Entering Too Late/Exiting Too Early

[rlb2252]

Talk about entering a scene late and getting out early. This from John Q:

INT. ILLINOIS TRUST - DAY
John and Denise are refused for a loan.

That’s the entire scene.
Does this leave a bit much to the director’s imagination? This script has several such brief scenes.
It made me curious. I checked IMDB to see whether this was penned by the director. Who needs much description if the only eyes reading the script are your own. But nope, the director and writer, two different folks.
Anybody know whether this was a spec? The writer has a TV track record so it didn’t come completely out of left field.
Your thoughts on writing this sparse—-particularly when done by a newbie attempting to break in.

[Population17]

I don't think I get what's happening here :o

[Pipe]

I've done stuff like this, but worded slightly differently. Something like:

John and Denise exit the bank, downcast, as they were just refused a loan.


Assuming they've been introduced already. I mean, a bank is a bank. Everything the actors/director needs to know is there.

But then, I tend to do whatever the f_ck I feel like anyway.

[Kevan]

Talk about entering a scene late and getting out early. This from John Q:

INT. ILLINOIS TRUST - DAY
John and Denise are refused for a loan.


That's just a very simple but an effective scene which a director can do what he wants in order to portray that scene on the screen... The screenwriter has left it open for the director to do just that..

The above is not an example of entering a scene late and exiting a scene early.. That's something entirely different..

[BattleDolphinZero]

If the build up to that scene is basically "everything in these their life leads up to what happens when they enter that bank"

And then you have that line, it could work. Because the entire scene is basically a punctuation to what you set up before it.

But out of context it's not something to aspire to. IMO of course.

Entering late and exiting early means **** is already going at the top of the scene, right?

And leaving early means you set up the scene with two possible outcomes, and cut out of it knowing that the audience will be able to fill in what happened by what is going on in the next scene.

The most extreme example would be...

INT. ROOM
Johnny stands over Jim aiming a gun at Jim's head. Tracy stands next to Johnny already bored with the situation.

TRACY: "I don't wanna argue anymore, Johnny. If you wanna shoot him, shoot him, but remember this... you'll have to answer to Frank if you do it.

(and then the next scene is)

INT. FRANK'S OFFICE
Johnny stands before Frank.

FRANK: "I can't believe you did that."

[jonpiper]

INT. ILLINOIS TRUST - DAY
John and Denise are refused for a loan.


To me that's what you would put in an outline to tell yourself what the scene is about. The screenplay should tell a story about what happens in the scene.

Otherwise, it could be one shot in a Montage. No need for a Master Scene Heading.

[TheKeenGuy]

That's just a very simple but an effective scene which a director can do what he wants in order to portray that scene on the screen... The screenwriter has left it open for the director to do just that..

The above is not an example of entering a scene late and exiting a scene early.. That's something entirely different..
It's neither simple nor effective. It's telling the director "I dunno, YOU figure it out."

I mean, if someone can't think of a concise visual way to effectively communicate that the characters are being rejected for a loan, then maybe screenwriting's not for them.

[Kevan]

To me that's what you would put in an outline to tell yourself what the scene is about. The screenplay should tell a story about what happens in the scene.

Otherwise, it could be one shot in a Montage. No need for a Master Scene Heading.

Just writing economically, jon.. Some screenwriters write like this, it is a form of short hand, a bit like Hauku..

Other writers would describe the scene in more detail.. With not filling in the detail the director can do what he likes.. Keep it short and sweet or expand on the idea... Some writers who write in more detail would probably describe it shot for shot, dialogue line for dialogue line but it depends how important the scene is in relation to what went before and what comes after.. It's all about context I guess...

Simply another way of doing it..

[jonpiper]

Just writing economically, jon.. Some screenwriters write like this, it is a form of short hand, a bit like Hauku..

but it depends how important the scene is in relation to what went before and what comes after.. It's all about context I guess...

Simply another way of doing it..

You're right Kevan, context would have everything to do with writing a scene like that.

I can imagine a sequence where the scene before that scene shows how desparately John and Denise need a loan, and that scene is the payoff. That is enough if all that scene needs to show us is John and Denise don't get the loan.

But if the story requires that we know their reactions or some other information, I think the screenwriter is leaving too much to the reader and director.

Just my opinion. I prefer to see things fleshed out when necessary.

[NikeeGoddess]

I can imagine a sequence where the scene before that scene shows how desparately John and Denise need a loan, and that scene is the payoff. That is enough if all that scene needs to show us is John and Denise don't get the loan.this is my assumption as well. this scene is taken out of context... which you could do with almost any scene to make some kind of argument.

[Pipe]

You know what that is, it's a draft note. As in the writer, or the director, is saying we need a scene here like this, so just throw some text in there for now and we'll fill it in later. It's a place-holder. Don't read anything into it more than that.

[rlb2252]

You know what that is, it's a draft note. As in the writer, or the director, is saying we need a scene here like this, so just throw some text in there for now and we'll fill it in later. It's a place-holder. Don't read anything into it more than that.

Good answer, Pipe. I wondered that myself. That’s why I checked whether this was written by the director or by someone else who would flesh it out later.
It’s certainly easy to over write a scene like this. But the converse is also true. A scene could be underwritten.
Having said that, there is plenty of setup for a scene like this within this particular script. John Q. and his wife have already had a garage sale to raise money for their son’s operation. Had their vehicle repo’ed. Tried and failed to get government assistant and a second job.
If Pipe is not accurate about this being more of a note to the writer, a reminder, then it certainly doesn’t give the reader much to sink his teeth into.
Personally, I would add a few more tidbits to a scene like this. Maybe a banker stamping a large red rejection on their loan application.