BEST PGL 3 SCREENPLAYS?

[baseballlvr]

We've all been talking about the "dog" screenplays we have all read, which far outnumber the good ones, no doubt.

Now, I'd like to hear from you guys the screenplays that have been decent. To protect the integrity of the contest, I would suggest we don't name names.

But I'd like to hear about the concepts and storylines that worked.

Any takers?

[CeeDub1]

The one I rated the highest had good story structure and a decent story, one you might expect from a early 90's B-rated movie. Now I watched a lot of those sorts of movies when I was a kid so there was a cool familiarity about it that you don't see in modern movies.

I was about a young guy who just got out of jail for killing his girlfriend (of course he didn't really do it and that was obvious from page one). But he gets back into town has to deal with hard feelings with family members, townspeople and of course the dead girlfriend’s dad who is best friend with the local law. Anyhow, bad things happens, there is tension between most of the characters and a little violence.

Like I indicated earlier the main thing I like was the structure and pace of the story. The writer kept an even- keel the whole way through. The story was a little predictable because of that, but you know it is hard to have one thing without the other. Anyhow that was my favorite read so far I rated it as GOOD overall.

cw

[baseballlvr]

The best I've read thus far -- although it didn't have an active protagonist (the police were too passive) -- was one about a killer who forces a female film student to do a documentary on him or she'll be killed.

Wasn't awesome. Most definitely won't win the contest.

But buried among the bad formatting and other problems, there at least was a story there with decent dialogue and decent pacing.

[KimBritt]

I read two decent screenplays. One was a comedy/coming of age about three female friends. It was one of the first ones I read, so it's hard for me to remember all the details, but from what I remember, the dialogue was really funny, the characters were all pretty well developed and had their own distinct personalities (I hate stories where you can't tell one character from another), and the formatting was pretty good (which is always a plus, even though we're not supposed to take off for it...which I don't).

The second I just read last night. It was hard to place the genre...I suppose a drama. But it wasn't mainstream drama. It was about a father struggling to raise his daughter and take care of his elderly father after his wife dies in a car accident. Further into the story, you learn that he is dying due to complications from the accident all those years ago and he's secretly looking for someone to take care of his daughter and father when he dies. At first I didn't like it because there are so many questions and not enough answers, but once it got going and everything started to make sense, I really got into it. It is my pick for best screenplay so far (besides mine, of course :lol ) If this belongs to someone here....well done!!

I'm glad someone asked this. I'm really interested in hearing what GOOD screenplays are out there, cause I'm not getting that many.

[nookiejenkins]

Good call on this topic, baseball...out of ten screenplays reviewed, I'm sad to report that only one of them really grabbed me. And it was a comedy of all things, very clever. It followed the adventures of a girl who finds out on the day of its expiration that a winning lottery ticket ($77 mm) she purchased for her ex-boyfriend one year ago has not been redeemed. Drawn well as a conceited bitch, she recruits some partners (by lieing about how much the ticket is actually worth) to help her track down her ex so she can cash in on what's hers before the deadline hits.

Laugh out loud funny in parts and really keeps your attention throughout. It's the only script out of ten that I finished in one sitting. Well done.

[baseballlvr]

Nookie, that sounds interesting, as far as the girl figuring out the ticket she bought for her boyfriend hadn't been redeemed.

Now logic takes over -- how does the writer effectively show that the girl, No. 1, would know the boyfriend had the winning ticket and, No. 2, how does the writer make it believeable that the boyfriend is oblivious to it? Did the girlfriend write the number down or what?

Also, could you see it on the bigscreen? Or was it just the best of what you've read?

I love to try to figure out what makes screenplays effective.

[jpaque]

I read one about some cops terrorizing homeless people in L.A. It was very well-written. Professional. Ending wasn't the best, but that's okay, this is PGL. After I got done, I thought to myself, "Cool, I was hoping to get a script like that."

[nookiejenkins]

All good questions.

how does the writer effectively show that the girl, No. 1, would know the boyfriend had the winning ticket and, No. 2?

Throwing out the fact that it takes a year for the ticket to become void (I believe it's actually 90 days, but how dramatic is that?), the writer showed that earlier on the day of their breakup, the boyfriend asked her to pick up some beer for him. She did and had a couple dollars left over. Since the jackpot was at the highest it had been in some time, the clerk convinced her to take a shot and buy a ticket. The writer had already drawn that the boyfriend was a penny-pincher and did not believe in chance, so he was pissed that she gave him a lottery ticket instead of proper change. Without giving it a thought during their breakup, he tossed the ticket inside of a yearbook and closed it. When the news was covering the fact that this ticket had gone unreturned one year later and was in danger of being voided, everyone started to take notice. Recognizing the date that the ticket was originally sold, where it was sold, and how much the jackpot was, this prompted her to investigate further. A bit of a stretch? Sure. But in the context, I think it worked.

how does the writer make it believeable that the boyfriend is oblivious to it?

As mentioned above, apparently the news media didn't start blanket coverage until the day of it's expiration. The yearbook had long been stored away and in the boyfriend's eyes, the ticket was a faint memory. He didn't put together what she was up to until she contacted him out of the blue and was on her way to his apartment (in a new city, with a new girlfriend) - then the race was on.

Did the girlfriend write the number down or what?

No, she used common numbers that were relatively easy for her to recall (birthdate, date virginity was lost, etc.)

Also, could you see it on the bigscreen? Or was it just the best of what you've read?

In my review, I called it a cross between CLERKS and ROAD TRIP, but after thinking about it a little more, it was more like CLERKS and RAT RACE. I could see it being developed somewhere and marketed as a teen comedy - could I see it being bought as it is today? No. It definitely needs work, but from a story, character, and structure standpoint, the writer knew their way around. Saying it was the best that I read isn't really fair, the rest of my assignments really shouldn't have been shown to anyone besides good friends and family. I reviewed each of my scripts as if I were a dev exec - could I work with this and tighten it up for production or not - regardless of genre. The answer for this one came back, yes.

I hope that answers your questions...

[boygilroy]

The first wasn't an absolute nightmare, just weak.

