entertainment attorneys and agents that it is a BAD idea to go after prodcos "

:lol gee I wonder why you heard that from agents and attorneys... maybe its because they are trying to scare you into using them so they can get their 10% (or 5%).

Of course, you have a MUCH BETTER chance of having your script sell/option if you use an agent because they go out everywhere at once. And then they coax those people into reading it over the weekend so they can hope ther's a bidding war.

Also if there is a relationship, priority given to reading your the script so it's not put on the slush pile that the interns read.

But make no mistake. Your script will not be better because you have and agent or worse because you don't.

Getting back to the topic: that is the THEORY behind a contest. It's a defacto agent. But in reality, the people who run contests do so for self-serving purposes so the material that's being filtered is not really the materials producers want (most of the time).

Remember, there is a great schism in Hollywood between what people like and think is good... and then what people want to buy. Contests and film festivals are about the former and agents are about the later.

love2code

09-12-2004, 12:04 AM

Because they are agents and don't want you going out on your own because they wont get the 10% commission.

Read between the lines. Yeah, it couldn't be that selling a spec in itself is hard, let alone trying to sell it w/o an agent pushing for it. Let's not forget the major factor that if you send it to all the top producers yourself somehow and later on you do get an agent that project is basically dead for the time being because the people the agent would try and convince to pick up the script already passed. But it's probably not any of those factors, they're just advising you to get an agent or lawyer for their commission. You should always try and get an agent, if you CAN'T then yes go hit up the producers, yes you should be proactive but the advice given about not sending it to a lot of producers w/o an agent is good advice.

Your script will not be better because you have and agent or worse because you don't. Yes it will, because the producers know when they get a script from a reputable agent, that the script has gone through at least some form of screening process and warrants a read. When a producer gets a query from an unknown writer, they don't know what to expect, and many times just end up wasting a lot of time. For every unknown writer that claims to have sold a script directly to a production company, I KNOW of agents selling dozens.

InvaderUjin

09-12-2004, 12:17 AM

I won a small-but-reputable contest a few years ago, and sent out the proof of the win with a couple query letters. One person flat out told me that the contest win moved me to the top of the slush pile.

The contest didn't get me a rep - but it did separate my query letter from the thousands of other ones they get. And it got my stuff read and repped.

Just my experience - your mileage may vary.

09-13-2004, 01:39 AM

so after digesting all of this, i conclude that contests -- in the minds of many -- are a waste of time ... doing well in one doesn't mean too much ... unless, of course, you're the last person who posted, who had a good experience after winning a contest ... hmmmm

is there 'really' such a disparity between the scripts that win or place in contests and the scripts that attract agents?

jimjimgrande

09-13-2004, 11:55 AM

"is there 'really' such a disparity between the scripts that win or place in contests and the scripts that attract agents?"

Oh yeah...there are huge differences - on many levels...

Pooks

09-13-2004, 12:15 PM

May I say quite respectfully that anybody who posts in absolutes (contests are a waste of time; contest scripts don't sell, etc.) is an idiot?

Thanks, I just needed to get that out of my system.

The point is, contests are a total waste of time, unless you're one of the ones who won a contest that launched your career.

"Contest scripts" don't fare well in the real world of Hollywood, except, of course, for the few that do.

The bottom line is:

The odds are greatly against anybody entering a contest, winning it, and it launching their career.

The odds are astronomically against anybody writing a script that gets produced or that makes them any significant money even if unproduced. So where does that leave us? The person who says "never enter a contest" might say "never write a script," because, after all, the odds suck.

Some people choose to enter competitions, and some have actually had success by doing that.

Do your homework, figure out if it's worth the thirty bucks to you to enter a competition, knowing you probably won't win.

But remember, every time you pick up the phone to cold call somebody, every time you hand a script to somebody to read, every time your script gets sent out to producers or talent, it's probably going to be a dead end.

My philosophy is, do everything. Seize every opportunity, just in case is IS the one that's going to break you through. You don't know until you try.

