Movie Implausibilites

[Authorized]

There appears to be more implausibility creep in Hollywood movies these days with the advent of additional pressure to generate cookie cutter, formulaic studio projects on tighter schedules.

For example,

Pitch Black - implausibility of a species that DIES in sunlight, evolving on a planet with three suns, not to mention the fact that the species also appears to feed off itself!

Other movie implausiblity examples that escaped creative execs?

[writerly]

i think these have probably been mentioned in some thread somewhere...

ok, even though it was fun, SIGNS, made no sense.
You could take out all the aliens with a garden hose.

DAY AFTER TOMORROW, it was like people didn't understand snow. and this guy just snowshoes from philly to nyc, come on!

[whitenavel]

Phantom of the Opera made no sense.

[Authorized]

Navel. Old news...

FYI. The Phantom of the Opera movie 2 Set DVD is the No. 1 best seller on Amazon.com. Now 1,000,000+ buyers all can't be wrong? Can they?

[Authorized]

Another implausibility...

Absolute Power - we're asked to believe that President [Gene Hackman] ditched a party to have a tryst with his best friend's wife, and only two secret service men (and aide Judy Davis) know of his whereabouts? Don't those guys have to keep in constant contact with each other while guarding the chief exec? Shouldn't police detective Ed Harris be able to solve the murder without Clint's help?

[Pen Dragon]

I wanna know why Samuel Jackson and Travolta could blast away in that apartment in Pulp Fiction, kill 3 people, and not disturb any of their neighbors enough to call the cops.

in fact I nominate that entire movie as implausible

[boski62]

Borrowed from another thread, but fits better here:

Breakdown is a well written thriller screenplay by writer/director Jonathan Mostow (T3 and T4).

Except I have one big issue with this story: the inciting incident is highly (if not completely) implausible.

Would any man you know actually let his wife hitch a ride alone from an OTR trucker in the middle of nowhere? For no more compelling reason than he thinks he sould stay behind and keep an eye on the car? Talk about priority issues!

If you're a man, can you picture yourself doing that? If you're a woman, would you be comfortable doing that? And what would you think of a husband/boyfriend who thought that was a perfectly good idea?

Major implausibility to kick off the story, but I agree, it works pretty well from there. I liked it overall.

And I like seeing implausibilities like this tolerated and forgiven all the way through production and release. Gives me hope that some of the ones in my scripts won't sink their chances.

[Salazkin]

For no more compelling reason than he thinks he sould stay behind and keep an eye on the car? Talk about priority issues!:lol Excellent example, Boski. That's just the type of sh1t I positively hate. And I can't forgive it.

[Syntaur]

SPECIES 3... A evil female hybrid human/alien chases our hero down the hall of a college dorm... And our hero runs pass a young woman who also lives in the dorm... before ducking into a open dorm room just as the evil hybrid human/alien closes in... Missing our hero... the evil hybrid human/alien savagely murders the young woman in the hall... before taking off back down the hall to grab our hero's roommate... Seeing she is gone our hero runs out of the dorm room in which he has been hiding and gives chase... exiting the dorm in time to see the hybrid alien and roommate speed off in Ferrari.... He then meets a mysterious government official who has been sitting in his car watching the incident... and the two calmly walk back into the dorm and have a calm discussion in our hero's room... NOT ONE MENTION OR ACTION TAKEN ABOUT THE SAVAGELY MURDERED YOUNG WOMAN IN THE NEARBY HALLWAY... AS IF... OH NOT IMPORTANT... NOT A SINGLE COP CAR OR AMBULANCE AS THE WALK OUT AND DRIVE AWAY AFTER THE ALIEN... CAN YOU SAY STORYLINE HOLE?:)

[CaptainJSparrow]

Oh looks this is everywhere, you could spends years jotting it all down.

Anakin: "I killed them! I killed them all! They're dead, every single one of them! And not just the men, but the women and the children, too!! I slaughtered them like animals! I HATE THEM!!!

then Padme is like: "Shhh, it's okay. To be angry is to be human." and she gives him a hug.

WHAT THE?!

