There Is No Such Thing As A Subplot

[roscoegino]

In the book Aristotle for Screenwriters, Michael Tierno contends that every good script contains only one well contructed plot or one complete action and that any so-called "subplot(s)" is really a variation of The Plot expressing the same theme, not another plot.

Thoughts to the contrary?

[Rathmon]

Most books about screenwriting are as useful as 20 grit toilet paper.

Nuances in the subplot are like the shades of your canvas- the illuminate the big picture even when they have nothing to do with the portrait in the middle.

[Signal30]

I suppose (in theory) that makes sense... ultimately, the subplot has to merge with the main, otherwise it's just padding. In theory.

But I'm sure that there have been plenty of subplots that have served just the opposite function. As counterpoint, or irony.

[Biohazard]

A sub-plot is a minor conflict that must be resolved before the major conflict can be resolved.

The crew of the Millennium Falcon escaping from the Death Star is a sub-plot to the major action of destroying the Death Star.

To say that sub-plots simply do not exist is ridiculous.

[zenplato]

http://books.google.com/books?id=KouceSpxXdcC&pg=PA25&lpg=PA25&dq=Aristotle+for+Screenwriters%2Bno+subplots&source=bl&ots=4Qj1wP-rdC&sig=ewfFrV-0oyMKaPM0yKJ9qAVpmn8&hl=en&ei=M9iOSZr5E5j8MszcpKYL&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA25,M1
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Seems like they are just using semantics and splitting hairs. I guess it depends how you define a subplot...

[Jake Schuster]

Every novel worth its salt has at least one, and usually more than one, subplot. A subplot doesn't have to be resolved before the main plot is. One can depend on the other. See Dickens for how it's done.

[KBuck]

There Is No Such Thing As A Subplot


In my latest script the protagonist Fred the farmer divides his land amongst his seven children...

[Jcorona]

My favorite subplot is in Apocalypto. When Jaguar Paw's pregnant wife and kid are trying to avoid drowning as JP tries to get to them.

Corona

[Jake Schuster]

Three off the top of my head with at least one subplot:

"Body Heat"
"The Godfather"
"Casablanca"

No subplot: no texture, no harmony, no dimensionality.

[Sinnycal]

The book gives The Godfather as an "obvious example" of a film without any subplots.

[Population17]

I think that most subplots are demonstrations of the protag's, or those close to him/her's, desire for something - good or bad. That desire creates action, which creates a rich character.

I don't think subplots are a NECESSITY, but I think that the DO make your story better overall.


thanks
brad

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**All drama is conflict. Without conflict, you have no action; without action, you have no character; without character, you have no story; and without story, you have no screenplay**

[Jake Schuster]

The book gives The Godfather as an "obvious example" of a film without any subplots.

Well, if we take the mob wars involving Brando, then we have his daughter's relationship with her new husband, Sonny's rise in the family, and Michael's arc, which is a story unto itself. Sure, we can strip away the subplots, and just concentrate on Don Corleone, but we'd lose the richness of the story.

In fact, a classic tale of a family, such as this is (and there's a long pedigree in literature for this paradigm), subplots are a given.

It's like suggesting "Hamlet", say has no subplot. In which case no Ophelia, no Fortinbras.

[Sinnycal]

He's not saying that those don't exist. He's arguing that they aren't actually subplots the way Aristotle would define them.

[Jake Schuster]

Just to add: to "test" to see if a strand in a work is a subplot, see if you could simply focus on telling that one story, reducing the A plot to a B plot.

"Hamlet" could easily be the subplot to a tale about a king--the father of Fortinbras--killed by a king (the elder Hamlet), and Fortinbras's need to gain revenge. Hamlet would just be a minor character in his subplot--about a king's son's need to get revenge.

Tom Stoppard played with this in "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead". He brought them forward in their story--spies in the palace sent to cause Hamlet's death and then having tables turned on them--and set Hamlet off in the background.

[Jake Schuster]

He's not saying that those don't exist. He's arguing that they aren't actually subplots the way Aristotle would define them.

Well, I think that since Aristotle we've seen, through the great Elizabethan dramatists until now, that subplots can be redefined. If we followed Aristotle's definition of the unities to the letter these days, then we'd have too many films shot in real time, thus losing the dimensionality of other times, other places.

[ShaneBlackFan]

Star Wars has one major subplot: Luke learning the ways of the force.
The rest are obstacles -- Han Solo wants to be rich, another subplot perhaps? -- which the good guys have to overcome. I could be wrong, though.


For example in the godfather, you have Talia's story/fight with her husband and Sonny beating the holy crap out of him. This is a subplot that reflects the overall theme of THE GODFATHER (see classics thread for some great discussion) which is family triumphs over all/blood is thicker than water... Sonny comes to her rescue. It also shows him as a hothead which means he's not the best one to step into the Godfather's shoes.
It IS a subplot -- we're following ancilliary characters around unrelated to the story's main action events-- but it executes the movie's theme.


Although it executes the the movie's theme, I also think it's related to the main plot -- who is the ideal candidate to assume the role of The Godfather? Sonny isn't, obviously. Fredo's weak.

In Back to the Future, Marty must gets his parents together and make sure they kiss otherwise he won't exist. This is an OBSTACLE he must overcome before he can return to 1985, it's not a subplot. That's how I see it.

[The Road Warrior]

Subplot, and another war of the generations is illustrated well in Shakespeare's King Lear; where the subplot mirrors many elements of the power dispute between Lear and his three daughters, but as the play continues, by the end the subplot collides with the ... 'upstairs plot' (my term :) ) rather than running parallel to it.

And the consequences appear to be that it both complicates/ intensifies the drama and reinforces theme. It provides a lot of possiblities for the story.

King Lear is not easy to sum up, but it does have related themes running through both plots, and each contributes to the dramatic circumstances of the other. Without a subplot, a play may sometimes be more lean, I think, but it may also remove some of the interesting possibilties that arise out of having other tales, twists and characters to focus on.

Subplots help reflect real life and complexity, a number of "personalities" who affect one another. As in Godfather, what if Sonny hadn't died, Michael would not ascend to Godfather, so the feeling of fate or chance and of one event leading to another is often created by a character, who has a subplot role.

We know that Michael becomes Godfather,and that everybody who crosses his path falls away so that by the end, he is alone, but it's those events and twists and his getting there that hooks us, many of those events arise out of the multiple subplots.

[Raw_and_Vital]

If you want to know the Ups and Downs of subplot, please purchase a movie called TROJAN WARS. It's practically a step by step blueprint on how to create a successful subplot within the stories entirety.

[ComicBent]

I think it was the American playwright and teacher Jeffrey Hatcher who made the observation that Shakespeare discovered that the subplot was like the Greek chorus: It provided an ongoing commentary.

I discovered that remark a couple of years ago, and I find it very profound.

[roscoegino]

It is profound.

[Jake Schuster]

A subplot also commonly mirrors or comments on the primary plot. So in "Hamlet", we have the front story of a young (well, Hamlet's 35) prince returning home from college to avenge his father's death; and in one of the subplots, we have young Fortinbras, who has come to avenge the death of his father, brought down by Hamlet's father, also named Hamlet.

(And Shakespeare had a son who drowned named...Hamnet. In the first run of this play, Shakespeare himself played the ghost of Hamlet's father.)

[reddery]

Seems like they are just using semantics and splitting hairs. I guess it depends how you define a subplot...
I kinda gotta agree. The phrase that went though my mind is, this is the reason I'll never write a book on screenwriting, cause I might sound like him.