Pay or Play

[Winter in New York]

In the current market-place, how far down the talent pecking order does Pay or Play go?

Winter in New York

[wcmartell]

If the actor has a value - if producers can use the actor to get funds - that actor's agent will try to make the best deal they can for their actor (which may include "pay or play" or may require a firm offer before the actor will even read the script, etc).

- Bill

[Winter in New York]

Thanks, Bill. I realize all that. For the film I'm thinking about, I've fortunately got a great producer / agent team, so actually getting the script read isn't too much of an issue (some cool folks are reading it as we speak). What I'm trying to get my head around however is the pay-or-play thing. For the leads, sure, I can understand. But for the folks I've got in mind for the supporting roles, I'm wondering what level of talent we can attach without pay-or-play coming into the equation.

For a real life example. Tyne Daley. Wonderful actress. Mostly TV, but talent to burn. We're looking at her for one of the supporting roles. Would she - with a resume as long as your arm - be a pay-or-play? Or is it simply a matter of, 'Oh you've got X and Y in this? - Then damn right I want to do the film' kinda thing.

Winter in New York

[wcmartell]

Then all of this stuff (including the paying) is the producer's job, let them lose sleep over it. I can't see Tyne Daly being difficult to get onboard (wasn't the TV series she was on canceled?).

- Bill

[Winter in New York]

Yeah, it's true, I am sticking my nose into the producer's business. But, though I've done some low level producing myself, and have a solid understanding of the game. I'm out of depth here - what with the oxygen being so thin this high up!

But basically, I don't like 'not knowing' something. There's no such thing as too much knowledge as the saying goes. So even if it's the producer's job and really none of my business (though I'm Directing too so it is, kinda my business) - I still like to be up on everything.

Winter in New York

[Cole Blackburn]

From my experience, you just can't tell. I have approached
actors I thought were pay or play who committed to the
project without it. If you approach the top ten actors/
actresses, I'm sure you'll hear the demand, but after that,
I wouldn't bet on anything. It also depends how you approach them. If you go to their agent first, I think it's more likely to get POP. I have done my approaches through managers who
don't seem to think of POP. If you go through a friend or
acquaintance, it's even less likely. I don't think there are any hard and fast rules. We have all seen the situations where an unknown producer signed on a major talent because the talent loved the project. Bruce Willis. Sylvestor Stallone. (who?) come to mind. My two cents. Cole

[creativexec]

It's all about how badly you want the talent.

Obviously, most A-list actors can negotiate
a pay or play deal. In fact, many make
millions of dollars a year by agreeing to star
in films that never get made.

If Tyne Daly were approached by - let's say -
Spielberg, it seems unlikely that her agent
would try to negotiate a pay or play deal.

But if a small producer approaches and
absolutely must have her, a good agent
would attempt to negotiate that kind of
deal.

Since most actors are happy just to get
work, the pay or play thing isn't an issue.

When you're Tom Cruise who must clear his
very busy schedule to make your film and
turns down lots of 20 mil offers for your project,
pay or play is smart because it guarantees
his salary if the film falls through.



:D

[Ivylilly]

It really depends on the person and the agent. We had a case where both leads agreed to work for scale and a the actress we wanted for the supporting role got really stubborn and wanted "pay or play." Granted, she had good credits, but if your leads aren't doing that, you have good leverage. But if you aren't peoducing the film, you really shouldn't worry too much about any of that.

[Minibrain]

Judging Amy isn't canceled.

And, considering what TV actors who are regulars on series for several years generally make -- Tyne Daly doesn't need to be looking for a paycheck.

What's more common than pay or play, with actors at that level, is that you can't audition them. They are what are called "offer only." If you want them in your movie or TV show, you call up their agent and make an offer. If they say yes and you close a deal, they'll do it. If you find, on the set, that they aren't working out and you want to hire somebody else, you have to pay them off.

A lot of successful TV actors look for work they can do over the hiatus. Some are looking mostly for money, others are looking for things that interest them artistically.

One of the key issues with a regular working on an hour-long network show will be availability.

[creativexec]

Lots of actors won't "read" for a part - even those
who aren't "A" list. Actors who have accumulated
a long filmography often feel their work speaks for
itself and they won't read. It's a sign of respect.
But it doesn't come close to being as sweet as
pay or play.


:D

[CT in ATL]

Okay. I'm a novice - how would you exactly define "Pay or Play?"

[zz9]

how would you exactly define "Pay or Play?"
You get paid even if the movie doesn't get made, or if you're replaced by someone else. Standard contracts have a 'trigger date', usually the day shooting starts, on which you get paid. So if you were replaced the day before that, and you didn't have pay or play, you'd get nothing and you'd struggle to find work quickly to make up for it. With pay or play you'd get the money anyway.

[CT in ATL]

Thanks, zz9.:D