[AnconRanger]

million dollar baby.

million dollar talent.

million dollar story.

don't matter much.

insert talent and woman's need to box here (and what is the reason?), insert long voice over, over and over there, to make up for real story, insert cliche redneck family where needed, etc.

-spoilers-

insert stool! and mean boxer opponent! she's mean and daggonit, she looks mean.

woman boxer we like soon is in a hospital and trying to kill herself...the fighter she is and everything. can't box no more and all of that.

guy helps her end her woes. he owned the gym and trained her, against his most troublesome feelings.

she dies. he killed her.

guy eats real lemon pie.

stretch from point a to point z.

okeydoke.

the end.

shame everyone doesn't have to work harder these days.

shame. almost implausible.

this was a great movie?

boo.

booooooo......

[writerly]

:lol

[Salazkin]

A better movie (from 2004) you might name.

[s1eve]

The Interpreter!

As one critic quoted, "The film hangs on the premise that any enterprising assassin can turn the General Assembly Hall into a shooting gallery."

And who the hell around here speaks Ku, eh?

[Fortean]

Amsterdam Vallon, the son of an Irish Catholic priest, seeks revenge upon his father's murderer, William 'Bill the Butcher' Cutting....

The son of an Irish Catholic priest!?!

Was there some back story that I missed? Like a virgin birth, or something?

[habronic]

Minority Report

anderton is the most wanted fugitive in town. when he's retina scanned on the train it triggers a police chase and he has to have his eyes replaced in order to walk around.

then we're meant to believe he can use his old eyes to break in the back door of the police station...

ANY SYS-ADMIN ALIVE WOULD'VE REMOVED HIS ACCESS PRIVILEGES THE MOMENT HE WAS A SUSPECT!!!!!!!

it's ridiculous.

he gets caught walking onto a train, but he easily accesses the most important room of the pre-crime system! all the security systems would have access to the same network and any attempts would throw up a red flag.

and as if retina scans would let you use a dead eye. they would require blood flow in the eye in order to stop criminals mugging you, scooping your eyes out and robbing your ATM account.

[Tuco]

Gary and Wyatt making a real woman using only their computer and wearing bras on their heads.


It does not work.

Totally f*cking implausible!




"Consider outer space. From the time of the first NASA mission it became evident that being in outer space has a profound effect on the human psyche. During the first Gemini mission, some followers were actually given to the notion of sending a man and a woman together. Cosmic Adam and Eve if you will, bound together in a highly sophisticated nerve center at the head of the most powerful rocket yet known. Its giant thrusters blasting into the dark void as they hurtle toward their final destination: the gushing wellspring of life itself. (Beat) How would you like to have a sexual encounter so intense it could conceivably change your political views?"

-- Gib, The Sure Thing

[Edison Vandall]

King Kong - they don't make apes that big. IMPLAUSIBLE!

[Biohazard EHW]

Reservoir Dogs: Despite the fact that all the criminals are supposed to know nothing about each other, they pick up Tim Roth's character AT HIS HOUSE.

[Writer1]

Would any man you know actually let his wife hitch a ride alone from an OTR trucker in the middle of nowhere? For no more compelling reason than he thinks he sould stay behind and keep an eye on the car? Talk about priority issues!
Actually, YES!
My soon-to-be bride's ex-husband, a service manager at a car dealership, sent a car and driver for his very sick and pregnant wife instead of taking her to the hospital himself. Geez.

[boski62]

My soon-to-be bride's ex-husband, a service manager at a car dealership, sent a car and driver for his very sick and pregnant wife instead of taking her to the hospital himself. Geez.

Geez, is right. Wonder why he's an ex-husband??? Hmm... Know it's not funny to your fiance', but that would be an excellent bit for a comedy movie... Congrats on the upcoming nutpials.

One point about movie implausibilities, though--they can't be defended simply by resort to the argument that "I know/heard of some idiot who actually did that..." Unless, of course, the character portrayed in the movie IS supposed to be an idiot or buffoon; then it's not an implausibility but just a bit of comic schtick.

But if the character is supposed to be a reasonably intelligent character behaving believably in a serious film--like all the one's listed so far--then the "Well, some idiot somewhere in space and time has actually done that..." defense isn't valid at all.

