Where the hell do you start?

[jboffer]

So it seems you guys send out hundreds of query letters for single scripts.

I haven't bothered yet. I've entered a few contests for the slim chance that may pan out.

But where do you get this massive amount of emails? You have to look everything up individually (I know it only makes sense to send to people who may be interested in your genre) or is there a database somewhere? (IMDB pro?) Just don't know where to start. Thought there'd be a sticky on this somewhere, but couldn't find one.

Thanks for the help :)

[Telly]

Start here:

Search > Query Letter

You'll find countless threads that will answer your question. Probably the hottest, most discussed topic around here in fact. Good luck!

[streaker12345]

You can use Hollywood Creative Directory, Imdb that all cost money or go to one of my favorite sites,(free of course) which has over 1500 email addresses from the biggest to smallest companies, agents and managers.



http://everyonewhosanyone.com/other.html (http://everyonewhosanyone.com/other.html)

[ScreenQuery]

You can use Hollywood Creative Directory, Imdb that all cost money or go to one of my favorite sites,(free of course) which has over 1500 email addresses from the biggest to smallest companies, agents and managers.



http://everyonewhosanyone.com/other.html (http://everyonewhosanyone.com/other.html)




I definitely do not recommend Everyonewhosanyone.com anymore.

Dump out the monthly fee at IMDBpro. It is well worth it.

[Takezo]

Query agents and managers instead of production companies.
You'll have much more success this way.

Case in point (and don't know if I told this story yet).... was going to a meeting with Mark Varidain at Disney studios a few years back. I walked out of the parking structure and was confronted by a line of 4 or five dipstly dumpsters filled to the brim with scripts. There was a guy there salvaging the brads and tossing the scripts. I asked him what was going on. He told me that these were "unsolicited" material, and that they just recycle the paper.

Now if they/them at Disney toss all the unsolicited material, and there were multiple dumpsters of this stuff... how many query letters did they also recieve and ignore?!

I know there a whole lot of words generated on this site about queries to production companies--but I personally think this is like standing in line at the American Idol auditions. The production companies do not take unsolicited material--and most toss the query letters (the ones you want to connect to that is). Yes some may look at the material (the cheese bags possibly). But this is my opinion.

You stand a much, much better chance of landing representation, than generating interest or a sale with a production company.

Sorry, this is the way the system works.

T

[jboffer]

So question...

If you send query letters to agents, do they pass on their material to readers?

[Takezo]

It will depend upon who/which agent you send it to.

If you send it to THRUSH (a mega agency), they/them will absolutely send it to a reader or at the very least thier baby-agent/assistant, and they will tell thier agent what to initially think. And remember if you do this, you are one screenplay in vast stacks of material.

If you target a smaller shop--and a particular agent, and send them something that seems personalized (like a real live letter), then they will most likely respond, and personally read the material themselves.

The smaller shops do not have the fat and waste that the bigger Wal-Mart Agencies have. They also generally are "hungry" ...that is looking for good material--because most of it winds up with the bigger sharks.

If an agent/manager thinks your premise is hot (gauging off your query/log-line/short-synop), yeah they will contact you. And if they do this, most likely they will give it a 10/20... if you pass this hurdle of interest, and they consume the rest--and also really like it. You will probably get a call to come in and yack.

And forget those stupid contests, etc.
You may have something completely wonderful, and it may win... but it also will probably be the kiss of death.
The only contests you want to win are the representation and sales contests.
These are the only gold medals.
Managers/agents/producers do not want material that has been dragged all over town.
They want to feel special--want to have something special.

I don't think there is an agent/producer/director that gives a flying 'F' if you won a screenplay contest.
They just want 120 pages of magic at their fingertips.

What I would do if I were you... I'd start to try and cultivate some relationships with industry people. All of them know an agent or manager. And somewhere, somehow--you can parlay a relationship into an introduction. This is the way it worked way back in the day for me with "Writer's And Artists" (what's their new name now?).

T

[NikeeGoddess]

Hollywood Creative Directory, Imdb that all cost money
other sources:inktip newsletter and preferred newsletter, scriptpimp, creative screenwriting producers directory

[mlongton]

You'll get the most read requests from managers, no doubt. I have to take issue with Takezo, though. I've found production companies to be MUCH more approachable than agencies. You don't query studios, obviously, or the biggest prodcos, but indies and other studio-affiliated prodcos are often quite approachable. I would stay away from those places that mass mail your loglines - almost nobody rfeads them.

[jboffer]

Good advice thus far. Though I still think contests can be worth it. I'm not just in the business of moving this one script, I'm looking for connections in general. And being in the midwest makes that more difficult.

