TAXI DRIVER

[DUCPHO]

I had to drive over to my Grandson's apartment last evening and when I arrived I was somewhat taken aback by the fact that he had trimmed his hair in a "mohican" style like DeNiro in Taxi Driver.

So when I got home I pulled it out and watched it for the first time in a good while and was once again blown away by, what I consider, to be Scorsese's finest film and certainly one of DeNiro's best performances.

My question is this, and I never really attached that much significance to the fact that DeNiro's character, Travis, was a Viet Nam veteran until I watched it this last time. The movie certainly chronicles a man's descent into apparent insanity, with the twist being that he emerges a hero!

How much importance did Scorsese "really" attach to the fact that DeNiro's character was a Viet Nam veteran, most probably suffering the effects of PTSD, that contributed to this downward spiral?

Although there is no specific reference to his service, except when applying for the job at the Cab Company, we are constantly reminded of it later... as Travis is almost always attired in an Army Field jacket?

I guess what I'm really saying is if you subtracted the Viet Nam Vet aspect from Travis's background, would his non-veteran counterpart been less believable?

Just curious as to what others think?

[Leech]

I think the importance of Travis Bickle being a veteran has to do with what his character would've seen during combat and the experience so many vets had when they returned home.

The same thing was done for the Post-WWII films, primarily film noir. It took the feelings vets had, again, based on what they've seen and felt, and the tone was set.

THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES, while not a film noir, shows you the dark experience a vet can go through when coming back home.

Basically: War is hell.

This is edited to add that I just remembered that TAXI DRIVER also borrows from THE SEARCHERS, another story about a veteran and how he handles post-war life.

[noh1]

If you look at Deniro's back in the scene where he's doing push ups, you'll notice that he's been shot in the back.

Big symbolism.

I feel that that wound is part of his feeling of betrayal by society, which feeds into his anger and his "need to do something". If he were a non-vet, I don't feel it would be as powerful. Also, when this movie was made, the wounds of Nam were still very new and visceral for almost all segments of society.

Remember, he doesn't just want to kill for killing's sake. He wants to make a difference. A statement. He wants to (in his mind) save it all from going to hell in a handbasket.

I don't think that would've played as well if he were, say... a maytag repairman.

[Pencey]

It makes no difference at all whether he's a vet or not. His actions did not result directly from his experience in Nom.

His past isn't even brought up other than that one moment when applying for a job. This differs from The Deer Hunter or other movies like that where the Vietnam background plays an obvious role in what happens to these characters.

What we see on screen is a disillusioned character who becomes even more jaded when he takes up a job as a taxi driver. He sees the worst part of our society, the drugs, the hookers, etc and coupled with his own problem with living in a vacuum, decided he wants to do something about it. By taking action, he kills two birds with one stone. He wants to "clean things up" and be noticed by society at the same time.

[noh1]

You think his being a Nam vet has nothing to do with the movie???



wow. Um, there was a character named travis bickle before the movie starts, you know.

[A Pathetic Writer]

This certainly wasn't Queen Latifah's best movie, but Jimmy Fallon was meh...

[Salazkin]

:|

When Dave's in the midst of another post flurry, his posts have been known to descend into the utterly nonsensical.

I'll take it one step further: how about Taxi Driving Miss Daisy?

[A Pathetic Writer]

You chauffering me? YOU CHAUFFERING ME?!?!?

>:

[Pencey]

You think his being a Nam vet has nothing to do with the movie???

wow. Um, there was a character named travis bickle before the movie starts, you know.

I understand your point. But take out that one line where he says he's a vet and tell me how that changes his future actions.

[kojled]

so, tell me. why, specifically, does it matter that the deniro char was in nam? to put it another way: are you suggesting the story would not make sense if the nam thing is taken out?

okay, i'll put it another way: couldn't someone who did not serve in vietnam act exactly the same way?


z

[Loaded 4 Bear]

Could you put it another way? :lol

[noh1]

I'm not suggesting anything like that. That would make no sense now, would it?

Sure, a regular guy could act the same way, but it wouldn't be Taxi Driver. It does make a difference in his character if you take out that one line, too.