Because we all know some human mutant/aberration has probably committed every imaginable idiocy and stupidity humanly possible during the history of the race. Every implausibilities covered that way, I'm sure. I know I've covered a few of them myself.

[Edison Vandall]

Boski: sounds plausible to me.

[Salazkin]

Exactly, Bosk. The permissibility of "implausibilities" varies considerably by genre. In fact, I think I'll start a thread on this (in Screenwriting III), because I think it an interesting subject.

[Authorized]

Because we all know some human mutant/aberration has probably committed every imaginable idiocy and stupidity humanly possible during the history of the race. Every implausibilities covered that way, I'm sure. I know I've covered a few of them myself.

Well said, Boski. But, when Script "A" is suppose to be in shooting script mode and the actors and the directors still overlook an implausibility imbedded in the script, then that is horridly unconscionable.

Another movie example,

I, Robot- one scene has Detective Spooner incredibly fighting off hordes of robots while driving 125 MPH and then spinning inside his car fast enough to make a seasoned astronaut puke. Time and again, I said to myself: never happen. Sure, most movies can never happen, that’s the point: escape reality and have fun, but stretch plausibility too much and it ruins the experience.

[Pencey]

Minority Report

anderton is the most wanted fugitive in town. when he's retina scanned on the train it triggers a police chase and he has to have his eyes replaced in order to walk around.

then we're meant to believe he can use his old eyes to break in the back door of the police station...

ANY SYS-ADMIN ALIVE WOULD'VE REMOVED HIS ACCESS PRIVILEGES THE MOMENT HE WAS A SUSPECT!!!!!!!

it's ridiculous.

he gets caught walking onto a train, but he easily accesses the most important room of the pre-crime system! all the security systems would have access to the same network and any attempts would throw up a red flag.

and as if retina scans would let you use a dead eye. they would require blood flow in the eye in order to stop criminals mugging you, scooping your eyes out and robbing your ATM account

Minority Report was a steaming pile of contrived crap...

[Evil Elf the One and Only]

Even allowing some leeway (okay, miles of leeway) for the genre, Van Helsing was so far out into Implausible Land that it might as well have been off-planet. It was positively hallucinogenic!

However...

That's one of the major reasons I enjoyed it. It was simply, utterly and completelly ridiculous, the most expensive B movie ever made. Okay, D movie. Without the incredible implausibilities that took it from merely bad to hysterical, it would have been a waste of celluloid and two hours of my time. As it was, piling idiocy upon idiocy and blowing things up bigger and hairier every time, it was actually a laff riot.

Now, the question of whether they intended it to be this way or thought the world was stupid enough to swallow this thing whole is another question entirely.

It Was A Good Trip (http://terminalcity.diary-x.com)

[bottomlesscup]

In my favorite Guilty Pleasure, "The Fifth Element," they firmly establish the security of Floston Paradise, especially since the Diva and various dignitaries are on board. Yet, somehow, a whole army of the ugly warrior aliens make it on board with a massive arsenal.

[Biohazard EHW]

Minority Report was a steaming pile of contrived crap...

and it's still fifty times better than mostly everything else that comes out these days.

[Salazkin]

Agreed, Bio. Minority Report is a very good film. I loved it.

[billythrilly7]

LOVED Minority Report.

Nuff said.

[Pen Dragon]

Minority Report was a turkey, as bad as anything turned out in the last 10 years. Sorry but you guys are wrong

[Salazkin]

You didn't like it. That's cool. But this: as bad as anything turned out in the last 10 yearsis unmitigated hyperbole, good buddy.

Case in point: www.rottentomatoes.com/m/minority_report/ (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/minority_report/)

No fewer than 196 of 212 film critics (92 percent) gave it a thumbs up.

[Pen Dragon]

Come on Sal, how could you have fallen for that mess. The plotholes, the OTN exposition, the glaringly obvious red herring, the ridiculous keystone cops chase through the mall, the tacked on and overdirected villain gets his ending...the headache inducing cinematography...

It was Spielberg at his worst. We're talking as bad as The Lost World here.