[ScreenQuery]

I would stay away from those places that mass mail your loglines - almost nobody rfeads them.


One of our first customers landed a rep at Paradigm recently.

[Takezo]

I have to take issue with Takezo, though. I've found production companies to be MUCH more approachable than agencies. You don't query studios, obviously, or the biggest prodcos, but indies and other studio-affiliated prodcos are often quite approachable.

I do agree a bit with you on this point.
It all depend upon what you are pedaling.
If you are tyring to sell a big, big movie--no these smaller companies will probably love the writing (they'll pass), and maybe ask to see something else.

The indie production companies are as dead as GM and Crysler now.
Few of these movies (which no one goes to see) are being funded.
All the "play-money" from the rich Russian Oligarchs and Arabs has dried up. It's gone. And few people need a tax write-off, so these indie pics that have little commercial potential aren't being made now.

To write an indie level screenplay would be a waste of time.
Tyring to sell one now is to have better chances of success trying to win the California lottery.

The big agencies have their ways of going out with project.
They start at the top of the food chain, then work their way down.
There are A, B, C, D and even F level production companies.
Yes the lower levels are mostly not even on the Rolodex of agents and managers.
This is for a reason--and that is because they can't get a movie made.
The studios will barely take a meeting with them.
Most of them don't have deals (to finance and distribute) with studios.
So these guys are a waste of time to query.
Talk about long-shots!?

If you want to take the indie route--and live like Van Gogh (and cut your ear off) and starve... go ahead.

I'm looking for connections in general. And being in the midwest makes that more difficult.

Well it's not going to happen over the internet.
You will have to be out here to make some connections.
Or write something sooooo completely outstanding, so incredible that it stands out from the rest.

T

[Takezo]

One of our first customers landed a rep at Paradigm recently.

Okay screenquery.... how many people use your service? 500? 1000? 5000? Whats the real number?!

How many queries to you send out a year? 20,000? 15,000? 30,000?

How many of your "paying clients" have landed representation?

So let's do some numbers, some ratios okay?!
What are your success rates? 1 in a thousand? 1 in five thousand?
Or are your odds even thinnner?

We'd all like to know the truth.

T

[ScreenQuery]

The service has been online since April 1st. I don't think we've even hit the 1,000 mark yet -- but then again, not really advertising.

I would say that at least 1 out of 5 get positive results. This can be anywhere from a first time read or a series of reads. About 1 in 10 get something bigger. Requests from a big agency, production company, or whatever. Then, it's all up to them.

Most of the customers say it should cost more for their results. We're actually thinking of knocking it down to an even $5 soon.

[Takezo]

Have someone who actually landed a rep PM me on this site.
Then I'll make a judgement on your service.

But for everyone else--you should be very careful about any kind of agent/s, manager/s or any kind of service that charges you an up front fee to get any kind of "in" with the entertainment industry.

To me it smacks of scam.

It just doesn't happen this way.
And when producers and agents get anything from these types of services, it's as though it's coming from gadfly wanna' be's who hang out in the thousands in this town.
Personally speaking, any producer/agent/manager worth having look upon these services with a jaded eye.

These services are a dime a dozen in Hollywood.
And they prey upon those who are completely desperate or just ignorant.
You cannot purchase your way into this game.

When you are in the right place at the right time--with the right product, then the doors open up for you.

Most screenplays (nearly all actually) written by amateurs completely stink.
Read that last line again--and contemplate it upon the "Tree Of Woe."
And the professionals know this fact.
This is why the system has been set up sooo f-ing difficult to penetrate.

How much bad material must a person be forced to plough through?!

The whole game is rigged (yes rigged and structured) to allow only the best (5% at most) to get read by credible people.
And of that percentage, only a smaller percentage go on to get bought, and a smaller percentage get produced.

By subscribing to a service it tells someone that you're sending material to that you cannot hack it. That you cannot make the grade to get an agent--or that you're too freakin' dumb to do so.

A: They really got to like your work.
B: They really got to like you as a person.
C: They really have to be able to trust you to perform (development, re-writes, etc.)
D: Your material has to be consistantly excellent.
E: Your material has to be consistantly excellent.

An electronic query does not give you this.
You must break-in to this industry--if you can't, you can't.

The truth is sometimes a hard thing to swallow.
But someone has to whack people in the head with a telephone book.

T

[Farnsworth]

Takezo tells the raw truth. No illusions. No denial.

Screen showed his true colors by bad-mouthing me on another thread. Beating his chest, bragging about how great his service is. Muck your service, Screen. I hope you go bankrupt. Stop shilling your lousy service on these boards.

Takezo is right. You can't buy your way into this biz. You have to concentrate on writing . . . period. If you get to the point where you can write a great story, and do it again and again, then you should network the way Takezo suggests.