And my apologies in advance to anybody who has been posting in absolutes who is not an idiot. See? I posted an absolute, and already I'm realizing, "Except, of course, for those who aren't."

But honestly. "Contests are a waste of time" is a stupid statement, and one that only bears up to scrutiny if winning a competition has never resulted in someone getting writing assignments, getting representation, launching a career.

To say that winning a contest doesn't guarantee anything is realistic and honest. Saying entering is a waste of money because you're probably not going to win is an honest opinion. But to say point blank that it's always a waste of time? I think not.

And to get back to the original question here -- being a semifinalist may get you read. You may be able to make some phone calls and get somebody to read your script because you're a semifinalist. You may get more turndowns than not, but if you're willing to make a lot of cold calls you will probably get read by somebody, and then it's up to the script.

A contest win or placement can only open a door, and most of the time, you have to help that door get open. It's up to your script to carry the load after that.

KidCharlemagne108

09-13-2004, 01:36 PM

From www.filmjerk.com/nuke/article842.html (http://www.filmjerk.com/nuke/article842.html)

20 Questions Interview: Screenwriter Dayan Ballweg.
Written 02-27-2004 by DarwinMayflower

Dayan Ballweg adapted T.C. Boyle’s best-selling novel “The Tortilla Curtain” and Frank Baldwin’s “Jake and Mimi” for Scott Steindorff’s Stone Village Productions. His script “Young Americans” was optioned by Samuelson Productions and Gold Circle Films. In this interview he gives advice to young screenwriters, talks about the challenges of adaptations, the reality of screenwriting, and of a crazy development meeting with Gene Simmons (yes, the guy from KISS).

1) You were a finalist in the Nicholl Fellowship in Screenwriting contest, which helped you get a foot in the door. Do you think contests are a viable means for writers to break into the business?

Dayan Ballweg: Contests are a really great way for people who are not L.A. based to get their work seen and evaluated. While living in New York, I entered the Nicholl twice -- making it to the semifinals the first year, and the final ten the second -- and the Chesterfield once, where I got nothing but a lovely form letter.

The interesting thing about the contest scene is not so much the award/cash prize element; it's the people that lurk on the periphery. Producers that can't afford studio-level options start trolling these lists early in the process, and you would be surprised by the people that will make contact with you at various stages of the competition.

Some of these are good people with passion, but no money, and some of these are outright predators who will eat you alive and wear your skin. I have had my experiences with both.

2) What was the process like after finishing in the top ten with your script ("Young Americans")?

DB: The day the Nicholl Finalists were announced in the trades, I was still in New York. I came home to sixteen messages on my machine. The first was from CAA. I called the agent back, who asked me the question: "You're not one of those 'artist' types are you? How do you feel about making lots of money?" I crawled under the covers, and didn't come out for an hour.

I met one agent in New York, then came out to L.A. for a week of meet and greets, after which I decided I was really better off with the New York guy. I flew back, pounded out my follow-up project, turned it in to him...and then waited. After a month, I called his office and was informed that he had “passed away.”

By way of an actual timeline, that was January of 1996. The Nicholl script wasn't optioned until the summer of 1999 (by a producer I met on that first trip to Los Angeles). And I didn't get my first paid gig until the winter of 2002. So, even miniscule success can take a looooooooong time.

Augie Kestrel

09-13-2004, 05:31 PM

My impression is that scripts capable of winning contests are like cars that get picked for "Best of Show" at auto shows (if there is such a thing). Scripts that agents and prodcos are seeking are like cars that will win the Indy 500.

Sometimes a script is capable of doing both, but the smart money is against it.

OkeyDokey

09-13-2004, 08:19 PM

The first was from CAA. I called the agent back, who asked me the question: "You're not one of those 'artist' types are you? How do you feel about making lots of money?"

Classic.

:lol

:o

Evil Elf the One and Only

09-13-2004, 10:30 PM

Winter in New York

09-14-2004, 04:29 AM

Well surely we can all see there's a huge difference between a contest winner or placer and a semifinalist? I wouldn't expect a horse that came in seventh to be more salable after the race. Same with scripts.