I'm midway in one I didn't intend to start reading until I had the time, but it hooked me. Genre horror--not my favorite--but a neat premise and setting. I'm really praying it has a lame ending, otherwise, I think I'll rate it pretty highly.

[catz1]

I'm really praying it has a lame ending, otherwise, I think I'll rate it pretty highly.

You're PRAYING it has a lame ending?

Holy christ, what is wrong with you people?

[MRaab]

Nookiejenkins,

What was your signon over at the pgl messageboards? Was it runnindrum or something like that?

[boygilroy]

You bet your boots I'm praying! If there's too many more like the one I'm reading now I'll get another "thanks for entering and try again next year" letter.

And there's too much wrong with me to go into here.

[nookiejenkins]

MRaab - I am GriffinMill on the PGL boards, but this is my first year entering the contest. For some reason, I had to sign up for a universal username to post on these boards, hence the name change. As a writer, I just wasn't ready when the first two came around. I did my share of posting on the PGL2 boards last year, though.

boygilroy, you are what's wrong with this contest. Little boys like you who surf porn in their Grandma's basement all day and decide to finally get that "Vampires Invade SeaWorld" disaster on paper tanking screenplays along the way have no place in this community.

Go watch another rerun of Silver Spoons and find another hobby.

[krinkelfish]

Has anyone read one about EVP?

[The Phantom Scribe]

Best THREE screenplays? I'd be happy to read one that's not akin to sticking a steel scrub brush up my urethra. Why are so many of these people even bothering? They quite obviously have no sense of story, structure or dialog. It's torture, I tell you. Just horrible.

[cuttingedge814]

EVP?????

[nookiejenkins]

Electronic Voice Phenomena??

[hdmdc]

If horror is not your genre, why the hell are you doing this? "Horror/thriller" IS the genre this year.

[NikeeGoddess]

boygilroy - if you tank that script b/c you want yours to beat it then you'll never be able to look yourself in the mirror again without knowing what a jerk you are. :evil

what's even more horrifying is, that it might be my script!
;)

[hdmdc]

Between the people who have submitted absolutely awful scripts, the ones who couldn't read the rules and submitted non-horror/thriller scripts, and the ones who are openly bashing scripts undeservedly so, it's a very scary thought to think that these people are deciding whether a script makes it to the top 1000. I just pray I make it to the professional readers.

(And yes, that does sound pretentious)

[Salazkin]

I'm not even participating, but just thought I'd point out that boygilroy acknowledged his (?) capacity for giving high marks and in fact said he would. I don't exactly see why that's construed as his being unfavorably biased.

It's natural to want to have one's own work finish better than the competition. Nothing wrong with that. What's not acceptable is when that desire prevents one from giving a reasonably fair and unbiased appraisal of another's work. But I don't see where boygilroy's words actually suggest that.

Just my two cents.

[krinkelfish]

Yeah...EVP.

[FluffyUnbound]

The rules actually explicitly state that you can submit any genre you want.

They indicate that as the contest moves along they will "weight" the reviews in favor of certain genres.

Since I'm sure that my script is at least 3 times as good as any of the horror scripts I've seen, any "weighting" of less than a 300% markup will still lead to a cakewalk victory for moi.

Please don't complain about "not reading the rules" when you haven't read them yourself.

[NikeeGoddess]

sure you can submit any genre you want. pgl didn't want to turn away 6000 $30 entry fees from comedy and drama writers. notice how they buried the information deep in the rules :rolleyes - for the non-readers :lol

but, just like any other production company, if miramax wants to do a horror or thriller then they don't care whether your drama is a good script. they're going to make what they think will sell to the audience.

[baseballlvr]

Hey guys -- we're back on the same argument again. I think we've argued this to death. I don't think anyone is gonna win.

How about we get back to the purpose of this thread? Tell us the best PGL screenplays you've read without naming names.

I don't really care if it is not thriller/horror. I just want to hear your thoughts about the best you've read. BTW, I entered a thriller, so I'm not arguing for or against other type screenplays being entered and how they're judged.

Please get back on topic.

[Queen Uhuru]

The best PGL script I've ever read was from PGL 1 and it was a story about art thieves done by cloudkick. In PGL 2, I liked a script called "Nunley," but I don't remember the writer's name. And I'm not reviewing for PGL 3 so have no opinion there.

[HLVexperiment]

HDMDC,

I think YOU bettter read the rules. Nothing about not entering non horror/thriller. Just their prefernce. Do some reading in one interview MATT said or a comedy too.

[boygilroy]

I've completed my three reviews and admit I'm surprised that only one of the three was less than competition material. One was professional enough, with good concept, but was sluggish in places, and too long.

And the one I got in trouble for... The prayed for lame ending didn't happen. First rate, dammit, and I said so in my review.

If there's a problem with PGL--and I doubt that it's people like me--it's that a lot of dogmatists are going to read carelessly and penalize some decent work, and then the thing finally gets decided by what is essentially an audition for a reality show where being professional isn't weighted as heavy as being capable of throwing an entertaining tantrum for the cameras. (Not that Erica Beeny falls into that category, but you'll remember she didn't get as much attention as Chris Moore and the directors.)

[nookiejenkins]

That sounds much better, boygilroy. I'm happy to see this post. Now you don't sound like a little boy who writes in Grandma's dark basement. I agree there are people who are going to tank work that deserves to make it to the next level and that is the chance that we all signed on to face. I, personally, would rather pay more to ensure that my work was being read and reviewed by a capable professional. Hell, a first year film student would be a better alternative than an amateur who has no business entering this contest, or any other, for that matter.

Just curious, give us the vague storyline of the good one you just finished...

[sppeterson]

Boygilroy, just letting you know that your first post didn't sound problematic to me--I liked the ironic humor.

This does explain why one occasionally gets in trouble for using subtext though.

[boygilroy]

It doesn't show in the log or the title, so I can say my most recent review, was about the Wandering Jew coming to the Bay Area. And it really had some potential--snug up the dialog to make it run faster and I could see it on the Sci-Fi Channel.