And get out f Iowa and move to L.A. area when you're ready for networking.

[ruby-throated phil]

Have someone who actually landed a rep PM me on this site.
Then I'll make a judgement on your service.

But for everyone else--you should be very careful about any kind of agent/s, manager/s or any kind of service that charges you an up front fee to get any kind of "in" with the entertainment industry.

To me it smacks of scam.

It just doesn't happen this way.
And when producers and agents get anything from these types of services, it's as though it's coming from gadfly wanna' be's who hang out in the thousands in this town.
Personally speaking, any producer/agent/manager worth having look upon these services with a jaded eye.

These services are a dime a dozen in Hollywood.
And they prey upon those who are completely desperate or just ignorant.
You cannot purchase your way into this game.

When you are in the right place at the right time--with the right product, then the doors open up for you.

Most screenplays (nearly all actually) written by amateurs completely stink.
Read that last line again--and contemplate it upon the "Tree Of Woe."
And the professionals know this fact.
This is why the system has been set up sooo f-ing difficult to penetrate.

How much bad material must a person be forced to plough through?!

The whole game is rigged (yes rigged and structured) to allow only the best (5% at most) to get read by credible people.
And of that percentage, only a smaller percentage go on to get bought, and a smaller percentage get produced.

By subscribing to a service it tells someone that you're sending material to that you cannot hack it. That you cannot make the grade to get an agent--or that you're too freakin' dumb to do so.

A: They really got to like your work.
B: They really got to like you as a person.
C: They really have to be able to trust you to perform (development, re-writes, etc.)
D: Your material has to be consistantly excellent.
E: Your material has to be consistantly excellent.

An electronic query does not give you this.
You must break-in to this industry--if you can't, you can't.

The truth is sometimes a hard thing to swallow.
But someone has to whack people in the head with a telephone book.

T

You sound like a real sweetheart.

Everyone knows how hard it is to pentrate the machine. Everyone. It's when you justify it as right that makes you sound like a little bit of a d-bag. And I only say that because it looks like you're trying to do it - in sort of a Rossio-ian way.

I've worked in the music industry and am constantly amazed at the amount of people in that industry who have absolutely NO idea how bad they are. It's really quite shocking. We see those people every year on American Idol vowing that the world hasn't seen the end of them after they've just butchered the hell out of some Billy Ocean song. Same ones who would show up at the studio.

Anyway, I'm sure that the Screenwriters Universe is no different. I'm sure any industry that appears to be easy, glamourous and lucrative is. But to sit back and suggest that without notable exception, the top writers (5% - which has to be incredibly arbitrary) get work because they're that good and the rest of us 95% (the blind suckers) can't because we suck, is a ridiculously easy way to accept or even justify the difficulty of working in this industry. So are you're saying that we should just give up after a few tries because it's just a fight against Darwinism?

How about the writer who is that good but has no idea where to begin? How about the person who doesn't instictively have the inate ability to navigate waters they've never even seen before. Does that person stop writing?

I think to dismiss every one of these services as disingenuous just because you possess the elusive savy to penetrate isn't quite fair. And to conclude that writers who use these services are doing so only because they suck and can't make it as a reflection of their material is arrogant.

[Farnsworth]

5% sounds about right. I bet less than 5% get through the initial screening on American Idol.

Anyone wanting a career as a writer should dedicate at least 10 years of study and practice, just for starters, before they even start to think about networking.

Using a stupid service like Screen Query only distracts you from networking once you have studied and practiced and have written some stories that may be presentable.

I don't get some of your arguments, ruby. But please try to refrain from calling folks "d-bags" (unless it's Screen Query) merely because they tell it like it is in Hollywood.

It's a brutally tough biz to break into. Crack the first nut: writing a great script.

[jboffer]

Takezo, I'm not counting on screenwriting as a career. I have a career I'm happy with. Screenwriting is my dream job. So I'm not moving to L.A. unless I break into the business. Well, if I have a pile of scripts completed a few years down the road I'm really happy with, then I'd consider moving.

No one will convince me that entering the Austin Film Festival was a bad idea or that it couldn't potentially make my career. It could. The odds are just really, really small, but I'm fully aware of that. I also think my stuff is pretty damn good, but that will be for the jury to decide. At the least, I know I'm not of the oblivious American Idol type. I'm absolutely positive.

I already get paid to write advertising. And maybe some day it'll be movies. I don't need a lecture about how hard it is to get into Hollywood--I just want to know my best options given the situation. Thanks to everyone for their input, though.

Good advice on the query services--I have been told and suspected the very same. I also agree you can't "buy" your way into the business, but paying the entry fee for big contests is much different. Talent will still reign supreme.

