PDA

View Full Version : Suggestions for scr(i)pt


Dr Stiggers
05-03-2003, 02:44 PM
I read and enjoy scr(i)pt. I have suggestions for future
issues.

First, when interviewing “first sale” screenwriters, get
a beat by beat account of how they went from unsold
to sold. Too many interviews in screenwriting mags and
Web Sites read like this: “I got this idea of a 10 year
old kid who could throw a 90 MPH fastball. I wrote the
script in three weeks then Josh Goodstein at Good
Machine read it, loved it and showed it to Universal
who bought it.” And that‘s all the background detail
we get.

Ugh.

This is maddening to the aspiring writer because the
interview offers nothing the reader can duplicate
toward achieving his/her own success. Why else is
the reader reading the article in the first place? Make
this interviewees cough up the goods. Will’s interviews
here on Done Deal are exemplary as he probes and asks
the questions pre-pros would if given the opportunity.

In publicity interviews, many screenwriters gloss over
crucial “how I made it” details because they want to
maximize the melodrama of their success. The subtext
is clear, “I went from liquor store clerk to sold
screenwriter without really trying because I‘m a
****in’ genius.” Sometimes what these writers don’t
want to reveal are eye opening facts such as their
co-writer just happens to be the cousin of the Director
of Development at Universal Studios. Granted, those
blessed with built-in connections only have the door
opened and their script lives or dies by its commercial
potential. But ultimately this is frustrating to the
average reader because people with connections to
the biz have access to insider info such as what a
producer/studio is specifically looking for and, most
important is their access to oodles of previously sold
specs which serve as any aspiring screenwriter’s
most resourceful reference.

The only lesson may be to network and hope you click
with someone with a connection and perhaps that’s
solid advice, but it’d help if we knew exactly how each
newly sold scribe closed the degrees of separation
between wannabe and sold writer.

Often only during my meetings with D-people do I
learn the real back story of several screenwriters’
initial successes. Sometimes these writers take poetic
license with the truth in their publicity interviews but
I believe scr(i)pt can get the real skinny without
becoming adversarial. Readers want to know a writer
celebrating a first sale got his agent. Through a
friend? How do they know the friend? Did the writer
query the agent? How many queries did the writer
send out? What month did they query? Readers buy
screenwriting magazines scouring for road maps and
avenues into the business beyond just writing a
saleable script. Every little detail in success stories is appreciated.

Second, more coverage on first time writers in general
would be refreshing. The Top Ten Writers to Watch
piece in the March/April issue should have been
devoted more space. In fact, that should’ve been
your cover story with more in depth coverage on each
writer. One of those writers, Holly Brix, just sold another
spec. It'd be interesting to hear more about her process
and how found her representation.

I have a few boilerplate questions (besides how the
first vital connection was made) that may be ideal for
future screenwriter interviews: How long did it take
from the time your agent sent your script out till an
offer was made? What is more important, reading
scripts or watching movies? How important do you
believe living in Hollywood was to getting your break?
Extremely? Or did it matter? What has been your
biggest surprise since arriving in Hollywood? Would you
describe your outlining process? Please, tell us a
few produced scripts you believe every pre-pro
should read (and include a link or contact info where
these scripts may be obtained for “educational
purposes only.”) Tell us what dramas, novels or
authors you recommend aspiring scriptwriters read.

Third, sorry but I don’t think the majority of your
readers really care how a veteran scribe adapted a
novel into a screenplay. Most of the readers are pre-
pros and they cannot even identify with a millionaire
writer struggling with an adaptation of a Pulitzer Prize
winning novel. No rooting interest there. I could be
wrong, but I think most readers would rather read an
anonymous screenwriter’s first-sale-to-development-
hell/heaven memoir.

Fourth, how about some features on direct-to-video
producers and writers. Most movies released in any
given year fit into this category and this arena has
proven to be a reliable ignition for many screenwriting
careers. Interesting profiles may include Promark,
Concorde-New Horizons, York, Dimension Home
Video, Universal Family, Warner Home Video, and
Columbia-TriStar. What percentage of their projects
do they originate in house? What are their script
guidelines? How do they find writers?