Elf, not often I'm this vitriolic, but you obviously have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

Art is subjective. Contests are a lottery. After a certain craft level (think, this guy/gal can write), and a certain narrative level (think originality of story/this story 'connects' with me, the reader) it boils down to TASTE and GUT REACTION.

I have read many Nicholl Semi-finalist scripts and many finalist scripts and many fellowship scripts. And you know what...with the very rare exception...there really isn't too much to choose between them.

If I gave you the 132 current semi-finalist scripts to read, and asked you to pick the 5 Fellows and the 5 Finalists. I will GUARANTEE you that your 10 will not match the 10 the Academy pick.

And the same goes for anyone else who reads them. Screenwriting is not math. 1 plus 1 never equals 2. And thank God for that.

Winter in New York

bunwriter

09-14-2004, 02:55 PM

Creative Exec:

Calling attention to an ealier post:

CE:

You say we shoud pursue agents.

How?

When the majority of agencies (including yours)
clearly state they do not accept unsolicited queries?

creativexec

09-15-2004, 12:29 AM

What would happen if you did sent a query to
an agency that doesn't accept unsolicited
material?

Would you ruin your chances of going pro?
Would you become blacklisted?
Would you be arrested?
Would you be shot in your sleep?

Agencies do not accept unsolicited material
for two reasons:

1) TO AVOID LEGAL COMPLICATIONS.
2) TO AVOID CLUTTER.

Regardless of "policy," many companies will
read the letters. (After all, how do they
know it is a query letter unless they open it.)

The bad concepts/synopses will/may receive
a form response stating, "We do not accept
unsolicited material."

The letters that offer intriguing concepts (or
some other attractive element) and pique
the reader's curiosity will get a letter (or call)
along with a "release form" soliciting the
material.

It is a longshot to find representation at
a large agency (without a track record) via
a query letter. (The odds are better with
smaller agencies.)

But if one is so easily dissuaded by "no
unsolicited material," he may not be cut out
for this business.

:D

sc111

09-15-2004, 10:20 AM

Bunwriter:

Thanks for restating my question to CE. :D

CE:

I'll take blacklisting for $200, CE. Seriously, though,
there has been contrary advice re cold querying
in spite of 'no unsolicited material' warnings.

However, I've been blacklisted for far lesser causes,
what the hell. So, should I address it to your attention,
or to someone else at ICM?

;)

A Pathetic Writer

09-15-2004, 06:19 PM

OK then, how DID 99.9999% of sucessful writers become sucessful writers?

They wrote a brilliant F'ing script that knocked the spit out of the guy reading it. And out of the guy THAT guy showed it to. And out of HIS boss.

Pooks

09-15-2004, 09:24 PM

I just remembered another situation coming out the Nicholl.

I know of a Finalist one year who got a call from an asst. at ICM requesting a script. The finalist overnighted it, and two days later got a call from (what I am told) is one of ICM's bigger name agents. He explained that an assistant took the script home the first night and read it, brought it in that morning and gave it to a junior agent and said, you need to read this, the jr. agent read it, and gave it to the bigger name agent and said YOU need to read this, and the bigger named agent read it at lunch and called the finalist that afternoon.

It all happened that fast, because they were excited about the script.

And no, ultimately, nothing came of it. (Hey, this isn't a movie, happy endings aren't guaranteed.)

But even though it was lower rung employee who requested the script, it made its way up the ladder in a matter of hours.

It wasn't because it was a Finalist. It was because they were excited by the script. The competition placement opened a door, but the script got people excited. For awhile.

There has been a lot of good advice in this thread, and there have been a lot of valid opinions. But I still return to the fact that the odds may be against a SF getting any heat from their script, but you don't know that script, you don't know who might be looking for something like it, and you don't know which call might actually lead somewhere.

Contests are only one way of opening a few doors, and they may not work for everyone. But nothing works for everyone. You've just got to find out what is going to work for you.

