Just good enough to know I'm no good [Archive]

mikeb

05-05-2009, 01:40 PM

I'm at the stage where I can objectively look at my own work and know when it's sh*t, but I'm not capable enough to pull off a full-length screenplay that has any chance of selling.

Screenplay numero dos and screenplay numero tres have both turned out with great moments and good scenes in an overall story that needs work, leaving me with the awful task of substantial rewrites, which is probably the thing I like least about the process.

Can't wait to get over the hump. If I don't start improving (and I have improved, just not fast enough for my liking) I'm afraid I'll burn out before I have any chance of realizing the talent I (hope) know is there.

Anyone else get stuck in this stage for awhile? I'm not talking about the rookie, first-screenplay "feel your way around" stage... I'm talking two or three years later, when you KNOW a ton about the craft, but can't seem to execute it to your liking?

I realize that anything that's worth anything in life is hard work, but man is it depressing to go from that great story in your mind to that contrived pile of garbage on the page.

roscoegino

05-05-2009, 01:46 PM

I've been at that stage. Reading screenplays galore helps alot.

JakeJackson

05-05-2009, 01:50 PM

They say it takes about 10 screenplays to really crack it.

Don't focus on having to write the "great" screenplay right now, just focus on writing and taking what you learn with each into the next one. I was stuck at that stage for a long time, until I learned to embrace and love the process of rewriting. Fade Out is really only the beginning of a long process.

If you persevere and make it to the point where it all 'clicks', then you know you have the stamina necessary to be a writer. If you burn out before then, then you have your answer on that too.

TheKeenGuy

05-05-2009, 02:04 PM

http://www.wordplayer.com/columns/wp50.Targeting.html

Telly

05-05-2009, 02:06 PM

mikeb

05-05-2009, 02:45 PM

For what it's worth, it took me 4 scripts to nail it on my 5th. But, my 6th was a piece of crap, so I stopped in the third-act and started number 7, which is exciting, but no number 5 :( You just never know man, I captured lighting once and I'm busting my hump to catch it again.

I'm not as bad as I sound in my initial post, but there's a big difference between executing a flawless Act 1, and carrying that momentum through three acts.

I'm not giving up on #2 or #3 yet... I'm using the summer to rewrite both, but I was hoping to start the query process on them at the end of May. Probably why I'm so disappointed, you know?

To roscoe: Reading screenplays helps, but it's almost more of a shot to my ego than anything else. SNATCHED and PRISONERS are two scripts that are way out of my writing league, and neither have sold yet. (They've jumpstarted careers, I know, you don't have to tell me! ;) ) My point being... These guys are the competition, and the competition is damn good.

The one thing I won't do is give up. For the past two years my entire focus has been screenwriting. Once it got inside my brain I knew I'd have to see it out, whatever it took.

Thanks for the column link, btw. I'd read it awhile back but it was a nice refresher. Even the "untouchables" start off at the bottom.

Telly

05-05-2009, 02:53 PM

The one thing I won't do is give up.

And this is what separates an eventual sale from obscurity. Stick it out.

wcmartell

05-05-2009, 03:04 PM

snwrist

05-05-2009, 03:10 PM

If this is only your fourth script, as others have said, it's going to take more to "get it". Just keep cracking.

And as roscoe said, it really does help to read tons of scripts. I didn't start REALLY reading alot of scripts until maybe script No. 9...since then, my work has progressively improved with each project. It just takes time...lots of time and lots of practice.

Charli

05-05-2009, 03:32 PM

I just finished reading this book, "Writing, The TV Drama Series" by Pamela Douglas and she did a thing where she brought her students back a few years after they took her class. The ones who truly made it in the industry - they stuck it out, they didn't give up, they didn't give in. They all had the same knowledge, about the same skill set, so, once you have the 'mindset' that this is what you really, really want to do, nothing will stop you, not even you.

TheKeenGuy

05-05-2009, 05:56 PM

So, a guy with a violin case gets into a cab in New York City and asks the cabby, "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?" and the cabby replies, "practice, practice, practice."

That's the answer.

The rewrites are part of it. Writing a big stack of specs is part of it. Continuing to work at the top of you game... and reach higher with every new script... is part of it.

If you love it, you keep doing it - even when it seems foolish to continue.

- Bill
Your setup doesn't make sense. I can understand the guy asking a random stranger on the street how to get to Carnegie Hall, but he just got in a cab. He doesn't have to ask, he'd just tell the cabbie to take him there. At the very least, he wouldn't phrase the question that way.

But, don't worry. You can fix it in the rewrites.

wenonah

05-05-2009, 06:23 PM

I finished #9 this spring and have been screenwriting 7 years - I think I'm finally getting it. I'm REALLY glad I didn't give up after #3. :D You either pay your dues or get REALLY lucky ... apparently I'm paying my dues.

w

Ralphy W

05-05-2009, 06:25 PM

I took one of Pamela Douglas's TV writing classes. The two things I remember most about it were her crazy wild hair and her seemingly endless supply of enthusiasm. (My project that semester was a treatment for, and the first act of, an X-Files spec, which she really dug. Never completed it, though.)

