a dumb question about contests

[echo2218]

I know there's been so many threads on contests, but I honestly don't have it in me to wade through them all. I ask dumb questions, it is what I do.

Okay, I'm thinking about entering 3 contests--Nichol, Austin and Sundance. I don't expect to win. I'm submitting my (third) completed screenplay to the first two and required stuff for Sundance.

I'm using the contests to see if I have any talent at all. I'm thinking if I can get past the first round in at least one of these contests I may have something. If I don't get past the first round in any, then I should probably be nicer to the people I work with and maybe start sucking up to supervisors so I can get a promotion.

Does anyone else use these contests as a gage to measure talent, or is trying to win the primary reason to enter? My script will be done and it will be as good as I'm capable of making it. The $100 I spend on the 3 contests is less than I'd spend paying someone to read.

[odocoileus]

That's sort of the way I see it. If I can't get any recognition at all from the major contests, maybe I'm fooling myself wrt to my talent and/or my work ethic. I'm talking recognition, not winning per se.

I wouldn't be surprised if it took me ten scripts - brainstormed, outlined, written, rewritten, critiqued, rewritten - to get to that point.

Entering the major contests won't hurt, and as you said, the cost isn't that high, all things considered. The three contests you mentioned have good reputations, though I've heard that Sundance only takes people with prior connections.

I'm leery of the numerous minor contests out there, though they certainly have helped some people's careers.

Everyone seems to be in agreement that contests can't make a career in and of themselves. They're just part of an overall strategy, and some successful people forgo them altogether.

[Copywriter2]

You won't get any feedback at all from those contests you mentioned. If feedback is what you're looking for, there are some contests that offer it (like PAGE International Screenwriting Awards). There are also lots of screenplay analysts. One, Barb Doyan at Extreme Screenwriting, charges just $60 per script. She'll give you a thorough and professional evaluation for that amount. Of course, she'll be analyzing one screenplay, so there's no way she can evaluate your talent on the whole. The only way that can be done is to submit, submit and keep submitting to anyone who will read your work. See if a pattern develops. But beware of friends and family. They may tend to be afraid to hurt your feelings if they don't like it. Good luck.

[TATAM78]

There will be some quality entries in the BIG 3 film fests. If you don't think your scripts are worthy of competing then you are probably right.

If I was you I would be paying for feedback. You won't even get an email to let you know you haven't progressed in these competitions and then what have you paid $100 for?

[echo2218]

I think my script is great. I didn't enter my last 2 scripts because there was no point, they just weren't good enough, nor were they contest freindly scripts. I don't think I have a shot in hell of winning, but I'd like to see how many rounds I can get through.


The feedback I'm looking for is not notes, but did I make it past the first round. How can it go? I don't need them to tell me I need to increase the tension in the second act or the main character needs ... something. I just want to know that out of 25,000 entered scripts I made to round X. That is feedback and it is valuable feedback, I think.

[TATAM78]

You won't recieve any feedback unless you make it a long way through the process, even then you might not get any feedback.

What you seek is VALIDATION.

[BROUGHCUT]

cool post. also refreshing to hear someone talk about their first complete script like this. I get tired of that "you need to write three/ten/nth scripts before you're ready to move" crap that people like to drum into new writers like it's gospel.

[ComicBent]

TATAM78: You won't recieve any feedback unless you make it a long way through the process, even then you might not get any feedback ... What you seek is VALIDATION.
That is correct.

We all do it in some way or another.

I cannot blame you at all. But it may prove futile. It is hard to compete against thousands of entries.

[magicman35]

cool post. also refreshing to hear someone talk about their first complete script like this. I get tired of that "you need to write three/ten/nth scripts before you're ready to move" crap that people like to drum into new writers like it's gospel.

The first script I wrote (long time ago now) made the quarters of the Nicholl. Like Purple that early validation gave me the confidence to keep going.

[LauriD]

I agree. The first script you write CAN suck, but there's no rule that it MUST suck. Sometimes, that first script is the one you HAVE to write -- and the passion shows. My first script made the quarters of the Nicholl twice, then the semis after a rewrite. I'm now on #6, and #1 is still my favorite.L.