Hating this risible piece of tripe was the only thing Whitta and I ever had in common in this forum. Are you going to trust the power of that or the mindless opinions of a few bought off critics?

[billythrilly7]

I trust the opinion of a Thrilly and an honorary Thrilly.

"We don't need no stinkin critics."

It was a great movie and I DON'T EVEN LIKE THIS THREAD!!!

EVERY MOVIE IS IMPLAUSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF or BUST!!

Minority Report was a great movie.

IT'S ALL SUBJECTIVE and I don't even know what "exposition" means nor do I care. (I do, but I love it. Fill me in. Tell me everything.)

IN SPIELBERG I TRUST

[Pen Dragon]

nevermind

[billythrilly7]

worst.thread.ever.

:lol

[Salazkin]

You make me laugh, Pen. Here's how I see it: Minority Report was a very ambitious story. I'll invoke the Olympics analogy, where the result of one's effort is the product of two factors - level of difficulty and execution.

If most films are level of difficulty 6 or 7, then Minority Report was level of difficulty 10. Of the former, even those films with flawless execution (and they are very few in number) might well leave the viewer utterly bored or unmoved (though the academic - like so many of us here - will marvel at the technical beauty). Minority Report, on the other hand, may have scored a 6 on execution, but it dazzles with novelty and inspiration. It tackles a profound philosophical issue (the notion of pre-judgment, as it speaks to the infinitesmal line between thought and action). Given the time limitations of a feature-length film and the degree to which their reality differed from ours, the exposition was unavoidable and IMO, executed satisfactorily.

As for plot holes, I found them to be not so significant and ultimately forgivable. Not unlike a group of often unreliable friends who are nevertheless good-hearted and bring you much joy.

[CaptainJSparrow]

No way, Minority Report (and A.I for that matter) were boring as all hell.

Speilberg should stick to making dinosaur films and indy flicks, all of his supposedly darker, psuedo-intelligent stories just come out as this overblown tripe, like some geek's take on 'serious' issues. It's always so heavyhanded and usually still oh so syrupy in the end.

He should stick to his strength, simple entertaining films. It's like listening to George Lucas saying he wants to make serious movies, and not Starwars anymore. Dumb idea. If your strengths are making dino flicks or space operas then don't waste time trying to be Tarkovsky, it just plays to your weaknesses.

[Pen Dragon]

Minority Report became too ambitious for its own good when Spielberg insisted, like with AI, that it had to have a positive ending.

All Minority Report was was Logan's run with croquet balls

I will make you see the light, sal

[SMEAC]

Minority Report was a steaming pile of contrived crap...

...but at least it looked cool. As much as I loathe films CGI'd to death, this one was good.

[habronic]

minority report was meant to be an ambiguous ending.

anderton is caught, he's halo'd and taken to the containment facility. as he's being placed in the long tube thing with the other prisoners the guy in the wheelchair says something like "you have visions, they say all your dreams come true."

anderton's dreams would've been solving the crime, freeing the pre-cogs and getting back with his wife (who becomes pregnant).

i think it was intended to be a play on the quintessential speilberg ending, when in fact it was meant to be dark (or at least murky).

and i take no responsibility for this thread being derailed. :)

[Authorized]

Roger Ebert's example definition of implausiblity in
films.

For example, "We're Alive, Let's Kiss" ending scenes...

eg.typepad.com/eg/2005/02...ity_i.html (http://eg.typepad.com/eg/2005/02/inevitability_i.html)

[RKBentley]

Can we add Anakin Skywalker's imaculate conception to the list?

[writerly]

thx authorized, but look at movie like THE AFRICAN QUEEN, a great film that has this type of ending.

[mdbftp]

In Monty Python and the Holy Grail the Knights Who Until Recently Said "Ni" claim they can't stand the word "it" and even looking past the fact you won't get very far in life not saying "it" they themselves say it several times.

[BeefMissile]

In the recent Robert Redford film; The Clearing, several events happen that are just to hard to accept in normal life:

The bad guy sets up this big plan to kidnap Redford then spends the money in local supermarkets/stores, knowing full well the police/FBI were involved.