He's trained to kill. He knows guns. When that dork tries to push him out the door, he's ready to defend his life, just like he did IN THE JUNGLE.

If he hadn't been a soldier, then he would've picked up that jacket in a Goodwill store. He'd be just an angry, psychotic guy.

But he's not just that. Part of his anger stems from his experiences in the jungle, and at his feeling of betrayal by his government. I think it informs many of his actions.

I just think that it's VERY tied up with the film, and the fact that he IS a vet brings the movie to a much deeper level, especially given the time in which it was made.

[wcmartell]

I don't know about Scorsese, but what about the screenwriter who *invented* Bickle? That would be Paul Schrader, by the way, who also wrote ROLLING THUNDER about a Viet Nam POW who finds homelife more treacherous than his military service. Check it out.

- Bill

[A Pathetic Writer]

Sounds a lot like First Blood, too.

[Pencey]

Noh1, you make some good points and on some small scale, you're right about it being a contributing factor to his actions. But since his past is not referenced in the story to show WHY he's acting this way, I see him as a different character than you.

What I see is someone who is disgusted with the ugliness of people, distrusting, lonely, horny, jaded, and feels unimportant to this society he hates.

The only thing that would directly relate to his service in Nom is his distrust of other people.

Now, if he had wanted to be a hero in Nom but wasn't, than maybe I could relate his backstory in Nom more to his actions in the film of wanting to save the hooker and have a second chance at being a hero.

I will agree though that a character's backstory contributes to that person's future actions but in this story it is indirectly, IMO.

[Mike Samonek]

What I see is someone who is disgusted with the ugliness of people, distrusting, lonely, horny, jaded, and feels unimportant to this society he hates.


Now remember that he was just in a jungle fighting and killing to protect (in a sense) the "American way." He's nearly lost his life in service of his country. He had to kill in service of his country. He gets home and this is the society he nearly died for? This cesspool? Of course that contributes to his going around the bend.


That is powerful, powerful part of his character. It explains where his madness comes from. Without it, he isn't half the character he is in the movie.

[noh1]

But, his past is referenced. It's there in that jacket. It's in that line. It's in his ability to mount what amounts to a military campaign to get at the politician.

Well, I just think it's more there than you do. Oh well.

[A Pathetic Writer]

maybe Travis just needed a little hug?

[noh1]

And you're just the girl to give him one, too, I bet.:lol

[Edison Vandall]

Funny. Dave from behind is the spit of a 13yr old Jodie Foster.

[Pen Dragon]

You guys are all aware that the only action Bickle takes is getting Iris a bus ticket back home right? That the bloody , over the top violence we see at the end is only going on in his own head, an insane implosion brought on by his own impotence to actually carry out what he wishes he could have done? The ending makes that clear enough

Bickle is the ultimate impotent vigilante wannabe

[Johnny Stacatto]

But since his past is not referenced in the story to show WHY he's acting this way

but you see this is an intelligent movie that doesn't feel the need to explain WHY everything is the way it is. and to ignore his war experience as a contributing factor to his mental state is to ignore part of the story.

and would you stop spelling it "nom"?? this is not about a fat guy walking into a bar in boston.

[A Pathetic Writer]

That's "Norm" |I

[Johnny Stacatto]

obviously, you've never heard someone from boston say it.

[Pencey]

Nam.

There, you happy? :|

[refriedwhiskey]

It's important that he's a Vietnam vet because it explains WHY Bickle is who he is and does what he does. His personality and desires and actions don't exist in a vacuum stretching from the opening credits to the end credits. Like all good characters, he has a back story that's vital to the movie's story.

The fact that he's a vet makes him a tragic figure, rather than just a psycho nutjob. He carries his Vietnam experience with him everywhere he goes; he can't forget what he did and saw there, and he feels betrayed by an ungrateful nation, and it's made him crazy, and he feels powerless to do anything about it.

Without that background, Taxi Driver would just be a Charles Bronson Death Wish movie.

[phoenixwriting]

I believe that Bickle being a Vietnam vet. is also important in the context of the times.

Being a vet. in '76 meant something very different to being a vet. now. You can't watch this film in isolation from the world it was set in, and expect to see it the same way.