Also, I'm not in Iowa anymore. Chicago :)

[ruby-throated phil]

THe message is that unless you currently already have all the nuts, having the first one doesn't really matter.

[Takezo]

Everyone knows how hard it is to pentrate the machine. Everyone. It's when you justify it as right that makes you sound like a little bit of a d-bag.

If I'm a d-bag for tell you the real truth--then I'll proudly be a d-bag!
And maybe you didn't get it--I'm not defending or saying that this sucky system is correct... I'm just saying that this is how it is, and it somehow, someway works.

And the figure of 5% of all material get read by the "correct people" is probably a tad too large.
There is an incredible amount of material generated--and honestly most all of it stinks.

And this is why such a small percentage of would-be writers get signed.
And even a smaller percentage sell.

Wrap your mind around these facts.

Only the scum rises to the top of the pond.
And believe me--we writers are the butt-holes of the film industry.
We're just a necessary nusance.
Just to be the scum floating on top of pond, is a good thing.
At least you get seen and noticed.

I'm personally shooting to be a big old empty plastic milk container floating atop that pond--then I'll really be happy!

So all the wanna' be's and newbies and head scratchers have to take a deep breath and hard deep down personal assessment--and the first question you have to ask yourself is... "do I really, honestly, trully possess the necessary talent to write?" "Am I just kidding myself?" "Can I sit down and actually produce something?" "Can I execute work?"

I gave a lecture to some film students in Utah a while back and told them flat out that they were training for jobs that didn't exist--and that at the most one or two of them really would have the talent to succeed in the entertainment industry... and even that would not gurantee to pay the bils. This didn't sit well. Especially with the instructor/professors who are in the "education business" (which goes hat and hand with the gadfly entertainment scam artists). This is not what is said in the film schools, seminars, pay-services, etc. But this needs to be said.

What I trully hate are these seminars/talks/dog-and-pony-shows with entertainment executives, directors, actors, agents, etc. --where all the wanna' be's and break-in hopefulls sit dutifully in the theater and nod like bobble-head dolls, and smile and laugh at the stupid jokes and stories from these people they for some reason revere--who are seemingly on a pedestal. These venues are like feeding coke to a coke addict. The necessary hard things are never, ever discussed--only vague hopes and carrots are dangled in front of these people who are desperately searching for some nugget, some straw to grasp onto. The hard facts are never ever discussed. All they offer you is, "follow your dreams." --and if you do this, it is recipe for personal, emotional and finanancial disaster. This is the worst advice you can offer someone.

It's best to smack them in the side of the head with a phone book and say, "what the **** are you thinking?"

Sorry to pop your bubble but some people have to wake up.
Time to rub the crumbs out of your eyes.

T

[Takezo]

Anyone wanting a career as a writer should dedicate at least 10 years of study and practice, just for starters, before they even start to think about networking.

Yeah this is a good idea.

But make it five or six years.
If you can't write something good in this period of time and generate some heat--open a plumbing business (not kidding, it pays good).

T

[ruby-throated phil]

Fair enough.

Sorry about the d-bag comment.

[jboffer]

...and the first question you have to ask yourself is... "do I really, honestly, trully possess the necessary talent to write?"

Yes I do :)

[ruby-throated phil]

Ditto.

[Takezo]

Good.
So if you can honestly and truly answer that million dollar question without any delusions--then pursue it.

But know full well what you are getting into.

T

[Takezo]

And go back up and read that last big post.
I added/edited some in after the fact.
Sorry, but this is the way my mind works.

T

[Takezo]

Takezo, I'm not counting on screenwriting as a career. I have a career I'm happy with. Screenwriting is my dream job. So I'm not moving to L.A. unless I break into the business.

Then it well be incredibly tough.
It can be done.

Look at Joe Niehalt--he did it, but he is an exceptionaly talented writer.
And he had the right product, at the right time with the right person.

Since you live in the mid-west, try and hook up with a Chicago based lit agent.
They never, hardly ever get anything worth reading. lol!

I hate the word luck.
Luck is not some do-dah thing that just happens.

In poker luck is a product of skill and opportunity.
There are two variables involved in this equation.

Luck in the film industry writing is a combination of skill (material/type), timming (needs) and placement (agent/purchaser/director/producer/etc.).

All of these elements have to come together for you to have luck.
And all of these elements aren't just do-dah random.

You've got to know what they/them are looking for, who is looking, and when they are looking--and an agent/manager knows this.
Not some goofy query email service that you pay for.

Movies take two to three years to make, and they are looking ahead at the trends and what will come out already in 2012 and 2013.