Also, how can a supermarket manager spot serial numbers, not anything strange about a $100.00 but the numbers, know they may be part of an FBI investigation and contact the police. I could see if a store manger found bills that looked fake but numbers???

The film was well acted and well made, but these minor flaws got to me. I think film critic Richard Roper brought up the same issues in his TV review of The Clearing.

8)

[Edison Vandall]

I liked Minority Report but where were the Mexicans?

[Loaded 4 Bear]

You musta been takin a piss during that scene.

[bottomlesscup]

I liked Minority Report but where were the Mexicans?

Dude, haven't you seen Star Trek? There are no hispanics in the future.

[Loaded 4 Bear]

There are no hispanics in the future.Dude, that is cold. :lol

[creativexec]

MINORITY REPORT? Did someone say MINORITY
REPORT?

[Pencey]

Oh oh...

Here comes C.E. to defend it...

[BeefMissile]

The 1989 Denver Broncos!!!!

:rollin

[creativexec]

Here comes C.E. to defend it...
:D


I've done all my defending.

As Sal points out, with 93% of the nation's
critics supporting the film, it doesn't need
me to defend it.

Despite some of the script's miscues, I do
believe it is smartly written and beautifully
structured.

If MR's detractors have a better script in
their hard drive - I'd like to see it.


:D

[A Pathetic Writer]

I liked Minority Report. Except for the Lexus. I wouldn't buy that.

[Pen Dragon]

CE...I'm disillusioned now. Take another gander and snap out of it

[Salazkin]

he he

[creativexec]

Take another gander and snap out of it

I have it on DVD and talk about it in my
class all the time.

I feel confident in my assessment of the
overall quality of the script.

My offers stands, Pen, if you've got
something better - I'll look at it.

And since "Minority Report was a turkey,
as bad as anything turned out in the last
10 years," you must have something
better.

:D

[vmf]

I feel confident in my assessment of the overall quality of the script.

CE, is the actual script that much better than the movie? I realize things change from paper to the final product, but I cannot believe the movie's glaring faults were not present in the screenplay.

[Jitter Bug]

ignore me

[Pen Dragon]

CE...if I wrote that ridiculous OTN discussion in the greenhouse, killed Farrell's character off by copying 2 pages from the LA Confidential script, and tried to be funny with the old badguys-get-knocked-over-when someone-bends-over-to pick-up-a-penny trick, not to mention making it easy for Cruise to use his eyeballs to enter the precinct even after he became a fugitive, and a few other glowing problems, you'd rip me ass to eyebrows and you know it.

I might not have anything better. But at least I've got nothing with a 4 page block of exposition masquerading as a conversation between talking heads, and an out of place tacked on happy ending.

[Loaded 4 Bear]

Minority Report had more inventiveness in a single frame than most movies do in their entirety. To lambaste it for being cliche and derivative seems a bit misplaced.

[creativexec]

CE...if I wrote that ridiculous OTN discussion in the greenhouse, killed Farrell's character off by copying 2 pages from the LA Confidential *****, and tried to be funny with the old badguys-get-knocked-over-when someone-bends-over-to pick-up-a-penny trick, not to mention making it easy for Cruise to use his eyeballs to enter the precinct even after he became a fugitive, and a few other glowing problems, you'd rip me ass to eyebrows and you know it.

I might not have anything better. But at least I've got nothing with a 4 page block of exposition masquerading as a conversation between talking heads, and an out of place tacked on happy ending.


I don't think I'd rip you ass to eyebrows if
you had a great concept, a backstory
skillfully woven into the front story, external
conflict that works at cross-purposes with
internal conflict, an inspired low point to
the finale of act two - and great moments
like the shopping mall scene with Cruise
and Mathis - and Mathis' wonderful third
act speech.

The "eyeball" complaint is so pedestrian.
I hear that from people who know nothing
about script construction. I would expect
writers around here to see the more
elusive points to the drama - elements
that are invisible to the laymen.

I'm not saying I disagree with this note or
the others you've listed (though I do like
the greenhouse scene very much and the
scene had to be OTN because it was a red
herring), but these complaints are minuscule
in comparison to the narrative achievements
penned by Scott Frank.



:)

[Authorized]

penned by Scott Frank.