Even my least favorite of the three I read had a nugget of originality in it. This wasn't the ordeal I feared.

[FluffyUnbound]

Got to disagree with you on that one, boygilroy.

The whole "I was Jack the Ripper" thing was already getting old when it was in that Star Trek episode. If Scotty had showed up in this script I would not have been surprised. How many Jack the Ripper scripts do we need?

I thought that script was kind of like the police department in "The Last Action Hero" INSIDE the film-within-a-film. Everyone was a screaming cliche. "Hi, I'm the female FBI agent played by Rene Russo and I have a past with one of the cops and there is a lot of sexual tension." "Hi, I'm the lieutenant who has to be gruff to show I'm in charge but I'm trying to cover for my boys and give them a chance to solve the case." "Hi, I'm the guy at the next management level up who is a real @#%$ and wants the bust for myself." "Hi, I'm the killer who toys with the cop by sending him messages over his computer."

Granted, it became a little better once I decided that "Phil" was being played by Skoda from Law and Order. But still...

I think I gave it a 6. Not terrible, but fundamentally flawed by its lack of originality.

[gwhurls]

Granted, it became a little better once I decided that "Phil" was being played by Skoda from Law and Order. But still...a.k.a. Vern Schillinger (Oz) ....ooooh creeepy. Heh

[cluckyburger]

have finished 7 so far. wildly varying quality. some have been good, some have been impressive but wrong for the contest, some have been poor. read a great shining-ish script, read a incredibly well-written comedy, a pretty good se7en-ish thing. there was also a vampire movie. all in all, the quality of writing in my sample has been un-horrible, and that's inspiring in a contest of this size.

[Jack0902]

Clucky: tell us more about the good "Shining-esque" script.

[cuttingedge814]

and about that comedy. a good comedy is hard to pull off.

[cluckyburger]

the shining-ish one was about a young couple on some deserted land in northern calif. not a perfect script but solid. was it yours Jack0902?

the comedy was about a guy who goes on a road trip to get his girlfriend back after she leaves him for a storm-chaser. very good writing.

you guys have any recommendations?

[Literate Guerilla]

i've read seven so far. i don't want to get into too many specifics, as i wouldn't want to bias anyone, so pardon me if they seem vague and i refuse to offer any additional details.
if you don't want to be biased in the least (since there are a few details here), please don't read this post....

they each break down about like this:

vampire story - had a decent concept, but just didn't work well. reading it made me ask a lot of 'what the f***,' is the writer trying to say here?" had a few storylines that were unnecessary and a few suppositions that required an enormous suspension of disbelief. the ending came out of nowhere and killed whatever chance the story ever had to be decent.

two couples switching mates story - technically well written. it looked and felt exactly like a real screenplay - unlike the rest of the ones i read - but the premise reminded me exactly of another romantic comedy and i just couldn't get over that. the writer has skills, but more of a craftsman(woman), than an artist. this person could have taken a few of the ones i read and made them very good.

murder mystery - a god fearing man has his entire family killed and has to deal with the murder and the murder and his relationship with god. despite being in the house at the time of the killings, he was never even remotely considered a suspect. i couldn't get over that. had about zero tension and characters that weren’t compelling. tried to save it with a twist at the end, but by then it was way too late.

coming of age drama with thriller element- a guy's dad is a bum, and he's kind of a loser, too. he tried to get a better relationship with his father while he tried to assert a better self identity. had potential, but needed a lot of work. never established enough tension, either.

man gets cursed - a guy gets cursed after injuring someone and as a result sees the past. was a nice creative concept, just poorly executed. writer wasted about the first 30 pages before getting into the heart of the story. after a thorough rewrite the writer might be on to something.

pop culture heavy coming of age drama - this writer must be on staff at some indy music magazine and wasn't afraid to show it. way too many music and pop culture references, and dialogue that rambled on for far too long. a decent concept for the story, but not well executed. about 120 pages long, with the entire solution to everyone's problems happening in about the last page due to one wholly unreasonable event transpiring – an out of court settlement for millions of dollars that took about a week to happen.

jerk gets his comeuppance drama - a guy that's a dick is haunted by a ghost of some guy he hardly knew. this one was 90 pages and spent the first 20 talking about absolutely nothing relevant to the story. it read like a transcript of a few conversations between friends that the writer thought were a lot cooler than they really where. i couldn’t get why this guy was being haunted by some guy he hardly knew that had no cause to haunt him in the first place. had a solid surprise ending to resolve that, but it wasn't set up well since there was no tension present.

All in all, the scripts weren’t that good, but they weren’t terribly awful either. Seemed to me that many were based on personal experiences that weren’t that compelling. I’ll keep reading until I can review no more. I open up each PDF hoping the best, and am more than willing to reward excellence.

[Pushgo]

I believe the best script I've read was a thriller of sorts -- probably isn't for an American audience -- a bit too subtle for MOST of our taste --

About this French hussler who uses his sister to lure rich men into a trap -- then he rapes them, tapes it and blackmail's them -- that's the overall basis, but it has some subtle things going on with his sister .. which needed to be developed further -- I believe it caused me to place the story/plot mark a notch lower than I would have normally -- overall I gave it high marks -- but not quite a 12.

It reminded me of The Talented Mr. Ripley(not that I loved that movie) -- although I thought Matt Damon's part was stronger than the antagonist in this script(at the moment) -- but with some work I could see this surpassing 'Ripley' as a whole -- and would make for a movie that made a lot more sense --

[CeeDub1]

"About this French hussler who uses his sister to lure rich men into a trap -- then he rapes them, tapes it and blackmail's them"

Yeah, that sounds pretty subtle.;)

cw

[Pushgo]

Well being an American -- I'm not so subtle in my descriptions --


I'll work on that.

[KimBritt]

Am I the only loser that keeps checking this thread hoping to see someone praising my entry? So either no one has read it or it's so bad (or unforgettable) that it's not making anyone's
"good" list. Just a random thought :lol

[jacinto34]

I feel the same way kim

[FluffyUnbound]

It gets easier if you decide in advance that you are going to receive the minimum number of reviews, that they will be all 1's across the board, and that the comments will question your sanity, ancestry, sexuality, and right to breathe.