T

[jboffer]

I thought of looking for an agent in Chicago. But I was guessing it would just tie me down with someone who would be wasting both our time. Really, do they have any connection to Hollywood? Is it worth exploring?

[Takezo]

Look, Chiacago is better than nothing.
You can parlay that into something bigger and better later if they turn out to be a donkey.

T

[jboffer]

I already started a google search and man, nothing looks promising.

[Farnsworth]

I gave a lecture to some film students in Utah a while back and told them flat out that they were training for jobs that didn't exist--and that at the most one or two of them really would have the talent to succeed in the entertainment industry... and even that would not gurantee to pay the bils. This didn't sit well. Especially with the instructor/professors who are in the "education business" (which goes hat and hand with the gadfly entertainment scam artists). This is not what is said in the film schools, seminars, pay-services, etc. But this needs to be said.

T

Such courses and venues are driven by pure demand. Hope and wishful thinking is becoming big business. Look at the proliferation of contests in the last few years.

[docgonzo]

I already started a google search and man, nothing looks promising.

I wouldn't bother with Chicago agents. The studios, networks and vast majority of production companies are in LA. So query LA-based managers. If they like your material, come out here for a week or two for meet-and-greets.

[Landis26]

Look, Chiacago is better than nothing.
You can parlay that into something bigger and better later if they turn out to be a donkey.

T

Yeah, like a bigger and better LA donkey.

[Takezo]

Such courses and venues are driven by pure demand. Hope and wishful thinking is becoming big business. Look at the proliferation of contests in the last few years.

It's really, really sick.
And shame on they/them who are trading off of this stuff.

Take a look at that "Pitchfest" video on Youtube about their up coming event this June.

Look at this donkey in front of the camera.
Jeeze.
Then look how they line up all the prospects and then shuffle them off to low-level snot-noses.

Yeah they may get some advice from these so called industry people who show up.
But no one who can make a decision will be there.
No one who can really green light something will show up.

If you study the video this is an audition process that perfectly mirrors the American Idol process. It's identical.

At best you'll get some low-leve baby development exec to be present.
Of course they're all there to support the arts, yada, yada, yada.

Honestly, we need more screenwriters like we need more lawyers and child molsters.
And I'm not say were down on that level.
No way.

There are too many people tyring for too few jobs.

If I were to teach a course on screenwriting (hint, hint to all you egg head academics) it would be offered only once every three years. And you would have to audition to get in--and show something (even if written on a table napkin) that you can actually write and express youself on paper. Perhaps 25 to 30 students accepted. And this class would be exactly 6 to 7 months long--and it would start out with the basic facts of the industry that I laid out above. Then we would work on (select) the material you will be producing in this time period--because at the end you will be expected to pump out a fully developed, completed commercial screenplay. Then we'd go into structure--and then to beat outline in the first few weeks. It would be a four hour 1/2 hour class three times a week. Very intensive the way they make you work at Art Center School Of Design in Pasadena (a school you have to have talent to get in).

We'd learn pitching, beat outling, business and so on--the meat of the industry and how to keep your head above water.

Each class would have an hour of lecture and then you have to pound out words on a paper. You would actually have to produce something and finish it by the middle of the term--then spend the rest of the term polishing it.

These Tech schools have the right idea--they can turn out a product in a set time frame.

This is what we need today again.
We don't need systems/business/schools trading on fantasy and hopes.

T

[Takezo]

Yeah, like a bigger and better LA donkey.

Really I can't tell you where to start looking.
LA is the place where 90% of all the action takes place.
So start looking here.

But if you get a bite, you will have to be prepared to jump on a plane and get some face-time with these people.

T

[zenplato]

These Tech schools have the right idea--they can turn out a product in a set time frame.


Not sure what you mean by this? Are you saying that if you go to tech school they have a good system of preparing you for the real world?

If so, that's not the case, at all. You don't need any education to become a "tech" person.

Those schools and certificates mean nothing for the most part. A few of them hold some merit, but experience trumps all.

[Takezo]

I already started a google search and man, nothing looks promising.

Okay dude, but ask yourself this....

Do you have something akin to the Hope Diamond to lay on these people?
Do you have the goods?

I mean, is this going to F-ing make their asses squirm... as Harry Cohen (head of Columbia) once said, "I know if it's good if it makes my ass squirm."

You're trying out for the AAA teams now.

T

[ddlogan]

I advise everybody on this forum to ignore Takezo's past and future posts. He has way too much freetime on his hands, don't take anything with even a grain of salt.

[Farnsworth]

I advise everybody on this forum to ignore Takezo's past and future posts. He has way too much freetime on his hands, don't take anything with even a grain of salt.

I advise everybody on this forum to ignore ddlogan's past and future posts. He has way too much freetime on his hands, don't take anything with even a grain of salt.