A writer credit also went to the original adaptation hack, Jon Cohen, and bookoo note sessions occurred between Director Stephen Spielberg and Scott Frank. It helps when you have creative inputs from Spielberg. Not all us can be so lucky...

[Pen Dragon]

The "eyeball" complaint is so pedestrian.

maybe so, but my eyes were doing more rolling in that scene than Cruise's were when he dropped them on the floor.

[Vining Wolff]

rip you ass to eyebrows

First off I'd like to say OW

Second I'd like to say that I enjoyed minority report quite a bit (bought it). The only part that my wife and I didn't really like was the whole expository rehash of the plot by cruise at the end. In our mind it was completely unwarranted as everything was clear already.

[Loaded 4 Bear]

I found the eyeball scene rather short sighted. :eek

[Mike Samonek]

bookoo


Has it come to this? Really?

[Loaded 4 Bear]

I believe that's the Philistinian spelling of beaucoup. :\

[Mike Samonek]

Actually, I just discovered that it is an accepted slang word. So, there you go. Carry on.

[Camera Obscura]

Bookoo is Vietnamese for "many" or "lots of". As a Vietnamese slang word, it also means "big c-ock". That is why the Vietnamese whore in FULL METAL JACKET is saying "bookoo" when she's refusing to have sex with the black soldier.

The origins of "bookoo" stems from the French word "beaucoup". The French occupied Vietnam, hence the heavy influence on the language.

[Salazkin]

Hence loaded's reference to said word (beaucoup) two posts previous. Though your description, CO, provides the much appreciated embellishments. :D

[Mike Samonek]

CO, I was able to figure out all that etymology on my own. After my first post I thought "Hm, actually, that probably isn't incorrect," and I looked it up. Hence my second post.

I am ashamed to admit this not because it shows that I was initially wrong (which is nothing new), but rather because it indictates that I spent even a moment of my time thinking about something Authorized posted. :lol

[refriedwhiskey]

As a Vietnamese slang word, it also means "big c-ock". That is why the Vietnamese whore in FULL METAL JACKET is saying "bookoo" when she's refusing to have sex with the black soldier.
I don't think it does mean "big c-ck" -- at least not the way it's used in Full Metal Jacket. The girl doesn't just say "bookoo" -- she says she won't do business with the black soldier because he's "too beaucoup." So the way she's using it, it just means "big," not "big c-ck."

And what an interesting turn this thread has now taken. :lol

[mdbftp]

a great concept, a backstory
skillfully woven into the front story, external
conflict that works at cross-purposes with
internal conflict, an inspired low point to
the finale of act two - and great moments
like the shopping mall scene with Cruise
and Mathis - and Mathis' wonderful third
act speech.

Everyone should paste that at the top of every script they're working on. And maybe repeat it every 5 pages so you don't forget.

CE, how would you feel about three out of four? (I need to look into internal conflict.)

[Will Write For Food]

I heard the language Ku was created for the movie Interpreter. It's not a real language.

And if we look at almost all movies, you'll find them to have some sort of "implausability." That's what makes movies fun. The belief in the nonbelievable.

Suspension of belief. Or hasn't that been preached enough?

[creativexec]

mdbftp,

The notion of using internal and external
conflicts at cross-purposes is not seen
much in scripts. The concept itself is
difficult to conceive.

In MINORITY REPORT, Cruise thrives on
PRECRIME, it is a vicarious way to save
his missing son. PRECRIME gives him the
power to prevent others from suffering
his loss. PRECRIME provides him with
some sort of spiritual solace.

Then PRECRIME accuses him of (not yet)
committing a murder and he goes on the
lam to prove his innocence.

But proving his innocence will show that
PRECRIME is fallible - which will destroy
PRECRIME (as it is set to go nationwide).

So, the pursuit of his external goal (to
clear his name) and the pursuit of his
internal goal (to find peace) work at
cross purposes, because by clearing
his name, he destroys the very thing
that brings him peace (PRECRIME).

The first act sets-up a win-lose situation
for Cruise: achieving his external goal
will leave him a ruined and empty man.
A perfect dramatic dilemma at the very
core of the narrative.