Fifth, I’d like to see scr(i)pt’s excellent columnists,
John Hill and Ray Morton, breakdown genres by cliché
and convention. In other words, what events, in most
circumstances, are vital to a story and what can be
discarded as hoary cliché. For example, in a romantic
comedy, two people want to come together but a
situation forces them apart, without this convention a
story probably couldn’t be considered a romcom. But
do we need the third act epiphany and subsequent
“chase the lover leaving on a jet plane” denouement?
Certainly, that’s an unnecessary cliché -- or is it?
Deciding between convention and cliché is critical when
laying down structure and I’ve never read a thorough
article on this agonizing process.

Sixth, I like to see ground broken on an analysis of
over-the-top screenwriting. Define it. From my personal
knowledge, the over-the-top complaint is quickly
becoming the number one reason why otherwise good
scripts get dinged by buyers. A thorough examination
would contrast a screenplay scene that oozes over-the-
top with the same scene dryly, but compellingly
executed. Also, it’d be enlightening to read a take on
the differences between the dreaded Over-The-Top
Concept verses the Hollywood friendly High Concept
of 2003 (for instance, I’d like to know why ghosts are
practically the ONLY SF/Fantasy/Horror characters
that DON”T rub most spec buyers the wrong way).

And how ’bout an update of Ray Morton’s brilliant
“Scripts I Never Need Read Again” article. Have any
additional red flags recently unfurled?

Seventh, I’d like to see an article about age, both in
writers and in characters featured in scripts. Do young
film school grads who venture out to Hollywood with
their fresh scripts featuring twenty-something and teen
protagonists have the advantage over older people
locked in non-film careers (and living lives nowhere
near Hollywood) whose scripts typically feature main
characters aged thirty and up? Since the average
D-person is in his/her twenties, does the age on the
page make a significant difference? Or is it because
under twenty-five year-old moviegoers continually
prove to be the most reliable patrons at the box
office and unless a film is a big event movie (based
on familiar material from another medium) these folks
want to see people like themselves? Or is there no
bias at all?

Last, I realize the cult of celebrity is hard to ignore
but actors should never grace the cover any
scriptwriter‘s periodical. Such as it is, movie publicity
shots on the cover page make scr(i)pt look like a
Premiere Magazine retread at first glance. Celebrate
the scribbler who has the most difficult (and thankless)
job in the film business even though everyone knows
his work is “where film begins.”

Rx

writerly
05-03-2003, 07:50 PM
duuuuude why don't you just post a frickin novel for chris-akes?? procrastination a luvely thing, huh? maybe they'll hire you on as a writer.
:eek
:)
however, i like the cliche/genre point. but I have to admit I skimmed.

Boobsie Malone
05-03-2003, 08:13 PM
I didn't skim, and Dr. Stiggers has some great suggestions. I would totally be on board with buying this mag every month if it truly had things to teach me.

The multimillionaire scribe who adapts the book is not something I'm interested in either. I'm not there. I'm desperate to learn about what I can do at my level. Or validate that I'm doing what other people who've succeeded are doing... Etc.

Of course, I'd like to see all of this directly pertain to televion writing. But, maybe, that's just me.

briadear
05-03-2003, 10:20 PM
I, too, agree that Dr. Stigger's suggestions are great.

I agree with him that in basic interviews of first-sale writers, we only get the broad-strokes of their climb to that achievement and, consequently, it gives the impression that this kind of achievement is relatively easy. And. It. Is. NOT!!! Learning these writers' step-by-step attempts to get their work noticed would not only be a wonderful learning experience for aspiring screenwriters, as well as aid in understanding how this crazy business works, but it would also have an incredible impact on the reader knowing that a sale had been achieved. I know it would inspire me to know that "so-and-so" was rejected 100 times before someone even looked at their work, or whatever. You get the drift. There was a poster who frequented here some time ago, who told me in chat that their work had been rejected 400 times before someone liked it. That was so inspiring to me to see that persistance. I can't imagine learning that from another writer wouldn't inspire and encourage other aspiring writers, you know?

And I also like the suggestion on the article about the age thing.

And Dr. Stiggers is right about putting actors on the cover. I know that probably helps sell magazines to the public. But, it would be great to have a magazine honors the screenwriter, who for soooooo long has been shown little respect for their incredible talent.

In any case, thank you for taking these suggestions into consideration.