Once you decide that, waiting for the 25th is EASY.

[Jami]

I read an amazing script last night called Home Stand. A football story that's more Nicholl than PGL. I'm sure its writer, wherever he is, is on the verge of a screenwriting career.

Jami

[PeekABooBang]

Am I the only loser that keeps checking this thread hoping to see someone praising my entry?

I've been on sabbatical and that has afforded me the time to read twenty+ scripts. I have not come across any of the scripts listed on your web link.

I haven't read anything that's blown me away but there were a few diamonds in the rough. - off the top of my head: the one about FL brothers that I mentioned in a previous post, a script about some grifters from SF, a rom-com involving cupid, a James Bond type character involved in a battle between good & evil, and one about city people who go back to a rural land. I'm just giving small details here so as not to prejudice other readers.

[KimBritt]

Jacinto34, thanks. That makes me feel better :D

Peekaboobang, thanks for taking the time to check my website. That was really cool of you!!

C'mon 25th. C'mon 25th :lol

[The Phantom Scribe]

I can't take it anymore. Am I the only one who's gotten nothing but pure drek assigned to them? I don't want the judges to think I'm a U-boat commander, but I can't just give these things more than the miserable scores they deserve simply because I'm paranoid what the judges will think. At least I'm maxing out my 2000-character comment allotment, so they'll see I gave it an earnest effort. But that's it, no more reads. It's just too painful.

[Jack0902]

Phantom: no, you're not the only one having bad luck. I have read 12 scripts, and only one of them was above a fair rating. The good one, surprisingly, was a vampire script. Very well-written--the writer has a good voice. The only problem is that the first half of the movie is virtually identical to the Lost Boys, and the second half is identical to that vampire movie with James Woods. But other than lack of originality, it was good.

I have not seen any descriptions yet matching either of my scripts, but I will admit that I look for that too.

I'm hoping mine get read by some director contestants. Seems a sure way to get an unbiased read.

[The Phantom Scribe]

Wow, one for twelve. And I thought I had it bad! Of the five I've read, only one rated as fair, and that was being a bit generous. The others were complete tripe. Would've loved to have had one read I can get behind, but my latest log lines smell like more bad news, and I just can't face another two to three hours of tedium. I've read two over my quota and I figure that's a fair effort. At least some people are finding some gems in the rocks, so that's a good thing.

[zweldy]

best was a quite funny zombie comedy about two stoner/slackers who turn into samurai/comic book warriors and battle a sudden horrific zombie outbreak with barely a shrug. Plenty of funny banter but no scares-- more action comedy with lots of gore.

If it gets past the format police (font and margin problems) this one might be the kind of genre flick Affleck and Moore (and Dimension) would like.

[Boopaloop]

I'm finding none of the scripts I've read are as ridiculously constructed as in years past - the writers know the basic three-act structure - but the plots are either poorly thought-out or nothing happens and then the last ten pages of act 3 are packed. There have been no signs of subplots or character arcs in anything, and then I just read one with a very bland plot, but the use of language and dialogue were stellar.

[kullervo]

I've found a few in which page 60 should have been page 30 (or 15) and the end should have been page 60. Sigh.

kullervo

[KimBritt]

Yes, after 14 screenplays, finally a good one. I know I said I wouldn't read anymore, but I caved. There was just too much time left to sit back and wait :lol

I had read a few "ok" ones, but I was searching for something that blew me away and I found it today. I don't know if I'm giving anything away by saying this, because I don't know how many of them there are out there, but it was a werewolf story. It had everything, great dialogue, intriguing characaters, an awesome plot, and enough twists and turns to really hold interest. I gave it high marks. I think it may even be good enough to win, or at least come pretty close.

[THamilton]

I just read a thriller that was excellent. The story had an original premise, well developed characters, a classic three act structure and great dialogue. In teaching myself the craft, I've read more than 100 great produced screenplays. This read exactly like one of them.

I won't go into story details, as it seems folks here don't want to see them, but I will say that I do hope one of you guys wrote it, since I gave it top marks across the board. :D

[baseballlvr]

THamilton, without giving the name of the script or details, what occupation did the protagonist have in the stellar script?

[KimBritt]

Yes, THamilton, do tell. I don't think that's giving away too much :lol

[Bill Rectal]

Oooh, oooh, I hope it's mine. Did it have anything to do with a robot conspiracy to take over the world?

[Jack0902]

Or, TH, what city did it take place in?

[cruelmessenger]

Could be anything.

Just as long as it isn't mine. I don't mean that mine is trash- what I mean is there is some decent scripts out there other than my own. Diamonds in the rough should be discovered and valued.

I know mine's really good because I know it is.
And my peers at Zoetrope concur as it is also been workshopped.

http://

[cruelmessenger]

Without telling the name of my sp, I'll just give out the log:

While some believe the spirit of a killer resides in a man-size wooden 'Golem', former FBI agent Derek Wagner is not one of them. But he will have to stop someone who not only takes the killer's creation, but who also intend to finish off the only survivor.

Now I know none of you have laid eyes on it. I think the director's reviews got the first crack.

[dudeheimer]

Sorry cruelmessenger, I had your logline as a choice, but didn't choose it. If it comes up again, I'll take a look.

[gwhurls]

messenger,

I don't recall seeing it, but if I had (just being honest here), I would have skipped it, and selected something else.

Why?

While some believe the spirit of a killer resides in a man-size wooden 'Golem', former FBI agent Derek Wagner is not one of them. But he will have to stop someone who not only takes the killer's creation, but who also intend to finish off the only survivor.

Partly because the logline is clunky, and it takes too long to get to the real heart of the matter. The last bit doesn't really make sense either. Plus it sounds indecisive throughout. Then there is what I highlighted. I don't know what that is, and since you 'quoted' it, it sounds like you don't either. So, if the logline is so incomplete or indecisive, I would think the plot of the script might be too.

Just my two cents, since you appear to be looking for input (or pats on the back maybe?).

Hey, good luck with it!