Winter in New York

09-15-2004, 11:33 PM

It was because they were excited by the script. The competition placement opened a door, but the script got people excited

Agree 100%, Pooks.

If someone gets lucky (and I chose that word carefully) and does well in a big contest...all it does is open doors to get the script read.

And we all know how hard it is to get your script read by a 'player' in Hollywood, so the importance of opening this door cannot be over stated.

But ultimately, that's all it is. An open door. No more. But certainly no less.

Winter in New York

Pooks

09-16-2004, 11:19 AM

Exactly, Winter.

Too many people focus only on comps, which is a big mistake. I used to say only enter the majors, but I have a friend who has earned a few thousand a year off smaller comps so I guess there's always that, if you're good enough to bring in some dough, I guess.

You simply never know which door will open for you, and you need to be pushing on them all, and that means doing all those things that "never work," because "never" is one of those absolutes I hate. (wink)

Evil Elf the One and Only

09-17-2004, 12:29 AM

Elf, not often I'm this vitriolic, but you obviously have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

Winter, maybe I don't have any idea what I'm talking about, but it seems you don't have any idea what I'm talking about either. We're not in disagreement. Perhaps I was too terse to make my point clearly. My point was not that contest winners are artistically superior to those scripts that don't place. My point is that with the number of contests (and entrants) out there, not winning or being a finalist isn't much of a saleable point. There's not that much to distinguish you from many other scripts, some of which are good and some of which are rotten. Competitions are designed solely to give distinction to those handful of scripts that place in the top three or five or whatever. Because the semifinalists and quarterfinalists have so much company and are defined, ultimately, by the fact that they didn't win, relative placement itself isn't that much of a distinction or salable point. Whether or not the script is a salable one is a question that is totally independant from artistic merit and also where it placed in the contest, unless it was a finalist. That's a bit of heat dropped from the Olympus on which the judges reside, and that's the only thing that seems likely to open doors.

God I'm Wordy Sometimes! (http://terminalcity.diary-x.com)

Winter in New York

09-17-2004, 01:34 AM

Winter, maybe I don't have any idea what I'm talking about, but it seems you don't have any idea what I'm talking about either.

Funny stuff, Elf! Then let us be ignorant together. There's some strange comfort to be had in that! :p

Winter in New York

Evil Elf the One and Only

09-17-2004, 04:11 PM

To be quite honest, in my years as a writing contest judge (no, not scripts) I've never notified semifinalists. This frankly seems to me a subtle way to encourage large numbers of people to feel better about the contest they didn't win, thus helping guarantee their entry fees for the next year. Honestly, why else would you do it? It's not (check the title of the thread) a distinction that is marketable, it's not a bestower of buzz, it won't get you an agent. If individual judges like the scripts, they can go ahead and make offers, set up meetings etc without any official "semifinalist" status at all.

Judgemental (http://terminalcity.diary-x.com)

Winter in New York

09-17-2004, 10:31 PM

This frankly seems to me a subtle way to encourage large numbers of people to feel better about the contest they didn't win

And the problem with this, is?

Writers - probably all writers, but certainly writers who are starting off - need all the encouragement they can get. Why you'd take issue with this is beyond me.

But then, maybe you're just made of stronger stuff than the rest of us.

Winter in New York

April Hamilton

09-18-2004, 12:38 AM

I agree with those who say agent and producer calls will only come to those who have a commercially viable entry.

As opposed to, say, an animation spec.

Cripes, what was I thinking?! :rolleyes

kitnerboy

09-18-2004, 08:44 AM

RE the other 99.9999%

Are there any hard figures about how many scripts sell due to nepotism and sexual favors?

Just wondering....

Bill Marquardt

09-18-2004, 09:42 AM

I won Grand Prize in a contest a couple of years ago and now I am an ADMINISTRATOR on this board!

Queen Uhuru

09-18-2004, 08:24 PM

I won Grand Prize in a contest a couple of years ago and now I am an ADMINISTRATOR on this board!

I'm inspired! ;)

Pickel87

09-27-2004, 11:32 AM

I won Grand Prize in a contest a couple of years ago and now I am an ADMINISTRATOR on this board!

does it pay very well?