Christopher Nolan's film INSOMNIA has
the the same sort of win-lose dramatic
center.

We do see films where the character
fails at his external goal but wins at
his internal goal. But this provides a
happy ending (no real dilemma then),
and is often a product of the third act
(or even the climax) and not the set-up
meaning that most of the script does
not derive any dramatic momentum
from it.

The archetypal Hollywood dramatic
set-up between internal and external
conflict is the win-win scenario.

Using THE VERDICT (by Mamet) as one
example of millions, Paul Newman's
external goal is to win the case, and his
internal goal is to win back his integrity.

The construction sets-up the notion that
if he wins the case, he wins his integrity.
It is a win-win situation.

This is not as inherently dramatic as
the win-lose scenario - which makes
MINORITY REPORT unique in its dramatic
construction - in spite of its sillier beats.


:)

[Authorized]

CE, I would really enjoy your analysis of Dumb and Dumber.

[boski62]

CE,

Nice analysis! That one's going up on the bulletin board.

The notion of using internal and external conflicts at cross-purposes is not seen much in scripts. The concept itself is difficult to conceive.

Aside from the "win-lose" situation being difficult to conceive, I think there might be another, deeper reason why they appear only rarely in scripts. In thinking this over, it strikes me that there's probably something archetypal in the human psyche that prefers "win-win" situations.

Though, aesthetically, there may be something "inherently more dramatic in the win-lose scenario" in a mechanical/construction sense, I think there's something inherently LESS satisfying psychologically in this kind of story resolution.

Personally, we all want to win-win. That's the nature of the human mind. We passionately desire complete victories--not partial ones. The deepest desire beating inside almost every human heart is to win-win. To achieve our external goals AND to be a better person for it.

So when we see this outcome thwarted for the heroes of our stories, I think we're left with a bit of a hollow, unsatisfied feeling. It's experienced as a bit of a downer.

That's probably why:
The archetypal Hollywood dramatic set-up between internal and external conflict is the win-win scenario.

That's how the audience member watching the story unfold would like his/her own battles to be resolved--that's the resolution that resonates most deeply and personally with the individual viewers' desires.

[Camera Obscura]

Look at CE wave his "bookoo" around this thread.

[creativexec]

In thinking this over, it strikes me that there's probably
something archetypal in the human psyche that prefers
"win-win" situations.

I sure can't argue with this sort of logic.

But I think MINORITY REPORT ends with
a WIN-WIN - in spite of its WIN-LOSE
set-up.

I say this because his external goal (to
prove his innocence) takes him on a
psychological journey (his internal goal)
that allows him to find solace.

By the end of the story, he accepts his
son's fate and learns to accept fate in
general - allowing it to be controlled by
the forces of nature - instead of man.
(PRECRIME was the device that allowed
him to control fate.)

This is his arc.

He reunites with his wife and they start
over. (She is pregnant in the end.) His
internal goal - to find spiritual solace - is
achieved - just not exactly in the way he
thought he'd find it.

WIN-WIN.

So, it's more dramatically compelling to
start off WIN-LOSE and bring it around
(to keep audiences satisfied) with WIN-
WIN by the end.

Even Al Pacino finds the absolution for
his sins at the end of INSOMNIA (another
WIN-LOSE scenario).

Despite his demise, it's still a WIN-WIN
(albeit bittersweet) at fade out.

:D

[Gillyflower Cooms]

Always brilliant, ce. Fantastic observation that definitely goes a bit deeper than stray eyeballs. You're one of the few execs in town who really knows what he's doing. These kind of posts continue to prove why you're so respected around here and why the big names of the bizness sit up and listen to what you have to say. :hat

[CaptainJSparrow]

Yes, yes but none of this changes the fact that Minority Report is really, really dull.

The point is, it's sunk by a boring story. The pre-crime concept could have been interesting but the execution was poor. Maybe it is because the characters are all so, well... dull. Cruise and his lost kid, ho hum, Spielberg trying to be all serious. It just doesn't work. Nor was it in any way thrilling, it took so long to get anywhere.

What's with the silly girls in the water talking 'muuurrdeerr', what's with the wooden balls and stuff? I mean that's silly, save it for X-men.