[eszyszka]

cruelmessenger,

Inspired by the Weimar-era film "Der Golem" by Paul Wegener?

[krinkelfish]

A Golem is a creature made i believe of mud and sand and earth. It is conjured up by someone to do evil. I think it might be Jewish folklore of some sort.;)

[Bill Rectal]

The Golem story is one of many bastardizations of the holy Kabbalah (biblical Hebrew mysticism) that occurred during the middle ages (a time of intense persecution). It was a mythical creature that Jewish leaders supposedly would conjure up to exact vengeance upon their enemies. It's worse than lore, it's an embarrassment, akin to showing people who believe in voodoo, and the last thing we need to see another movie about.

[gwhurls]

krinkel,

I actually looked up what it was. You're on it tho' :)

The issue really is the way he 'quoted' it. Either it is a golem or it isn't. The last place you want to be coy or cute or indecisive is your logline.

[cruelmessenger]

Y'know something, I'm not quite sure what to make of the responses.
If you see the sp, fine. If not, fine.

As for not picking the sp, there may have been another sp that looked appealing.

As for 'pats on the back', I was just curious if anyone saw it. Since it seems I got
the lynch mob, and someone even saying the script is terrible without reading it
to come to such a conclusion- I should not have bothered anyone on the boards here.

Sorry for asking (and BTW, no one bothers to say what would make the LL better)- did I sweat someone? I thought the old PGL boards were bad. Didn't expect a room of unfriendlies.

As for the premise, it is a loose interpetation/variation of the folklore. It is not about voodoo, though.
In fact, I'm just going to shut up about it now, because I did not expect positive reactions, but I sure did not expect hostile ones. PGL3 was on the lookout for a genre; I deliver on that genre and now it's a matter of damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Yes, a Golem is an 'artificial human'. It is possible that Golem was not the best term to use in the script. It is possible that I am far from perfect. But man o man- 'bastardization'! Hey folks, a horror thriller is a horror thriller. What fright flick do you want to make for a mil on a PG-13 level?

The mob can go back reading your coming of age Lifetime specials. Go back to your normal business, normal string. I apologize for the shocking travesty I inflicted on you all.

I have use for a pissed off Donald Duck about now.

[NikeeGoddess]

you're a bit sensitive, dude. only 1 person really pointed out that you didn't have a good logline.

if you want to workshop your logline there is a logline section on this board for that purpose. but, that's not the purpose of this thread.

[Bill Rectal]

Just settle down and relax. I don't know what your script is about other than what you seem to be saying is a mystery/thriller playing off a loosely defined myth. And there's probably no harm in that. I was merely trying to shed light on the background of the "Golem". I wasn't suggesting your script was a "bastardization." I said the Golem story is a bastardization of a very sacred subject. I'll explain...

Kabbalah (Hebrew mysticism) dates back to biblical times. In short, the study of Kabbalah is the study of "the secret word of G-d" and supposedly is encoded in the Torah (the first five books of the bible). Kabbalah is also supposedly what gave the ancient Messiahs their special powers. It is a very complex topic of study that has to do with attaining a very deep understanding of the relationship between G-d and creation and has driven many a serious Kabbalah student to near insanity.

The Golem, on the other hand, dates back to the middle ages in Europe when Jews were constantly living under precarious citizenship. It was a time when the teachings of the Kabbalah were twisted into bogus black arts by Jews who wished to strike superstitious fear into the hearts of those who would harm them. And it is indeed a part of a perversion of the subject that evolved to include numerology and other such nonsense. No serious scholar of Kabbalah takes these distortions seriously. Furthermore, since the Kabbalah is considered a holy subject, just like the Talmud and the Torah, many consider the perpetuation of these myths distasteful.

Of course, the study of Kabbalah has become quite de rigeur of late, what with clowns like Madonna needing a new cool thing to explore. So now she thinks she can study a few scrolls and unlock the secrets of the universe. I guess the whole material girl thing got old. But even casual students are quick to learn that it has nothing to do with spells and everything to do with spirituality.

But on one level you are correct... to many, the "Golem" is merely harmless folklore. That's fine. No harm done. Just realize, that to others with a deeper understanding of its origins, it's part of an embarrassing bastardization of a sacred subject.

[Jami]

Bill Rectal, Talmud scholar????

Jami

[Bill Rectal]

Hardly. Just know a little something about the subject.

[gwhurls]

Sorry for asking (and BTW, no one bothers to say what would make the LL better)Actually, I did. I pointed out the problem issues as I saw them, which is the same thing. Turn a frown upside down, and all that.

[KeyframeCEO]

"The Golem, on the other hand, dates back to the middle ages in Europe when Jews were constantly living under precarious citizenship"

So, does this mean it's Mel Gibson's fault?

[dudeheimer]

Sorry cruelmessenger... The truth is that I actually could have chosen your script and didn't. That might be an indication of a problem with your logline. Or it might be an indication of my story preferences. Honestly, my recollection is that I remember thinking that the logline wasn't written very well and choosing one that I felt was better. It is certainly far from the worst logline I've read for this contest, but the bottom line is that it wasn't good enough to compel me to choose it.

If the critical comments regarding your logline set you off, you are in for a rough day next week. At least people are being honest with you. When Johnny Teenage rips your script apart, giving it all 1s and saying that your script is a total Lord of the Rings ripoff because it has a "Golem" character, you are going to really have something to be upset about.

Posting your logline here opened you up to honest critique. Getting upset about someones honest opinion doesn't bode well for your reaction to the kind of reviews PGL can bring.

[SlackWriter]

I've been watching these boards since I entered PGL3, and I will freely admit that it is mostly out of vanity that I have been stalking the posts. I skim past the petty bickering and the nitpickings of the PGL rules just to see what people believe are the best and worst scripts in the contest, wondering if just maybe, I might see my script. I don't feel too bad about doing this. I think deep down inside us most writers feel a need for some validation of their work. So, I will talk about the best and worst scripts that I have reviewed in the contest (I've done 15 reviews).