Re: the topic at hand:

Right now I know enough to know EXACTLY where my weaknesses are, as well as the various ways I try to hide them. For instance, I often rely a little too much on "voice" to pull me through when my plotting is a bit weak.

Hi.

peasblossom

05-05-2009, 08:45 PM

I'm stuck in my present script in act 3, having to do major research before forging forward. I know the research will bring the script to the next level - but its so time consuming I don't look forward to it.

The thing I find the most disconcerting about writing is the inactivity of it, so that is what I am trying to balance, before my spare tire grows any bigger!

Also, where does time go when you're in the zone? When I'm writing, I can write for 4-6 hours, and then the day is over, and all I've done is eat, shower, and write.

Anyone notice that there are common threads and/or themes in your writing, that follow you from script to script?

snwrist

05-05-2009, 09:11 PM

I def. have themes that follow me from script to script(involving guilt, sins of the past, isolation, frustration, etc.). I tend to look at this as a good thing: it means you have a voice, something to say. Recurring themes are all part of this voice(look at Spielberg, for example. Or Martin Scorsese. I know, I know...they're directors, but it's true. Common themes thread through their various films).

AnconRanger

05-05-2009, 09:42 PM

i don't know anything, but when you have so much stuff printed out and stacked in the floor around your desk like you've almost built a fort, pick the one story YOU really like the most (it may be the story you think movie folks would like the least), clear the rest away and restack the piles of your workings into end tables or whatever something useful, and aim your focus on that one story. and then focus on the scenes of that story. each scene. that story doesn't have a lamp or empty beer cans or coffee cup stains on top of it for nothing, like your other stuff. clear away thoughts of managers, agents, money, a writing career, etc, and focus on the one story that YOU like. court that one. the above may not be good advice. i haven't sold a script. good luck.

Midnite

05-06-2009, 02:22 AM

clear away thoughts of managers, agents, money, a writing career, etc, and focus on the one story that YOU like. court that one. the above may not be good advice. i haven't sold a script. good luck.

I wish I could remember who said it, but during a panel discussion, a writer asked, "What does Hollywood want? What kind of story should I write?"

The panelist, after fighting the urge to whup the writer up the side of the head, answered, "Write a story that will change your life. That way, whatever else happens, at least your life will have changed."..Or something like that:-)

Midnite

DavidK

05-06-2009, 03:34 AM

I'm at the stage where I can objectively look at my own work and know when it's sh*t, but I'm not capable enough to pull off a full-length screenplay that has any chance of selling.

Getting good enough to know that your work isn't up to the mark is a great step forward. It's often the sign of a writer who will become good enough if they keep practicing. Think of this stage as a positive milestone in your career. It may seem disheartening at the time, but it's progress, I promise.

Anagram

05-06-2009, 04:41 AM

Your setup doesn't make sense. I can understand the guy asking a random stranger on the street how to get to Carnegie Hall, but he just got in a cab. He doesn't have to ask, he'd just tell the cabbie to take him there. At the very least, he wouldn't phrase the question that way.

But, don't worry. You can fix it in the rewrites.

:fryingpan:

spacefarer

05-06-2009, 05:00 AM

Getting good enough to know that your work isn't up to the mark is a great step forward. It's often the sign of a writer who will become good enough if they keep practicing. Think of this stage as a positive milestone in your career. It may seem disheartening at the time, but it's progress, I promise.

Ditto.

ShaneBlackFan

05-06-2009, 06:36 AM

This self-loathing never stops. You will always feel inadequate, that's the nature of the beast. Listen to pro-writer interviews, they are fighting against negativity everyday - control the beast by working hard.

mikeb

05-06-2009, 07:37 AM

I'm just going to keep plugging away.

I figure I'm only 22, started when I'm 20... I got a few years before I need to feel like a failure.

JKB

05-06-2009, 11:55 AM

Yikes! I won't tell you how old I am. Just have some patience, it's not like you're staring down an angry wife and three starving children or anything.

Not to downplay your feelings -- insecurity is always there, and it sucks -- but don't go from the blues to downright discouragement. How many people were at the top of their game at 22? (ok, Sidney Crosby and LeBron James, but I'm talking writers)

And remember ...

Doubt is the path to wisdom

and

The worst thing you've ever written is better than the best thing you never wrote.

Keep writing! Everyone's right on this -- stickwithitness - not talent, not connections - is the paramount quality you need for success.

Sounds like you have that.

And maybe get a hobby. Take up cooking or something. I'm a big proponent of fulfilling hobbies as a means to refuel the creative tank.

gravitas

05-06-2009, 04:29 PM

You're doing exactly what I did at 22. Over-thinking. Put all of your energy into the writing and eventually everything will open up for you. And ditto on re-fueling the creative tank. You have to get out there and observe life because it is all food for your work.