Bria

UserName
05-03-2003, 10:26 PM
I agree with Doc.

johanh
05-04-2003, 01:30 PM
i´m with doc on this one

le kilt
05-04-2003, 02:24 PM
The Doc Rocks !

Great to see you back, Dr. S. Worried we'd lost you here.

scr(i)pt honchos please take note of the doc's suggestions; all spot-on in my book.

wcmartell
05-04-2003, 03:00 PM
The Top Ten article was my suggestion - one of 6 top ten subjects. Don't know what happened to the other 5 - maybe they're coming. They included stuff like Ten Greatest Unproduced Scripts and Ten Most Butchered Scripts and Ten Best Pro Writers (with examples of WHY they are considered the best). The idea was to have a "Top Ten" series that is filled with insider info about writers & scripts.

Along with adaptations - does anyone care about indie writer-producer-directors? Should the focus be on spec scripts?

I did a bunch of stuff on DTV several years ago - and there have been articles in issues since then - but maybe it's time to do another. (might be my january column)

The cliches thing is a good idea. I did a two parter on Thrillers last year that examined the WHY behind the cliches, and am trying to finish an article on horror movies for an upcoming issue. If you know the story reasons behind the cliches you can find something else that fits the same story purpose - I did a Script Tip on the airport run in rom-coms:
www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tip233.htm (http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tip233.htm)
but a series of articles on different genre conventions & cliches is a great idea.

I don't think any screenwriting magazine has had as many screenwriters on the cover as Scr(i)pt. But the cover is the trailer for the magazine - it's what gets people to pick up the mag at the news stand and buy it. A few years back we had Scott Rosenberg on the cover... do you know what he looks like? Did anyone who looked at the cover on the news stand say to themselves "That's Scott Rosenberg! I'm gonna buy that magazine!" Most *writers* don't know what writers look like. The current issue has X-MEN on the cover - a cool shot of the X with stills from the movie as "legs" of the X. Inside the magazine are photos of the two guys who wrote the script that was used - but if you put those guys on the cover I'd have no idea who they are. I KNOW what X-MEN is, I'm excited about the movie and I want to know about the writing of the film - so I grab the magazine from the news stand. It's not *actors* on the cover, it's MOVIES (written by screenwriters). If someone confuses Scr(i)pt with Premiere - that's probably a good thing... what's the circulation of Premiere? I do think the writers NAMES should be on the cover.

I think it'd be fun to do an article called:
Is "over the top" the new "not edgy enough"?

- Bill

Hamboogul
05-05-2003, 02:42 AM
I liked what they did in Screentalk mag where they followed five writers after they won the Nicholl. I think it'd be cool to profile (not necessarily Nicholl winners) aspiring writers (perhaps a Nicholl winner, another unsold writer who might be repped at a Big Five, someone from a WB workshop, etc.) and track their progress.

Like Hoop Dreams for screenwriting, if you will.

ScrLife
05-05-2003, 05:18 PM
If you can find a copy of my book "The Screenwriting Life," I interview some 25 writers and producers, and the first question I ask is how they got to where they are. In my articles for Scr(i)pt, I continue to seek out how people got their break and craft stories. While my focus is mostly oriented for TV, the lessons still apply to feature writing.

There are many roads into Hollywood, but they aren't easy to walk (or jog or run) down and there are no physical road signs. Execs and producers don't walk around with messages on their head reading: "I need a good script, come talk to me." Basically, you first have to write something powerful (actually a couple great scripts is your best bet), with a unique story line or character or spin on an existing genre. Once you can write (understand structure, etc) and execute that, then it gets down to making contacts. That's where the rubber meets the road. Write query letters, enter contests, come to LA and fight to get a job in the industry and meet people, go to Sundance and all the other film related gatherings and meet people, find the bars and cafés where industry people hang out: make contacts. Continue to pound away. Make your own low budget movie and enter it in the festivals and create some buzz--and contacts. Realize that there are tens of thousands of quality writers already here in LA doing this at this very moment. There is no other way to break in! This is the most competitive business in the world, and anyone can enter.

If you're not prepared to fight the fight, then write your edgy, quirky stories and when you're done, put the scripts on a shelf in your den after sharing it with a few family members and friends, then go watch TV . . . or go watch someone else's movie.

This business is every bit as competitive as any pro sport. If you're looking for the quick, easy in, forget it! The only path to selling is: Work to get it on the page, and work to get it into the marketplace.