[Harbinger]

A little off topic, but would any of you who mentioned placing highly in Nicholl be adverse to letting me read the script in question?

I'm entering for the first time this year and would relish the chance to get an idea of the level of quality we're talking in order to progress. I'll even provide my humble feedback for those who are interested.

My critiques are always respectful and for the most part helpful (I hope). You can check my previous posts to confirm that.

And don't worry about plagerism or anything of that nature. Not my style. Besides I would assume you've already registered the script.

I just hoped to get an idea of what was necessary to succeed. I understand, purely from what I've read here, that a lot of it is luck with regards who you get to read your stuff and wether they identify with it. I just hoped for an idea of the quality necessary and perhaps prefered subject matter.

If you're okay with it, just PM the script. If not, no worries and good luck in future endeavours.

[Cornelius Pug]

If you live in LA you can go to the Library and read the winning scripts. (Don't know which library, but www.oscars.org (http://www.oscars.org) tell you where to find them).

I've read some of the finalist and fellows scripts for last year. Don't kid yourself, the standard is very high. You need to be a writer on the cusp of being able to write professionally, with deadlines. You need to be able to tell a story with an edge, or from a different perspective, or high concept, or dramatically different from what's been told before. And you need to have a compelling style, that's visual. In other words you need to be able to write at a professional level.

One of the scripts was set in Bosnia and the writer went to Bosnia to research. That's dedication and professionalism for you, and one that deserved to win. I would think that the luck aspect, if it exists, is whether or not your script scores in the top 30 or top 10, as I imagine that the points are very close up there. Yes, it is subjective, but a good script is a good script, regardless of whether a reader 'likes' it or not, it still has to touch him in some way. I recently read a script that was brutal and violent, the kind of script I hate. But it was a fabulous script, written with strong energy and passion. It won me over, and that's what you need to be able to do with the Nicholl. The readers at semi-final level are Academy members - they may be producers, or screenwriters, or actors, but they are professional people with a long history of the business who give up their time to help new scriptwriters. They know what they are looking for.

Good luck with your endeavours.

[TheKeenGuy]

If you expect to lose, don't pay money to do it.

Zoetrope.com and Triggerstreet.com are what you want to use to gage your progress. You should not pay money to enter a contest unless you have confidence that your script will win, because even then it still probably won't.

[writer0825]

If these scripts are so brilliant, how come more of them don't sell? I checked out the page on Nicholl to see the past winners and I don't recall seeing any of the scripts in the trades. I'm not hating, I'm just wondering, everyone claims they're the best of the best (and I agree Nicholl is one of the best contests) but like I said, I haven't seen any of their winners sell. (obviously I don't read EVERYTHING, it could have been somewhere, but I read the trades religiously and if one of Nicholls winners sold, it would be in the trades)

[TheKeenGuy]

Perhaps they would have made for great movies, but not commercial movies.

Remember, people don't run to the movie theaters in droves because they heard a film had a really great script.

[English Dave]

Totally agree with Purple. A spec I wrote about ten years ago has directly or indirectly got me just about every job I've had since. It's still unsold.

[gregbeal]

I realize that it's far easier to post off the top of one's head rather than to do a little research prior to posting. As Purple Curtain notes, this very subject is discussed with some regularity. Most recently, I posted about it on this board on January 26. Here is a portion of that post:

13 of 91 Nicholl-winning scripts have been produced. The most recent of those -- AKEELAH AND THE BEE and LAND OF THE BLIND -- are currently premiering at festivals and are slated to be released theatrically later this year. [AKEELAH on April 28, to be more exact; you may have noticed a little promotion for it in your local Starbucks.]

At least 28 (and perhaps a few more) of the remaining 78 Nicholl-winning scripts have been sold or optioned. Several of those scripts are currently in active development. Thus, at least 41 of 91 Nicholl-winning scripts have been produced, sold or optioned.

Several writers who did not sell or option their Nicholl-winning scripts (so far as I know) have done fairly well since then, including Susannah Grant, Andrew Marlowe and Allison Anders.