Early on in the contest, I saw one really bizarrely written logline. I read it 5 times, and the only reaction I had was "What the hell?" It was so incoherent that I had to show it to my wife and two other friends. They had the same reaction. I passed on that logline, but it became a running joke in our household. Later, I saw another one whose style was eerily similar to the first one. In fact, it got the same reaction - "What the hell?" I knew it had to have been written by the same writer who did the first one. Unable to resist the opportunity, I selected it. It was SO bad that it was funny...laugh out loud funny. Spelling...formatting...plot...characters...dialog ue...you name the problem; this script had it!

Later one of my writing friends who is in the contest got the 1st logline again, and he selected the script. Just as bad. We became obsessed and did some research on the two scripts. In fact, the same author wrote both of them years before this contest began. Thus, in the years before this contest began, the writer had the opportunity to try to fix the problems but didn't. He sent the two screenplays into the contest exactly as they were - DIDN'T CHANGE A WORD!

As bad as this author is, he inspires me. In spite of the odds...in spite of really bad writing, that writer believes in his work SO much that after years of rejection, he is still willing to pay at least $60 for a chance - not matter HOW remote - that his movies will get made. He is the "Ed Wood" of screenwriting, and his tenacity has my respect.

Now for the best (don't worry, I won't go as long this time).

The best screenplay I read dealt with a small group of people, struggling to survive after they are trapped together after a major disaster. It was a very dark tale, and I was riveted. I remember looking up at one point as I was reading it and realizing that I was over halfway done, and was so engrossed, that I didn't realize that any time had gone by. It got excellent marks from me across the board.

[NikeeGoddess]

write pro - they weren't yours were they? say it ain't so.

[CeeDub1]

hey cruelmessenger,

Don't let anyone bust your chops about this and don't be afraid of hurting someone’s feelings or whatever when you are writing. We are human, we are flawed and we say and write about life from many different, skewed and valid perspectives. So you keep it up. BTW, in my opinion "bastardizations" and cruel intentions can be the seeds for a truly haunted and riveting story. Symbolism is tried and true tool for storytelling.

cw

[OkeyDokey]

Sorry for asking (and BTW, no one bothers to say what would make the LL better)- did I sweat someone? I thought the old PGL boards were bad. Didn't expect a room of unfriendlies.

I don't see that anyone has been that unfriendly or harsh on you, cruelmessenger.

If you would like feedback on improving your logline, post it in the loglines section.

[SlackWriter]

Regarding the bad screenplays mentioned in my other post, sometimes I wonder if the author of them is actually a comedic genius. He is at least a comedy savant.

If they were shot exactly as they were written, the movies would be on par with "Plan 9 from Outer Space" and "Manos: the Hands of Fate". I could easily see the folks from "Mystery Science Theater 3000" coming out of retirement to do a show about the movies.

[shams]

I had your script in my choice of three, cruelmessenger. And to be honest, it was the most interesting of the three so I will be reading it tomorrow. The other loglines, one was too long and rambled and the other was not interesting to me.

[jbharris]

Hey all,

I've been going through the posts just like everyone else looking for some vague notion that someone might have read mine. I finally saw a reference but there was no opinon on it! 99 out a 100 the script was mine, but the description of it was akin to calling a James Bond film a government agent on sabatical. Hopefully they read more into my story than just the vague notion that floated to the top. Oh well, I guess that is better than hearing the worst. Anyways I wanted to add the scripts I read.
The first I read was a little rough. It was a cross between rainman and the usual suspects. Needed more developing.
Then I read a good one based on an evil knife that was hard for me to put down. Originality was an issue and it fizzled out at the end, but nonetheless it entertained.
The third one I read had the best formatting out of the bunch, but it was bad. Set in Vegas with the worst dialogue I could of imagined.
I just started on a homophobic detective tracking down a gay basher script. I have only read the first 15 pages but it is obvious that it was written by someone with talent. I hope the plot is strong enough to hold the story together.

Best of luck on Thursday.

[hollygolightly72]

Throwing in my 2 cents. I read 4 scripts. None of which I thought were fabulous.

1st one: average writer, no real plot, story and characters very unappealing.

2nd one: Good idea, especially for the $1mil budget. Bad writer, horrible execution and even worse dialogue

3rd one: Mediocre vampire flick. Writer wrote very good action sequences but dialogue was painfully bad. Story was unoriginal.

4th one: Delightful idea. Slightly better than average writing but mediocre execution. Has the most potential out of the 4 I read - in my opinion. I scored this one the best.

[KeyframeCEO]

"I just started on a homophobic detective tracking down a gay basher..."

Is it just me or was there an abundance of "gay" themed scripts?

I had four or more out of 19. Most of them had the same problem (among other things) in that the focus ends up being so much on the "gay lifestyle" aspect of it or gratuitous sex that it totally veers away from the story.

Told one person, "If this is a gay drama about the church trying to rehab the gays, then make it about that. If it's about a guy trying to find buried silver on an island (like the logline describes it), then make it about that. Make up your mind".

Don't know, maybe they're actually bi-plottual. He he he!

[dudeheimer]

I read one where the police were tracking a serial killer. The logic trail that followed:

1. The serial killer is neat. (he cleaned up the blood at one crime scene)
2. Gay people are neat.
3. The serial killer is therefore obviously gay.

Seriously, the only clue was the neatness.

The detective posts an ad on a gay website (secretly, of course for fear that others would think he was gay) and (of course) the serial killer just happens to pick victims from the gay personals.

[TheKeenGuy]

I read one that was a buddy cop movie where the two cops fall in love. I thought the premise was absolutely hilarious, but the screenwriter went the absolute wrong way with it, making it nearly a farce (and an insidiously hateful one at that, posing as a gay-friendly in order to make fun of homosexuality at any moemnt possible). THe movie tried to play on cop-movies, pretty much the way Showtime did, except even less in touch with reality... the fact is, the writer should have made the movie a straight-faced satire, but I don't think the writer was capable. I told him to abandon the script because he probably doesn't even realize how hateful the script is.

[Hallama]

from Slack:

If they were shot exactly as they were written, the movies would be on par with "Plan 9 from Outer Space" and "Manos: the Hands of Fate". I could easily see the folks from "Mystery Science Theater 3000" coming out of retirement to do a show about the movies.