Knaight

05-06-2009, 07:03 PM

I'm right with you, Mike. 24, 5 scripts in, feel like I should be able to do this but know that nothing I've written so far is good enough. But what are you going to do? Keep plugging away and work for the best instead of sitting around and hoping for it.

BattleDolphinZero

05-06-2009, 07:42 PM

Sometimes me and Mongo look reread our screenplays and we're astounded by the uncut awesome that explodes off of every page.

It's pretty crazy how good we are.

Ulysses

05-06-2009, 08:17 PM

You can't start out with an idea of the perfect script, and then write the perfect script.

This idea is the big creativity destroyer.

Just work on it, and throw away what you don't like and bring it closer to what you like. The moment you stop feeling frustration because this early draft isn't where you want it, that moment will be the beginning of something wonderful.

Miko34

05-07-2009, 03:13 AM

I heard it takes 7 scripts, but I guess there is no real magic number.
The tough part is in the beginning and thinking your work is great ...
especially when you have friends read it and agree with you.

It's even harder when you look back at your work after a couple years and realize that your old stuff wasn't really any good and you wonder if you should continue.
I think this feeling will never go away ... even if you have several films made. You just try to improve upon yourself.

I first realized I wasn't good in the beginning when people ask me what my screenplay was about and I couldn't answer them in a sentence or two.
That should be a real sign.

I'm actually on script #7 (not counting short screenplays I did in college) and I wrote the first 75 pages of this one in under a week, so I'm finally getting the hang of it.
I even write outlines now. ;)
Of course, the final act and rewrites are taking longer, which is fine.
I also have #'s 8 and 9 in my head, so I should be on my way to an agent soon.

You are either the John Singleton/Diablo Cody type who are showered with affection after one screenplay...
or you're a normal screenwriter who drinks coffee, surfs the web, and plays Spider Solitaire
until the moment you finally realize... "hey, I'm actually pretty good at this".

There's also a third type...
ones who are very good at networking with people with money,
don't care about their own material,
and are happy with writing movies about giant prehistoric fur beasts attacking teen campers,
but they usually aren't ones on screenwriting blogs (but at least it's paid work, right?).

If you continue to read and write screenplays, eventually you'll get the "ah-ha" moment and know when you write something bad as soon as you type it.

Development Hell

05-07-2009, 06:52 AM

It's even harder when you look back at your work after a couple years and realize that your old stuff wasn't really any good and you wonder if you should continue.
I think this feeling will never go away ... even if you have several films made. You just try to improve upon yourself.

Yes, I believe you should always try to be improving yourself as a writer. I want to be the best screenwriter EVER. Now, that's a lofty goal or target but so what. If I fall short I hope I don't fall so short that I never get paid.

We should all want to get better but a GREAT mini-goal for us all is to get PAID while improving our craft which is all I can hope for.

There is no set number of scripts. Just write. Get better. We all start on this road unpaid so if that doesn't change, so what?

Lately I've been scanning my DVD collection looking to feel a certain experience. But it doesn't exist. It only exists in my scripts so if I want to have that journey and feel a particular way I will just have to read my own stuff. But one day, I hope I can pop in a DVD to watch that experience rather than read it.

reddery

05-07-2009, 06:09 PM

Mike,(or anyone)

What is it about rewrites that you don't like?

Knaight

05-07-2009, 07:19 PM

I think what makes rewrites painful for me is that after I've written, "FADE OUT", I just wish I could be done with it and move on to the next great spec.

I've got plenty of ideas swimming around in my head that I'd love to try out, but I know that if I don't put the effort into reworking my older material, I'll never get anywhere.

So when I'm rewriting, I'm never quite doing what I'd really like to be doing. It's still fun in parts, but I don't get that cool feeling of discovery as often.

That said, I'd rather be rewriting than not writing at all.

snwrist

05-07-2009, 07:33 PM

I echo your sentiments exactly, Knaight.

Ulysses

05-07-2009, 11:50 PM

I heard it takes 7 scripts

It's called the Seven Script Itch.

ShaneBlackFan

05-08-2009, 01:52 AM

I love rewrites - it's another chance to get it right. :)

-XL-

05-08-2009, 02:43 AM

I love rewrites - it's another chance to get it right. :)

Same here. Rewrites are where you get to make good great. There's nothing better.

NikeeGoddess

05-08-2009, 06:38 AM

what's so good about rewrites... especially if you pick a dusty script off the shelf and tackle it again with renewed energy... is that you realize that each time you move on you improve your writing. so many times i pick up an old script and laugh to myself, "i wrote that crap?!!" and then i'm glad that i can recognize improvement in my writing.

mikeb

05-08-2009, 08:04 AM

Same here. Rewrites are where you get to make good great. There's nothing better.

To me it depends on the extent of the rewrite.

The last two rewrites I've had to take on have been pretty big.

If you're talking about making "good" great, that's fine. I need to make "average" into "good" and then try again to get "great."

Sometimes can be draining.