Takezo is the kind of poster you search for on the Members List so that you don't miss one bon mot.

[Takezo]

Not sure what you mean by this? Are you saying that if you go to tech school they have a good system of preparing you for the real world?

No, not for screenwriting.
I'm just saying that these tech schools structure the programs to get you out into the world quicker.

The universities structure their programs to suck the maximum amount of tuition and time from you--and then not prepare you to deal the mission at hand.

And if you think a degree from a film school is going to get you anything at all--you're completely delusional.

They are all meaningless. A waste of money and time.
I know this kid who has over 100K in school loan debt from going to USC.
Talk about insane!? Jesus wept!

You can take 15K and set up a complete studio in your home with a Apple system and HD camera--go out and shoot a short or a feature, put it on the internet, get up or down on the learning curve without all the tuition and talking heads and years of time wasted. Actually it would be cheaper, and you'd learn a whole lot faster.

Look at my old school Cal State Northridge.
When I went there it was about 40 years behind the times.
They had a closet full of old Oricon 16mm Cameras, some old donated sticks and gaffer equipment, and three movieola (sp?) machines. And one of the main professors claim to fame was that he made propaganda films for Fidel Castro during the summer months--like that's going to get you somewhere, or teach you something.

Last year I got a contribution letter from my alumni association. They were bragging about how they just installed 35mm equipment (mix, editing, etc.) in the film program.

Okay---now they're only 20 years behind the times.
This is a joke.

I'm just saying there's a quicker way to seperate the chaff from the wheat.

If I were rich and won the lottery somehow--and had a lot of free time on my hands, I would open up a seminar like I describe. And I wouldn't charge a cent--only that it would be hard a F to get in. And I would crack the whip, and sometimes make you cry (actually a whole lot), but you'd actually get something done. But, alas this is not going to happen.

FYI the guy I write with did an internship with Robert Towne.
And I studied directly under a (currently) famous working director when he was teaching college classes a while back.

And we sat up straight and kept our mouths shut.

Also... this what my agent says when I go into meeting with him (he goes also)... "sit up straight and keep your mouth shut!"

I love my agent.



T

[ddlogan]

Just hanging around to see if Takezo would reply right away and he did. He or she, I don't know? This is an example of the kinds of people that aspiring, naive writers need to watch out for.

Review the five pages that this post has grown to. Almost every day, hour and minute he responds. Think and know people.

[Takezo]

Okay dude, go and reinvent the wheel all over again, and again.

Somewhere, somehow, sometime, someone will sit down with you and 'splain it all in remedial terms.

T

[Farnsworth]

Takezo,

What do you think of the Nicholl's contest?

[Takezo]

Don't know it.
Actually I'm trying to pump out at least 5 good pages today, and somehow I got sidetracked on this thread again.

So post a link and let me take a look.

But you already know what I think of these.
If you go out with a script to these competitions--you're going wide with your material and exposing your hand and giving the material the kiss of death at the same time. You may win--but what will it win you?

The brass ring is an agent or sale or both.

T

[Farnsworth]

I agree, although I have never heard the "kiss of death" argument.

What tells me a lot about you're feelings about it is that you've never heard of it.

I agree that you should market your scripts with managers and agents and forget the contests.

[jboffer]

Don't know it.
Actually I'm trying to pump out at least 5 good pages today, and somehow I got sidetracked on this thread again.

So post a link and let me take a look.

But you already know what I think of these.
If you go out with a script to these competitions--you're going wide with your material and exposing your hand and giving the material the kiss of death at the same time. You may win--but what will it win you?

The brass ring is an agent or sale or both.

T

Take a look at the success stories. Sometimes it involves a sale/option of your script, other times representation.

Obviously I'd be ecstatic to sell a script, but representation alone would be huge.

Take a look at the thread (in the contest section) for the Austin Film Festival. Apparently it's a great networking opportunity.

I think you're unfairly grouping stupid start-up contests with no validity (most) with the really prestigious contests (few). You didn't know about Nicholl? That's an instant ticket into the business.

[Landis26]

To paraphrase Oliver Stone "Parents pay a lot of money for their kids to go to film school, to be in a business that 90% of them won't ever make it in at all, or will barely make a decent living doing."

[Takezo]

You didn't know about Nicholl? That's an instant ticket into the business.

Honestly, I don't fixate on the contests, nor track them.
Or do I care to have any interest in them.

I don't have to.
I have an outlet for my material (agent)--I've had outlets for my stuff since the late 80's.

There are a lot of writers (many crappy), but if you don't have an outlet for your material--it's just a hobby.

These competitions may be good to get some recognition, but you will have to pump out something again, and again--and eventually get off the competition/gadfly tit.