Queen Uhuru

09-30-2004, 01:32 AM

Some of the fringe benefits are rather interesting.

psychguy

10-06-2004, 08:38 AM

I registered mainly to thank creativexec for posting here. It sounds like he could consider himself to have better things to do. I've been "slogging" away (as Don Rumsfeld might say) at this for a few years, and it never ceases to amaze me how some folks seem to think a limo is going to pull up with an agent and producer on board, who will hop out and commence a bidding war at your kitchen table.

I've actually seen disaffected writer youth bitching at a conference about access, when high-powered people were sitting not 50 feet away. I'm a bit older than the average novice (over 40), however, I consider this to be an asset. I've had a life as a mental health professional, and that helps. My advice would be to get a life first, then maybe writing will become your life.

I paid keen attention to the remarks about contests. I've been a "runner up" in a few, and while it does help get you read, I believe the key to the kingdom involves query, query, query, schmooze, schmooze, schmooze. The former I do well, the latter, well... Once upon a time in a far away galaxy, when I wrote for alternative weeklies, a friend in publishing would always say, "keep writing." Now I know what she meant.
That's all there is.

OkeyDokey

10-06-2004, 06:39 PM

I've had a life as a mental health professional, and that helps.

Welcome, we've been waiting for you!

:)

stolenfrombingo

10-14-2004, 03:37 PM

i guess it does pay off... i just received 5 requests fro reads based on placing in the nicholl. they all hit at the same time, so I'm not sure what to think, but I'll send off the pages.

AvenueD

10-14-2004, 03:43 PM

I'm not sure what to thinkThe quarterfinalist lists went out Tuesday and Wednesday. The semifinalist lists will go out today or tomorrow.

According to Greg Beal, over the next month or so some 200 lists will be distributed.

Augie Kestrel

10-14-2004, 03:43 PM

Greg just released some kind of list, I think. Others (over in the Contest forum) have indicated they're experiencing the same thing you are.

Pooks

10-15-2004, 06:22 PM

You know, I've hesitated to mention this, partly because it's not my story to tell. But it goes back to the original question on this thread.

The fact is, some scripts DO attract interest. A friend of mine has a QF that has gotten 8 requests and all those came yesterday, and while that may not seem like a big deal compared to what Finalists get, the requests have come from Principato Young and Bender Spink, and I've lost track of some of the others. Good reads, coming off requests for being a quarterfinalist in the Nicholl.

Good luck everybody!

trilby1000

10-16-2004, 04:18 PM

Congrats to those who do well in contests and advance their careers.

I entered my best script in a few contests and never got anywhere. No semi-nothing.

But the same script given to produced writers was referred to producers who referred it to studio story development folks. I now have open doors where I toddle freely in and out pitching scripts and ideas.

One road's a tollway. One's not.

:rollin

Winter in New York

10-25-2004, 08:04 PM

Nice work Trilby.

Contests - if they help - are a Godsend. If they don't. Well, then they're just a bump in the road. Something that should slow you down momentarily, but not bring you to a grinding halt.

Winter in New York

sixridgeroad

10-26-2004, 03:13 AM

Mes deux centimes: My script was a Nichol qfinalist, an Austin semi, and a Screenplay Expo 3 qfinalist. Making the cut 3 for 3 has A) given me some hope and confidence to go on (which is NOT something to sneeze at--I don't know about anybody else, but the drooling hounds of self-doubt bite at my untanned ankles 24/7, but at least now I have some cutlets to distract them with); B), gotten me emails from managers asking to read the script, which is a lot compared to what was going on with my "career" (ha! ha ha ha!) beforehand; and C), will hopefully add a dot of cred when I, like all other would-be screenwriters, send out my winged army of query letters to assault Castle Hollywood.

In sum: I'm all for contests. There are many fly-by-night sheisters out there preying on dreamers, but there are others which are truly interested in helping talent rise to the top. Winning or placing in them don't mean anything, but it sure don't mean nothing.