I reviewed one SP that reminded me of my love for B movies as a teenager in the ilk of Toxic Avenger. Anybody remember that movie?

The only problem is I still can't figure out if the writer was just messing with my mind or if it was indeed, really that bad.

Either way, it received the second highest marks of the scripts I reviewed. LOL.

[Hallama]

I really loved one SP I read for PGL 3. Between PGL 2 & 3 this SP was by faaaaaaar the best I've read.

It was about a man chasing down another man who he thinks is the devil. Very gritty in a Se7en type of way. Nice twist ending. Very crisp writing, nothing wasted. Perfect PGL movie if it advances...

...for all of you wondering if it was 'your' script, the would-be-devil's name is 'Bob'.

Ha!

[TheKeenGuy]

I actually really enjoyed one script I read that was a mockumentary (which hadn't even occured to me as a genre to submit to PGL). The movie actually should be a straight-to-DVD release, specifically because the premise is that it is the bonus materials on a DVD for a bad sci-fi film.

The thing is, I don't often enjoy mockumentaries (the Christopher Guest movies are laughless to me), I usually really dislike industry movies... but this script managed to be this wonderful, chaotic, absurdly funny mess that actually managed to address amateur Hollywood in an interesting, unique way.

It didn't follwo the three act structure, it didn't have a climax to speak of, but as a DVD release, I think it'd be a fantastic watch. I'd buy it, in any case. I hope the screenwriter gets it produced before another person does the same thing, except not funny (so don't you do it!!!).

[SlackWriter]

Oh yeah, I have a nice fondness for bad movies. I subscribe to the Horseshoe Theory of Movie Entertainment, which states that as the quality of movies approach the extremes of good or bad in terms of quality, the entertainment value of those movies goes up.

Well, the scripts that I was talking about weren't in the horror genre, but I really think they were just that bad. Both of them were more along the lines of political dramas. Between the author’s tendency to make up new hyphenated words, his love of quotation marks, and bad spelling and grammatical errors, I fear the comedy wasn't intentional.

[roshrin]

I read one called 'EVEN STEVEN' which I found addictive despite it's audacity. He even warned about the excessive violence and sex. It was way over the top for PGL (an NC-17 at least) and very off the wall but the dialogue was exquisite.

My other 4 were snorers with way too many holes to fill and one even forgot to add a plot!

[SlackWriter]

Yeah, I read a really long one that may be over the top on the sex angle. It was a really long one, but pretty good. I think a lot of it would have to be cut for it to be made. That's a shame, because as I said, it was a pretty good one.

[SlackWriter]

As the deadline approaches, the tension builds and the contestants grow more and more paranoid and grumpy...LET THE PGL DEATHMATCH BEGIN!:b

[FluffyUnbound]

You seem like an honest and decent person, I see you post all over -

BUT

- you have been talking about this script for 2 weeks now and it is starting to seem...odd.

I still don't think that you are pimping, but I can certainly understand where someone else might think that you are.

Oh well, it doesn't matter now anyway. No more time to review anything one way or the other.

I read a script called "The 12 Apostles" which would do very well if it got a fair read. I don't think it will get picked, though, because when the pro readers get it they are going to say, "It's fake Tarantino. KILL IT," despite the fact that it's very well done fake Tarantino and would be a nice entertaining little flick.

It's funny: I think my own script is too "out there" to win - but then the best script that I read, that isn't my own, is too "derivative" to win. Originality kills and non-originality kills. It's a tough bid'ness.

[psychicmuse]

I don't get you people.

Why are people SO DEATHLY afriad to talk about the good scripts?

Even if you think you have reasons, I guarantee you that I will disagree with them and have my own personal take on why its okay to talk about the contest.

I read a script called "Chin Music" which I loved. I thought it was f&&king hysterical.

My only problem with it, was that I thought it was possible that some of the lines, the funny ones, I'd heard in something else, possibly the Simpsons.

But the premise was great, the story was funny as hell the characters were engaging, likeable.

It was awesome, I loved it like my first kiss.

I wanted to run DIRECTLY to Christopher Guest's office and yell outside of his window "Dude, I found your next Mockumentary".

If someone other than Christopher Guest wrote this, I can only imagine how great it would be to get him and this original writer to collaborate on it.

I got really excited reading it. I think I wet my pants.

But that's what makes me love scriptwriting and filmmaking, the ability to discover something really great, that I really like and to enjoy the idea of it coming to fruition.

Chin Music. I know someone else who got it and liked it.

Bottom line is, If I was a producer, I'd have checked out the issues that i had with it thouroughly and then if I found out that the lines weren't already used in other films, I'd go for it.

Very good. something familiar about it, but very good.

[roshrin]

of the 5 I read, I wasn't impressed at all with any of them. I wish I could give some kudos...

[Bill Rectal]

Hey Psychic, slow down and relax. You can start pimping your script in earnest as soon as the PGL boards open.

[RealIllbill]

I have to admit that most of what I read was a chore so far... It seems I picked the scripts where the people didn't even bother to spell check. However, I did read a decent teen slasher flick that reminded me a bit of the old Nightmare on Elm St. and Friday the 13th movies. Not overly imaginative but well put together and even kind of funny in places. It at least followed the old fashioned slasher flick formula. Plus the killer had a pretty goofy name. It was my highest rated.

[Sombida]

I read a very well written drama that made me cry. I realized I was getting teary eyed while it was happening, and I was like, hey, damn, this thing made me FEEL! It was 'bout an old man on his deathbed, reliving his life, and him thinking back on his favorite daughter who died of a brain tumor. Heavy stuff. This person had it all. Good read.
No vampires or thrills and chills, just life.

[Jack0902]

The best script I read was a vampire script called Initiation.

[catz1]

t was 'bout an old man on his deathbed, reliving his life, and him thinking back on his favorite daughter who died of a brain tumor.

I teared up just thinking about it. Yikes.:(

[psychicmuse]

I just want to tell you both good luck, we're all counting on you


(When I like something, I talk about it. Its all perfectly normal behavior to those who didn't enter scripts, OK?)