[DUCPHO]

Did I say "Mohican", I met "Mohawk"!:lol

Remember when Travis is actually applying for the cab job?

He tells the manager "I just wann'a work a lot'a hours"!

"I have trouble sleeping"!

Sleep disturbance is a key symptom of PTSD. Scorcesse, as prevously mentioned, was no stranger to topics relating to the Viet Nam war or it's aftermath as clearly demonstrated in "Deer Hunter"!

I would love to find out if Shrader had him wearing that Army Field jacket initially or following Scorsese's or DeNiro's impact on the script?

No, I think that Paul Schrader was influenced greatly by both DeNiro's and Scorcesse's collaboration with him in both pre-production and actual filming. And both Scorcesse and DeNiro, either through personal connection, or perhaps, simply the desire of artists to reflect life as it was unfolding around them... at that point an time, were consumed by the war as were those around them... this fact is certainly chronicled in the historically documented efforts of both Scorcesse and DeNiro, for explaining the circumstances impacting Viet Nam vets at the time and the later's feelings of disenfranchisement from society as a whole, it's like "Taxi Driver" was the embryo that "Deer Hunter" emerged from!:rollin

Man... is that crazy or what?:lol

[vmf]

it's like "Taxi Driver" was the embryo that "Deer Hunter" emerged from!

Too bad it had to age into Jacknife.

[kitnerboy]

I don't think that the fact that he was a veteran is arbitrary or irrelevant, but it's not as big a deal as you think.

Any young man in the early seventies was affected by the war, either as a soldier, or someone who was evading the draft, or (as Paul Schrader was), a protester. You could not avoid the subject.

But Travis Bickle is a loner. His insomnia could stem from pent-up sexual energy just as easily as PTSD.

The film is filled with voiceover, but at no point does Bickle mention the war. You could say that that's because it's a 'smart' film, that dose not need to pander to it's audience with such obvious character motivation.

Then why the need to suggest (via this supposed character backstory) that he's really a sympathetic character, if we're so smart?

You're not wrong if you think that, it's just an opinion.

A couple of notes on the Taxi Driver dvd.

It has a feature where you can read the screenplay and jump back and forth to the corresponding scene in the movie. I wish all dvds had this.

It also has an hour long documentary featuring interviews with Schrader, De Niro and Scorcese. At no point does anyone mention the Vietnam war.

[Edison Vandall]

Bickle was a Vietnam Vet? I never knew that, I just thought he was kinda grouchy.

[noh1]

You're right! I see it now! The whole movie is a just a clever reworking of the Arthurian legend! It's the grail quest, with Jodie Foster's ass as the grail!!


Wow, thanks for opening up my eyes, guys!!

[kojled]

i don't buy it. i don't believe there is a point in the movie where bickle's actions are the direct result of him being a war veteran. in born on the 4th of july the protag's actions are a direct result of his war experience - from imdb:

Paralyzed in the Vietnam war, he becomes an anti-war and pro-human rights political activist after feeling betrayed by the country he fought for.

that'a a pretty one to one relationship. no such thing in taxi driver - deniro's char is maladjusted guy, that's all

in other word, to put it another way, you could remove any/all reference to bickle having fought in vietnam and pic/story/plot remains unaffected/unchanged/same/just as good/believable/powerful/visceral, with just as much impact/lasting effect


z

[Loaded 4 Bear]

in other word, to put it another way, you could remove any/all reference to bickle having fought in vietnam and pic/story/plot remains unaffected/unchanged/same/just as good/believable/powerful/visceral, with just as much impact/lasting effectEXCEPT that without his vietnam backstory (however mildly hinted at), you have no real cause for sympathizing with him. The generalized human condition argument alone won't hold, because all of us are subject to it, and he has no better claim than us.

War is fvcked, and this renders the veteran infinitely sympathetic, IMO. And it is the ONE duty that entitles a man (or woman) to receiving something back from the society he/she defended.

[noh1]

in other word, to put it another way, you could remove any/all reference to bickle having fought in vietnam and pic/story/plot remains unaffected/unchanged/same/just as good/believable/powerful/visceral, with just as much impact/lasting effect


In a word? No. Or to put it another way, nope.