T

[Takezo]

Obviously I'd be ecstatic to sell a script, but representation alone would be huge.

This should be your minimum goal.
A sale would also be sweet, but once you got someone on your side, there's a big reason to continue writing.


You should have goals--written down and not pie-in-the-sky ****.
You should strive to hit your markers.

Take a look at the thread (in the contest section) for the Austin Film Festival. Apparently it's a great networking opportunity.

If this is the case--then get all over it.
But make sure there are real opportunities to do this--else your just spinning your wheels.

Look, dude... if you have the goods--put the meat to an agent/manager.
I mean you really must have the goods to pull it off.

T

[theblondewritr]

I'm looking for connections in general. And being in the midwest makes that more difficult


Hello Jboffer. You mentioned you're in Chicago.
You're wanting to make connections.

The Illinois Film Office recently announced its 2008 profits.
'It's the second most profitable year in Illinois History'.

What does this mean for you?

Well, it means that films are being made in Illinois and you
can network here-despite the distance from Hollywood.

You can post your skills on the IFO website and network with
other writers who've listed their services, check out daily
cast and crew postings, etc. Get involved!

Write. Get involved in the film-making process here in IL.
Make contacts. Schlep yourself. Write.

Here's the link to the IFO (in case you don't already have it--
and to follow, the link to the article about IL film profits for 2008.

If you're truly committed, well, you'll make it happen.

You'll make someone's but jiggle eventually (lmao)
if you're THAT good.

http://www.illinoisfilm.biz/index.php

http://ifo.jtpr.net/images/stories/Press_Releases/PressRelease_05.14.09.pdf

[evepeabody]

Another Chicago resource: Chicago Dramatists, a playwriting group.

http://www.chicagodramatists.org/home/index.html

The focus is on plays, but many of the resident dramatists/teachers are also screenwriters.

It's a very supportive group, good classes, and they go out of their way to provide showcases for your work. In the 10-minute workshop, you work with an ensemble of actors to develop your short plays and then they perform them to an audience who offers lots of feedback in a session after the show.

While screenwriting of course is a visual medium, you can't go wrong developing your abilities to write believable characters, great dialogue, and scene structure. Plus, having your work performed before an audience jolts your writing IQ and IMO can improve your work more than anything -- you actually hear what works for an audience and learn what plays and what falls flat.

And in addition to the IFO info above, the Independent Film Project also has an office in Chicago and they offer seminars, networking opportunities, etc.

[Takezo]

Ditto the last two posts.
Just get off your ass and make something happen.

T

[jboffer]

Ditto the last two posts.
Just get off your ass and make something happen.

T

Don't give me that.

I have a life way beyond screenwriting, I'm lucky I find time to squeeze in two pages a day.

The last thing I've ever done is sit on my ass. I've been working since I was eleven. My career is more than full time as it is.

Jesus... "get off your ass"... I'm not sitting around eating chips all day, dude.

[Takezo]

Sorry, I wasn't implying that you're lazy.... it's just a "first act call to action."
You have to make it happen.
And if you can only put in two good pages a day for two months--you'll have a bingo.


T

[Scripted77]

Here's a couple tips from someone who used to live in Chicago, and also writes TV commercials for a living:

Don't get a Chicago-based rep. If your writing is good enough, you can find an LA manager by querying.

Enter the Illinois screenwriting contest. Your competition is weak and it's a nice ego boost.

I landed an assignment while I was in Chicago -- through my LA rep -- by traveling to NY for the meeting. It can be done.

Since you're in advertising anyway, enjoy being on production in LA. Enjoy casting. Enjoy nice hotels! Enjoy picking directors, then working with them. I can't tell you how much I appreciate my production experience, and how much I learned from it. Plus prospective LA reps are more interested when you mention you're in LA for work every other month (or whatever).

[Takezo]

Why didn't someone tell me this guy was in advertising?!
This industry is already the bastard-child of the entertainment industry (or is it the other way around now?).
They're connected!

Is this guy a copywriter?
If so even better.
Or even an Account Rep is good.

I bet he has to come out to LA on shoots and meetings.
They/them at his agency haved to hire directors/talking heads/DP's/etc.
All of these people are represented are they not?!

If this guy has any kind of dealings with these reps--even down to, "how do you do" in the morning on a set--utilize this. They will take his calls. Just cold-call and say this is "so and so from XYZ" may I speak to XXX?" Lay it out short and sweet--but like I say have the goods. Or even ask one of the people your agency is hiring--does his agency have lit-reps? If so, ask for an introduction. What are they going to do, say no?

Going from advertising to la-la land is just stepping from one stone to the next.