[Hallama]

Re: BEST PGL 3 SCREENPLAYS?
I just want to tell you both good luck, we're all counting on you

Do you like to watch Gladiator movies?

[KeyframeCEO]

Do you like to watch Gladiator movies?

"Timmy, have you ever seen a grown man naked?"

[SebsWrtrDad]

I reviewed 7 and several really needed help, two were good middle drafts but two I really loved. One was a horror about some guy who can predict death by having visions of numbers (that's actually not a good logline of it at ll). It was creepy, well plotted, dialogue worked really well - there were some problems, but not alot.

The other was kinda a thriller -- it spent too much time with secondary characters. But all those characters were really rich and their dialogue was right on. It took place in Ireland, following a woman being hunted by the cops and some mobsters. I really liked those.

Glad I read some extra - the early ones were not good. But I hit roll at the end -- hope the numerology one makes the cut. (As long as mine does too!):D

[psychicmuse]

"Timmy, have you ever seen a grown man naked?"

"There is only one RIVER!!!!!!!!"

[KinTar]

hdmdc--

I'm sure someone else has responded to this already, but it's going to take me some time to get through these messages and I don't want to forget.

You mention "ones who couldn't read the rules." There is NOTHING in the rules that says only horror/thriller is being accepted. It says that extra weight will be given to those scripts, but all genres are being accepted. So I guess you can put yourself into a category of "ones who didn't read the rules closely."

However, I do agree with you that it's scary to think that some pretty horrible writers are also reviewing possibly good scripts and will decide if they get past the first round. These are the people ruining this contest, IMO. In fact, I directly made comments to this effect toward one writer, because he didn't have the skills needed to effectively judge a journal entry, let alone a screenplay (I was much kinder than this, of course).

The only flaw that I can still find with this contest is that not enough time is used to throughly go through the approximate 33,000 reviews. It's just too easy to torpedo a good script. I didn't have that problem, since there were only two good ones (I might logline them later) and was more than happy to give them good marks. But I'm curious to know, since a horror/thriller is given higher marks than a drama, if a reviewer coudl handicap a good script just by "accidentally" marking a H/T script as a drama.

[KinTar]

I sure wish I knew the inner workings of the contest to see how my reviews will be judged. It seems that I rated the scripts I read lower than other people did. Very few even made it to fair ... most were closer to poor. I think I gave three of them 1's across the board. Yes, they were that bad.

When I did find a very good one, though, about a random incident concerning a mustard bottle, I praised it higher than I might normally have, because of the fear of being shut out of the contest by Miramax/Liveplanet. What sucks is that if I did get shut out because of my reviews, I would never be told. I'm guessing, however, that since there are at least 33,000 reviews to go through, that the quality of reviews really won't matter much until they go from the 1000 scripts down to the top 100.

In each review, however, I gave as many notes as possible. In fact, there were several times -- out of the fifteen I read -- that I had to transfer the critique to a word processing program with a word count. Once, I edited down to exactly 2000 characters. I wanted to be sure to give as much praise or criticism as possible -- I was constructive on all but one script, and I actually edited down my rant so as not to tick off PGL, although the script deserved much worse -- because last year, one script I had entered was given all 10's (or maybe 12's, whatever it was) by one reviewer and all 1's by another. Neither gave me any notes.

[KinTar]

"It was about a man chasing down another man who he thinks is the devil. Very gritty in a Se7en type of way. Nice twist ending. Very crisp writing, nothing wasted. Perfect PGL movie if it advances...

...for all of you wondering if it was 'your' script, the would-be-devil's name is 'Bob'."33


Hallama--

Wow. I think this is mine. If not, it would be an amazing coincidence. My main protagonist was (at least you think) a tabloid reporter.

[KinTar]

SebsWrtrDad--

Did the numerology one start off with an old woman's cat getting killed?

[Hallama]

Yep, it's gotta be yours...

Great job...I gave you perfecto scores. All 12's. But you'll see that soon enough.

I gave you my email in my review comments. I hope to talk to you about it more if you want.

Easily the best script I read in my reviews.

[SebsWrtrDad]

It 'officially' started off with the MC running into a house after much of the film's events had taken place. Then we 'flash back' to three kids driving and, yes, an old woman's cat is killed.

[blackrooster]

Hi Hallama,

This is KinTar (and also jimbeck, which I accidentally posted with somewhere above, I believe). I was having trouble getting into other message boards by EZBoards, so I created a brand spanking new ID. I actually did this with jimbeck, but I realized that I don't want everyone to automatically know my full name. I'll only be using BlackRooster from now on.

To prove it's me, my main character was named Preston. :-)

Thank you very much for the kind comments. It's really cool of you to post so positively. I was actually shocked that anyone on the board would just happen to read my script.

I just checked the PGL website and I'm happy as a clam. Not only did my script advance, as you predicted, all five of mine (yes, five -- fifteen reviews) advanced. I took a risk entering so many, but maybe it'll pay off. My username is jimbeck, if you want to see the others.

I still can't figure out how to see my reviews, but the site is pretty darn busy.

[meat pickle99]

5 for 5? wow. congrats

[psychicmuse]

YAY CHIN MUSIC!!!

[Hallama]

Great job, rooster! That should increase your odds just a hair...

...if the others were as good as Atonement, this contest is yours...lol

My SP made it to the next round as well: Cougar and Bunny Go On the Lam

[blackrooster]

Once things settle down today (actually tomorrow -- I'm swamped today), I'll e-mail you. Maybe we can swap a script or two. I'd definitely like to read one of yours that placed.

Atonement remains my best, IMO, plus it's gotten some praise from contests and the like. The closest in quality is probably Forgotten, about a guy who travels back in time and kills another guy, who is then erased from the timeline. I'm rewriting a new one for Benderspink (a spec) that is shaping up pretty well, but the visual effects alone would cost more than a million.

If I have a chance to win, it will probably be with either Atonement and Forgotten. Of the other three, one is a high school drama, one is underdeveloped and the other is overwritten.