A number of Nicholl-winning writers have been hired on assignment without the benefit of a spec sale.

Nicholl Fellows have provided the story for, written, co-written and/or directed 51 feature films, which have earned over $2.7 billion in worldwide box office. (Unless release schedules change, the 52nd film will be CHARLOTTE'S WEB.) This does not include films written or co-written by fellows who did not receive credit on those films. [It also does not include 'TIS AUTUMN: THE SEARCH FOR JACKIE PARIS, a feature doc directed by Raymond de Felitta that premiered at the 2006 Sundance Film Festival.]

Nicholl Fellows have also written a number of produced and unproduced cable and television movies and have served on TV series writing staffs.

For a number of other writers, advancing in the Nicholl competition served as an indication that they were ready to make the leap into a professional writing career. Included in this group of past Nicholl quarter/semi/finalists are such film and television writers as Vince Gilligan, Gavin Hood, Wayne Kramer, Damon Lindelof, Greg Poirier, Scott Rosenberg, Frank Spotnitz, Meredith Stiehm and Marianne Wibberley, to name only a few. [To update, Gavin Hood's TSOTSI won an Academy Award as Best Foreign Film; his top 30 Nicholl script was A REASONABLE MAN, which was also produced. Jason Smilovic's LUCKY NUMBER SLEVIN placed among the top 30 Nicholl scripts in 2001.]

[writer0825]

"It's a big mistake to assume that specs are only worth something if they become the object of a bidding war."

I wasn't assuming anything, I was just asking an innocent question.

[English Dave]

"It's a big mistake to assume that specs are only worth something if they become the object of a bidding war."

I wasn't assuming anything, I was just asking an innocent question.

I hope the answer is to your satisfaction. :)

[BROUGHCUT]

repost:

Quick check of winners 2002-2004.

Some may be pocketed etc, the following winners have reps/credits listed on studio system:

2004 winners

Sean Mahoney - Gotham (Lindsay Williams)
Whit Rummel - Gotham (Lindsay Williams)


2003 winners

Andrea R. Herman - Agency Group

Tejal K. Desai and Brian C. Wray - Paradigm (Trevor Astbury) / Nine Yards (Steve Crawford)

Bragi Schut Jr.
Agent Brant Rose / Brant Rose Agency
Attorney Robert Szymanski / Eclipse Law Corporation
Manager Brian Spink / Benderspink


FEATURE FILM
Writer
THE SUB-MARINER (Feature Film / 2006 / In Development) Screenplay (rewrite)
CRIMINAL MACABRE (Feature Film / In Development) Screenplay (rewrite)
THE LAST VOYAGE OF DEMETER (Feature Film / In Development) Screenplay
SEASON OF THE WITCH (Feature Film / In Development) as Bragi F. Schut Jr Screenplay (spec) **NICHOLL SCRIPT** MGM bought the spec script by Bragi Schut Jr. for a reported mid-against high-six figures
PATHFINDER (PHOENIX PICTURES) (Feature Film / 2006 / Wrapped) Screenplay (production polish)

James N. Mottern - CAA (Brian Kend)
FEATURE FILM
Writer
BOOMERANG (BONA FIDE) (Feature Film / In Development) Screenplay **August 2005**

2002 Winners:

John Ciarlo - Sean Marks (atty)
Matt Harris - CAA (Jay Baker) / Kustom (mgr)
Kurt Kuenne - UTA (Tony Babst)/ Kaplan Perrone

I originally went back pre-2000 but it hacked up and got lost when I tried to post.

seems to be a healthy picture overall for representation. Greg said 45% of winning scripts have been opitions/sold? Well, options can be free, and I don't think anywhere near that proportion enter active development. That's not the fault of Nicholl, or course, their results are hugely impressive, everything considered.

[English Dave]

Guys, it depends on your definition of success. Most assignments are not listed. 'Heat' can't be calculated. It appears to me [never having entered a competition] that if you choose the right competition, and do well, it may open doors for you. More than if you just rely on throwing out log lines and queries to a blanket audience.

Choose wisely. There are many worthless competitions and a few good ones.