Violator
05-06-2003, 11:35 AM
Oh my god, Dr. Stiggers you RULE!

I would subscribe to this magazine if they followed all of his advice here. As it is now, I look at it when I'm at the bookstore, and when I see "Men in Black II" as one of the features, I put it back on the shelf.

The Doc is right. This is a magazine geared toward pre-pro's, it should focus on spec scripts -- especially first-time break-in specs. I'm not interested in reading about how a sequel came to be, because it's almost never a work of love, it's usually just done for money. (Obviously, filmmaking is first and foremost a business, but money is the only factor in making a film, its credibility diminishes greatly.) However, if you want to really get behind the scenes and let us in on the politics of choosing writers for these assignments, that would be cool.

scriptmag
05-06-2003, 12:24 PM
You guys RULE.
These suggestions are great. We are currently planning a Breaking In issue for Sept/Oct because of these posts. Keep 'em coming - we're listening.
It's your magazine - we just work here.
- S

ScrLife
05-06-2003, 12:54 PM
Violator, to some extent I agree with you. However, I read this article and was fascinated by it. The writers (Dan Harris and Michael Dougherty) weren't drafted from the A-list. Dan has three credits on FilmTracker: X-Men II and two projects in development; and Michael is similar. So these are new break-through the system writers. In fact, they say:

"It would be our first job on a film that was already in development--not only were we making our debuts on a massive science fiction film, but it was also a sequel to a blockbuster movie . . ."

Their experience and what they had to accomplish is very germane to all screenwriting experiences: it's about balancing plot, character, action, etc.

The thing I'm most impressed by when I get my issues of Scr(i)pt is the fact that most of the articles about a particular feature film are written by the screenwriters; It's first person. And I always find something useful in the articles.

Shelly has to come up with a fine balance of articles in each issue to meet the needs of the varied readers and to maximize sales and bring in new readers and subscribers. Screenwriting magazines are not huge money makers; they're mostly labors of love. I write articles that pay 8 cents on the dollar for the work. I make less than minimum wage for the time and effort it takes to cover my four pages per issue, but I love having the opportinity to meet these successful people.

Having said all this, I too would like to see more nuts and bolts articles with examples. My solution to the examples problem (the page real-estate they would take up) would be to put the examples on the website and reference the link in the article. That way they don't have to either truncate the examples or have to cut articles to provide space for the examples.

Violator
05-06-2003, 01:17 PM
I should have clarified that I do buy scr(i)pt occasionally and I personally find it to be the best screenwriting magazine available. However, sequels and other writing assignments that (generally) get shuffled around to established pro's are usually the brainchild of a producer and don't pique my interest as much as an article about some schlub like me breaking in with his/her script.

Maybe scr(i)pt can clarify:
Who exactly do you see as your target audience for your magazine?

ScrLife
05-06-2003, 03:47 PM
Sorry, Violator, I didn't mean my comment to come off as judgingly abrasive; I was trying to be informative to anyone reading the posts.

My articles are oriented toward beginning to mid-level writers aspiring to write and produce in TV. Shelly (Scriptmag / Moderator) will have to address the magazine as a whole.

HConn
05-06-2003, 04:24 PM
Does scr(i)pt shy away from articles about age bias and location bias (ie, you're doomed if you're not in L.A.)? I would think those topics would hurt circulation.

wcmartell
05-06-2003, 06:27 PM
Interesting to compare this thread to the one Tao started.

Shelly has the real answer on the target audience, but I think Rich summed it up: it's screenwriters.

There aren't enough total screenwriters to only focus on one segment - probably most of the people who buy the magazine are *not* pros, but because the articles are written by pros they can't be shut out, either. The magazine can't exclude TV writing and just focus on features, either. It has to be inclusive. That best way to do that is through sections that appeal to subgroups.

Even though I write features, I loved Rich's article on 24 (I watch the show). It was interesting that the flaw that my (feature writer) friends always talk about the writers of the show see as "just the way they work" (that each episode isn't meticulously planned out to be part of the whole show arc - the show often seems like they're making it up as the go along instead of like an event in episode 3 will be important in episode 17).

My articles are all aimed at general screenwriters, and I hope that a new writer will learn something... and a pro can be reminded of some tool they may have forgotten or learn a technique they may be unfamiliar with. There isn't a writer in the world who knows everything (including me). Most of my articles come from things *I* just learned (or realized I needed to brush up on).