[DUCPHO]

The first information Schrader gives you about Travis is the fact that he's a veteran, you assume Nam because the war was on at the time he would have been in... he references a 1973 discharge while applying for the cabbie job.

The second piece of the portrait Schrader paints of Travis is that he's weird... strange... and very, very angry!

Assuming Travis a Vietnam Veteran would significantly account for this, for many people at the time the film was made and probably today as well!

Otherwise, proceeding with the plot line left, we would start off with an angry and weird Travis but with no idea as to where he "came from" mentally or what might have shaped him!

I guess you could rewrite it with Travis getting out of a Psychiatric Hospital or something like that... but Schrader and, in fact, or all three decided on the veteran idea and thought it needed to be reinforced throughout the film with the Army Field jacket thing!

DeNiro would certainly have been cognizant as to the fact that he was wearing the jacket and certainly for some reason other than it was simply cold:smokin

[kojled]

the empathy thing doesn't fly. this char could be anyone in any time. he is a misanthrope. he is immature, poorly adjusted (taking his date to a porn flick). such people exist everywhere and are this way for any number or reasons.

besides, do we really know he's a vet? it's been a long time - is this pinned down. i mean, could be the char just intimates that he's a vet (for acceptance. maybe he was rejected for psych issues and char wants to cover this up. maybe he's ashamed because he didn't serve and his friends did - and now they're dead). wearing an army surplus jacket and having a bullet wound does not, necessarily, make char vietnam vet.

while this adds psych layers to char, it doesn't make him a vet - it makes him maladjusted and immature. this leads to psychosis. all these elements make me empathize with char - not that he is supposedly a vet (in this plot, i couldn't care less)

being a vet would be indispensible in a pic like born on 4th july - obviously. here, it's window dressing (and possibly a creation of bickle's imagination)

removing all reference to war, and being a veteran of war, from taxi driver would not diminish this movie. that is, remove the bullet wound and have char wear regular jacket, and - same movie, same empathy


z

[kitnerboy]

Exactly- its likely that someone as disfunctional as Bickle would not have served long in the army... or even been placed into combat.

[Architeuthis Dux]

Look. The character was a Vietnam veteran. It was logical for him to be a veteran. Making him a veteran allowed the writer to plug into all sorts of cultural associations and expectations that fit perfectly with the character and were much more of an issue at the time. Moody loner? Solves problems with violence? Willingness to adopt a hairstyle at odds with the long hair then in favor? Some gun expertise? Sure, it all fits together. If not a veteran, than what? Veterinarian? Vegetarian? Violinist?

[Loaded 4 Bear]

while this adds psych layers to char, it doesn't make him a vet - it makes him maladjusted and immature. this leads to psychosis. all these elements make me empathize with charHey, if his being psychotic engenders your empathy more than would his being a vet, then so be it. Though psychosis is tragic and an understandable human aberration, it doesn't inspire my sympathy. Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer - both troubled, psychotic men - were not sympathic characters.

Anyway, it's not a requirement that we empathize with Travis Bickle. It just adds dimension to our movie-going experience if we do - by bringing to the surface the dual nature of man. If you achieved that empathy via his psychosis, then good for you. But I doubt that was the intent or that most viewers would find that the basis for their empathy.

[noh1]

Exactly- its likely that someone as disfunctional as Bickle would not have served long in the army... or even been placed into combat.


You're not really up on your Vietnam War history, are you?


Ah heck, it doesn't matter. Loaded stated it well, just above here.

[kitnerboy]

noh1-


I was just teasing.

But-

I just saw The Assasination Of Richard Nixon.

Same story.

Same character. (okay, maybe not as sociopathic)

Same era.

Same ending.

Except Bicke (not to be confused with Bickle) WASN'T a veteran. And you know what? I never found myself asking "But what was his motivation? ...surely something in his past made him like this? How am I supposed to empathize with him?"

I think it was Chris Rock who said "Whatever happened to just crazy."

[noh1]

hmmm... well, this could go on all day.


Okay.