T

[jboffer]

Yup, I'm a copywriter. Haven't been to LA yet, but many of my coworkers have. Just moved to an agency in Chicago and so far everything is amazing. Meeting some really bright people, lots with film experience (both as a hobby and from commercials).

One creative director I'm close with knows a lot of people and "guarantees" he could get a meeting with J.J. Abrams. So I'm considering going sci-fi for my next script.

To be honest, I got a lot of moving up to do before I'm sent on an LA trip. I'm 22, just got my undergraduate degree this May. Yet I've worked in the industry for two years already and was good enough to get in without getting a masters degree at a portfolio school. Mostly because I've worked my butt off constantly. Which is why I kind of snapped a few posts back (sorry about that, had just got back from a night of drinking!).

[Takezo]

If you can get a meeting with JJ Abrams--and invite me along, I'm buying you dinner when you get out here.
In fact--I'll be your best of bestest friends.

This transitions should be a no-brainer!
Why all the handwringing?!!
You'll be in dude!

Mostly because I've worked my butt off constantly. Which is why I kind of snapped a few posts back (sorry about that, had just got back from a night of drinking!).

Keeping you nose to the grindstone is a good thing.
Just apply this sort of semi-delusional fixation upon a screenplay and I'll be pitching to you in a couple of years.
And you're only 22!! You're still a snot-nose--you've got nowhere to go but up, and the time to do it.
I wish I had your problems.


T

[jboffer]

If you can get a meeting with JJ Abrams--and invite me along, I'm buying you dinner when you get out here.
In fact--I'll be your best of bestest friends.

This transitions should be a no-brainer!
Why all the handwringing?!!
You'll be in dude!

T

Ha. We'll see about that. I'm happy to be in an industry where the connections are possible, but they aren't going to happen anytime soon. I think three to five years from now may be a different story. I'm starting from the bottom, after all.

And he can only deliver on the JJ meeting if the idea is beyond badass. So, like always, I got work to do.

EDIT: Also, that JJ comment came last night, so it's news to me as well.

[Landis26]

And he can only deliver on the JJ meeting if the idea is beyond badass. So, like always, I got work to do.

EDIT: Also, that JJ comment came last night, so it's news to me as well.

How many times have I and other writers I know heard this - A producer (or wannabe producer) says "we are going to make this script! I can definitely get this done! All we need is an attachment! Now if we can just get Tom Cruise to come on board..."

Not to bust you dream bubble, but take that "I can deliver JJ Abrams" with a grain of salt.

[jboffer]

How many times has it been said to me and other writers I know- A producer (or wannabe producer) says "we are going to make this script! I can definitely get this done! All we need is an attachment! Now if we can just get Tom Cruise on board..."

Not to bust you dream bubble, but take that "I can deliver JJ Abrams" with a grain of salt.

No worries, it's taken with a very large grain of salt. The guy is really well connected, but obviously that doesn't mean he can talk to whoever he wants when he wants to.

[Scripted77]

Hey JB -- Are the creative guy's initials JM or SP? Just wondering.

[jboffer]

Hey JB -- Are the creative guy's initials JM or SP? Just wondering.

I know a JM in Chicago, but it wasn't the guy I was talking about. This JM is a creative director also.

[Scripted77]

Okay well the dude I'm thinking about also does great magic tricks, which should narrow it down.

If it's him, PM me.

[richnwealthy]

If you can get a meeting with JJ Abrams--and invite me along, I'm buying you dinner when you get out here.
In fact--I'll be your best of bestest friends.

This transitions should be a no-brainer!
Why all the handwringing?!!
You'll be in dude!

Mostly because I've worked my butt off constantly. Which is why I kind of snapped a few posts back (sorry about that, had just got back from a night of drinking!).

Keeping you nose to the grindstone is a good thing.
Just apply this sort of semi-delusional fixation upon a screenplay and I'll be pitching to you in a couple of years.
And you're only 22!! You're still a snot-nose--you've got nowhere to go but up, and the time to do it.
I wish I had your problems.


T

I have to admit your a smart guy with a lot of knowledge. I think you brought a lot of good points about the online services being offered, also offering the truth of how the business really works. If anything, I think you should offer a service on advising future screenplay and hopeful writers like myself.

[joe9alt]

Takezo, I'm not counting on screenwriting as a career. I have a career I'm happy with. Screenwriting is my dream job. So I'm not moving to L.A. unless I break into the business.

Then it well be incredibly tough.
It can be done.

Look at Joe Niehalt--he did it, but he is an exceptionaly talented writer.
And he had the right product, at the right time with the right person.



Yes, Takezo is a genius and obviously a man of exquisitely refined taste!!!

Except he spelled my name wrong. :shifty: