Blanks/Bullets

[Violator]

This one's for you gun owners...

Blanks -- do they look the same as regular bullets? I'm think of a standard wheelgun -- .38 or .45 I guess (correct my lingo if I'm wrong...)

Thanks

[pconsidine]

No they don't. Blanks have the projectile removed, which is the round shape at the tip of the bullet. Blanks often have the end of the shell casing crimped in to hold the powder.

[Violator]

Hmm... that's what I thought...

Looks like I'll have to take a little trip down to the Gun Barn.

[nshumate]

You could always use the ever-popular ich luga bullets...

[Violator]

ich luga?

what are those, Nathan?
checked on yahoo but it didn't pull up anything (pertaining to bullets anyway)

[rumely28]

Some of the blanks they use for firing squads (for 21 gun salutes) use regular casings with wax in the end. If you want a live round that looks like a blank, use bird shot. It has a crimped end and looks like a blank but it has lead pellets in it.

R28

[AnconRanger]

For a wheelgun/revolver, you would have a casing with a primer. That's it. Could look like a regular round of ammunition if you like but it would probably look more like something you'd put in a kid's cap gun. Something to fill the cylinder and make a pop when the firing pin hits the primer. The casing could look like anything you want it to...as long as it has a primer for the firing pin to strike and no powder and no hunk of lead to shoot out the end of the barrel.

For pistols, you'd need enough powder in the casing (and something to stop up the end of the barrel) to make the gun operate (kick back), eject the empty and load the new round from the magazine. But no bullet.

I think. And a .45 isn't a typical wheelgun. It's usually a pistol caliber.

[Bill Marquardt]

I do not advise an inexperiened person to experimant too much, but if you want a flashy but "safe" explosion when the gun goes off, a case with a primer, a couple grains of black powder and a wad of magician's flash paper supposedly makes a great blank. The black powder provides smoke, and the paper provides muzzle flash.

I haven't tried this yet, but the advice came from a cowboy re-enactor. Keep in mind that even blanks are dangerous, as more than one deceased actor has found out. Never point a gun at another person even if it is loaded with blanks. Some wads can be lethal at distances up to ten feet, I am told.

Blank cartridges are often identified by coloring the base of the case a bright color.

The last time I went in for M-16 training, the instructor told us of an incident where a student somehow managed to load a live round into his weapon in the classroom and fired it through the wall narrowly missing the instructor. How he could have mistake a live round for the dummy rounds we practice with is beyond my ken. But it happened. You can never be too safe around guns.

[nshumate]

Seen Heathers? "Ich Luga" bullets (I probably have the spelling wrong) are the semi-tranquilizer bullets that Christian Slater convinced Winona Ryder he was loading in her gun. (Apparently, "Ich luga" means "I'm lying" in German.)

Anyway, my apologies. It was a stupid attempt at a pop-cultural in-joke.

[whistlelock]

I've always lived by the rule.
'Never point a gun at someone, unless you intend to kill them at the moment.'

So far it's worked out pretty good.

[Violator]

Nathan,

I actually haven't seen Heathers. Guess that explains why they weren't on Yahoo...

;)

For the purposes of my script, one character is led to believe he's going to kill someone by shooting them -- when in actuality the gun only has blanks in it. At one point, one of the blanks fall out and the character unwittingly reloads that chamber with a live round.

This is some good info you've all given me but I think this is one of those times I'd better do some first-hand research (by going to a gun shop) to ensure authenticity. Thanks!

[Bill Marquardt]

Violator - my advice above was for someone doing a film with firearms involved. As far as your screenplay goes, anything can happen.

If someone is setting up another person as you describe, it would be an easy matter to rig a round that won't fire, and it could look just like a regular cartridge. Simply leave out the gun powder but put a regular bullet in the casing. If you are worried about credibilty in the eyes of those who use theatrical blanks, you could include a line or two of dialogue somewhere explaining that the cartridges were specially prepared to look exactly like live rounds, or simply show the guy putting the blanks together on a reloading machine.

A sneaky person mught do something like rig four cartridges as blanks, and put them into the corners of the carton with the live ammo. (Ammo usually is sold in small boxes of 50.) This way he would know which rounds were blank without needing to mark them.

Visit your local gun shop and talk to someone.

[robertpr007]

At the range I frequent, the Range Master has a little demo for his students/trainees/requalifiers. He has a dozen 9 mm. cartridges on the table, some with typically rounded bullets, some flat ended, a few that look like Hi-Shok's. The idea is to pick out the blanks. Can't do it. They're made to look real.

The idea is to enforce the idea that they are all dangerous, blanks or not. When the student gives up. the RM fumbles through them, picks one up, examines it in the light, puts in back down. He finally selects one, looks closely at it, and then slides it into the magazine. As he chambers the load, he says, "I'm pretty sure this is one of the blanks. Stand over there and let's see."

The lesson is learned.

My point: they can be made to look innocent or lethal.

[Bill Marquardt]

In the sport of Cowboy Action Shooting, no one would create a blank that looks like a live round. When wearing "dummy" bullets in their gun belt loops, as they might do when dressing up for shows or re-enactments, they at least leave out the primer, which leaves a hole on the bottom of the casing, indicating it is a "blank".

http://www.sassnet.com/media/Test-Photo.gif

Photo from www.sassnet.com (http://www.sassnet.com)

Blanks are marked for two reasons; one is that if you are shooting in a match, you don't want to load blanks by mistake; the other is that if the round is not marked as a blank then you know it is live.

Making blanks that look exactly like live rounds is downright dangerous, and I cannot imagine any legitimate purpose for that. I suspect the instructor mentioned above was just making the point to treat all rounds as live rounds. No blank, which is intended to explode but not discharge a projectile, would have a bullet in the casing.

The M-16 dummies I mentioned earlier had crimped casings which were more square than round. The bullet tips were of a different color. Impossible to confuse with live ammo. Or at least everyone thought so until the incident! That's why you don't point guns at people, even if they are loaded with "non-firing" ammunition.

Here is a photo of a blank with a crimped case (as opposed to a wad.):

http://www.ch4d.com/ch4d/images/BlankCr.gif

[robertpr007]

"I suspect the instructor mentioned above was just making the point to treat all rounds as live rounds."

Yes, that was the lesson, and I probably didn't explain it very well.

There was an local incident where someone injured another quite badly, up close, with a 'blank' so his demo was the message about safety.

[rumely28]

This really isn't a big problem. If he's outside he can drop the blanks without seeing it and it can fall in tall grass or down a gutter. If he's inside it can roll under a filing cabinet or down a heating duct. It's that simple. Once the director is on board, then you can worry about specifics.

R28

[Violator]

Ah, pictures! Now I can relate.

Bill, good info you posted. I can see the pointlessness of making blanks that look like live rounds...but apparently it can be done so that's all I need for plausibility I think. And as rumely points out, it may not be much of an issue anyway since the character in question won't really have a good look at them.

Thanks again guys!