[kojled]

ad

poor logic. having been shot, short hair, and being of the correct age to have served, and wearing an army jacket doesn't make one a vet. it makes one appear to be a vet. this is still a strong possibility for bickle - he wants you (and maybe himself) to believe he is a vet. whether he is or not is never pinned down

otherwise, this element holds no particular importance for this plot. to wit: remove all of the above character traits and nothing changes

let's see. i'm the correct age to have served in iraq. if i have a bullet wound, have a military hair cut, wear army surplus clothes, and say i'm a vet - am i?


z

[kojled]

loaded 4 bear

hey. psychosis (in bundy and dahmer) does not engender sympathy? are you saying that you only sympathize with psychotics who served (or say they served) in the armed forces?

you don't sympathize with bundy and dahmer? they were horribly tortured people. what about aileen wuornos. charlize theron created a wonderful portrayal of this killer in 'monster'. you don't sympathize because they weren't vets? or is it because they don't say they are vets? or you don't sympathize because they were killers. strange criteria (and a bit hypocritical it seems)

and, i'm not sure what being a vet has to do with illustrating man's duality. everyone has a dual nature, not just soldiers

poor argument


z

[Architeuthis Dux]

I was, at one time in my life, a taxi driver. I was a moody, maladjusted loner. But I never tried to take out the President.

Why not?

Because I lacked the discipline and initiative it would have taken to shave my head, do a bunch of pull ups, and construct a handy gun-concealing device inside the sleeve of my coat. Discipline and initiative I would have learned in the US armed services.

[kojled]

ad

wow. okay. he was in the military. there is no other possibly


z

[noh1]

No, there are other possiblities.


But, that doesn't make them correct.


He served. He was a vet. It's a part of the story. A major part. That's it, right there. To say that he was "playing" or not a vet is just missing the movie. I just typed in "was travis bickle a vet?" in google, and you know what?

EVERY hit I got describes him as being A WAR VET. Disgruntled, loner, whatever... but A WAR VET.

So there.:lol

[kitnerboy]

John Hinckley, Jr. was too young to serve in vietnam. Doubtful that he would have anyway, since he came from a prominent, wealthy family.

He was, however, a socially maladjusted and introverted loner.



Bonus trivia:

Travis Bickle's shoulder patch reads "King Kong Company 1968-70", suggesting that he served two tours.

However, there is no record of any King Kong Company in the Army, so this may be entirely fictional.

[Loaded 4 Bear]

are you saying that you only sympathize with psychotics who served (or say they served) in the armed forces?Wow. You're building up quite the straw man. I never said anything about a psychotic vet. You brought up psychotics as being sympathetic. I stated why a vet, who has REASON to be angry with the world (and a reason that can be understood by the man on the street, not a reason that can be understood only by advanced psychologists - the latter is fine if they make up the movie-going public), is more sympathetic, IMO. At least certainly with me.you don't sympathize with bundy and dahmer? they were horribly tortured people.No. what about aileen wuornos. charlize theron created a wonderful portrayal of this killer in 'monster'.I submit that not all psychotics are created equal. And yes, Wournos was sympathetic, again because the film showed explicitly (in Taxi Driver it was more implicit, and he clearly was less sympathetic) WHY she may have become who she was. Simply possessing the label "psychotic" does not alone engender empathy. Presenting to me the circumstances from which the psychosis springs may very well, on the other hand. Thus, to start a fresh story with "Travis Bickle is psychotic, now watch him lay waste" is cutting to the chase, but is not EARNING the viewer's empathy. That is all. you don't sympathize because they weren't vets? or is it because they don't say they are vets? or you don't sympathize because they were killers. strange criteria (and a bit hypocritical it seems) Again with the straw man. Write back when you can manage to make some sense.
and, i'm not sure what being a vet has to do with illustrating man's duality.Neither do I. So why you're saying it is a mystery to me.


I AM FINISHED WITH THIS SUBJECT. THE LAST WORD IS UP FOR GRABS.

[refriedwhiskey]

This thread is blowing my mind. And not in a good way.

[DUCPHO]

Well stated! By the fell'er that provoked it all!:rollin

[kojled]

kitnerboy

dude. that's some damnhellass research. however, i myself served two tours in king kong company. i don't remember any bickle, though


z