And then there is the truly annoying characters like the Russian dude and his ugly assistant, I was watching that and thinking 'I don't believe it, Speilberg has lost his mind!', complete tripe, this is what happens when he watches Kubrick, he starts making total tripe, and then some ppl will worship this?!

On top of this, the future sux (big surprise) and is owned by Lexus. Not even any interesting visuals to get by on.

I did like the little spider robots scene, it was well shot, but other than that the film wasn't particularly clever, thrilling, emotional or scary. It was dull.

Mildly better than A.I. But still a brick.

[Gillyflower Cooms]

Personally, I liked the flick. Surely not perfection but hardly dull. It made about 350 world wide and critics creamed over it. So, its the naysayers that are delivering the real minority report. :smokin

[R.D. Wright]

How can this thread exist without any mention of THE TRANSPORTER movies, especially the second one? I was a little annoyed in #1 that the Transporter makes this amazing escape in that little car without realizing that the Asian chick is hiding in back. -- And how did she get in there, all tied up like she was?

But I finally surrendered all hope in #2 when the jet plunges nose-first into the ocean, and all that happens is that water gushes up into the cabin and knocks those two guys around.

I call it "stretching the credibility gap," only now it's become a canyon that even Evel Knievel would never attempt. I know that we are expected to suspend disbelief in action movies, but this continuous effort to make the world's most awesome movie has rendered the laws of physics obsolete. If the protagonist is never in any real danger of getting hurt, then why should we care what happens to him?

Even in CASINO ROYALE, which is supposed to get back to James Bond's roots, we see James jumping around on these steel beams and stuff, clutching onto them like some sort of gecko and never getting bruised or hurt or nuthin'!

I give up on this stuff. I want to see THE FRENCH CONNECTION again. :(

[R.D. Wright]

So the fact that the guy removed the bomb strapped to the underside of the car by making it flip in mid-air and scrape a crane didn't nother you at all, huh?Is that what happened? I should pay closer attention, and maybe I'd catch these nuances. :rolleyes:

[R.D. Wright]

I can understand why do they things like that. The target audience might even consider it a "cool" sequence.

But after seeing Transporter 1, which I liked, that just really made me chuckle. (I couldn't swallow anything after that).To be honest, I don't remember much about either one of these movies except what I just described. But I think that says something about this type of movie as well as its target audience. It's like taking crystal meth. The experience is a total rush, but it is devoid of rational thought and real emotion. I take nothing away in my heart, so I need to go back for another shot. Hence, the sequel.

[roscoegino]

I learned to ride a bike when this thread started.

[R.D. Wright]

I learned to ride a bike when this thread started.I'm impressed. I'm still learning.

Oh, here's another one: V FOR VENDETTA. Loved it. But there's something that still bugs me. At the end of the story -- where did V get all those masks? He lives in the bowels of the earth, but he manages to terrorize the city and rig up all those explosives. And then he finds time to make about a million masks? Or did he just order them from China?

I wonder about these things.

Okay, it's still a great ending.

[OzFade]

Considering V uses a Fawkes mask which anyone can buy.

Ebay anyone?

[Adam Isaac]

The Big Sleep

Has anybody seen Sean?
Sean who?
Sean Reegan.

Do you want me to count to three like they do in the movies? That's what Canino said to little Jonesy.

[Pencey]

Would anyone like to rip into Flight Plan or Red Eye?

[Cycstorm]

Flight Plan gets an automatic pass from me because it has Sean Bean in it (shut up). I havn't seen Red Eye yet.

[vmf]

So the fact that the guy removed the bomb strapped to the underside of the car by making it flip in mid-air and scrape a crane didn't nother you at all, huh?

Yeah, like the guy doesn't have enough cash to buy another car, and *must* pull that BS just to keep it shiny. :rolling:

On the plus side, the fire hose sequences was cool and it didn't have any homoerotic "guys fighting in hot oil" scenes like the original. :eek:

[Signal30]

Would anyone like to rip into Flight Plan or Red Eye?Not particularly. But I liked Red Eye for the reasons I hated Flightplan.

Go figure.

Plus it had Jayma Mays in it.