- Bill

Violator
05-06-2003, 06:30 PM
ScrLife, I didn't think you came across as abrasive.
(I just wanted to clarify so *I* didn't come across as abrasive!)

:lol

I could have just edited my post but that would mean that I would've had to enable cookies and login, and I'm too lazy to do that.

Violator
05-06-2003, 06:43 PM
That makes sense, Bill.

Now I'm curious. You say but because the articles are written by pros they can't be shut out, either.Would you say that you and all (or most) of the professionals you know are still constantly learning more about the craft? Are there some seasoned professionals who feel that they've hit the top and can't learn anymore? If so, what kinds of articles would those professionals be interested in reading? Articles pertaining to the backstage politics involved with assignments and whatnot?

scriptmag
05-07-2003, 11:21 AM
Dr. -
John Hill asks :
Define "over the top" screenwriting so I'll know what you're talking about.

I've never heard the term. (With high concept, etc., my feeling is, you can't go "over the top" -- so what does that term mean?)

Thanks -
Shelly

Dr Stiggers
05-07-2003, 01:00 PM
Over the top is AUSTIN POWERS, DEUCE BIGALOW.
These scripts were written by their performers.
If a spec writer pitched these as virgin specs,
readers and/or studio execs would ding it as
cheesy. I've seen it happen up close -- not
just to me. Producers jump to take spec scripts
into studios that are rejected because the
brass thought the writing was overcooked.
Once upon a time, they'd buy it and fix it then
they realized that process, more often than not,
didn't pan out.

There's a double standard in the spec marketplace.
Comedians can go wild and crazy with a story but
buyers frown on that same type of material
crossing the transom without firm elements
attached. The comedies that sell today are very
dry. Gross out humor is out and screwball, pratfall,
off the wall humor needs delicate treatment in
specs.

This is true for other genres...

The market laughs action specs in the vein of
XXX into the recycling bin ("what, a flying motor
bike!). Thrillers with wild-eyed maniacs are
yesterday's news. Horror with protagonists over
21 better be soberly executed or they'll wind
up on a heap of loose leaf.

Hollywood's ratio of make-believe to reality has
lessened. The allowance for contrivance has
whittled. Tolerance for whole cloth is gone.
Violators are labeled hacks (sorry Violator).

Today's spec must be clever yet read like the
events it portrays could (and perhaps did)
actually happen. The only noteworthy exception
is the ghost story that continues to thrive but
I recently read 60 percent of college graduates
believe in ghosts and apparently many of them
are working in Tinsel Town.

Here's the rub, what's good enough for production
drafts ain't good enough for a spec from a new
writer. What happened? Why isn't anybody
writing about this? What's the deal?

Rx

ScrLife
05-07-2003, 04:27 PM
Right on Dr. In my opinion, you nailed it.

Aspiring screenwriters need to understand this without becoming cynical and walking away. New screenwriters need to fight their way through the system to change it. I also believe the art form changes, and hopefully it will swing again to something more . . . useful.

wcmartell
05-07-2003, 05:34 PM
Do you think this may be due to imagination deficiencies in development?

I can understand the XXX action scenes being out of favor - I thought those scenes were over-the-top 80s junk. I tend to write stuff that's possible (I think practical stunts rather than CGI) because I want the script to read like something that could really happen - even if the subject matter involves time machines or clones. Maybe it's because I read too much Crichton at a young age - but my sci-fi stuff is researched and "possible". I read a stack of magazine articles on cloning before writing GRID RUNNERS so that my scientist could explain how it's done in lay terms. The more far-fetched, the more I need to show my work in order to make the audience believe it could happen. And I don't believe in coincidence in scripts - you get the one that starts the ball rolling, then everything else is cause and effect. But if I have to use ghosts instead of cloning or gene-splicing-gone-wrong or reincarnation - how am I supposed to come up with a high concept script that isn't, well, GHOST? That's just plain silly!

And I can understand how, under the guidance of Michael Bay or Rob Cohen that "realistic" action scene may be rewritten to include projectile cable cars or motor cycles that can outrun nuclear explosions. I've had directors change facts I took time to research into some weird idea they came up with on the spot. That might explain why those production drafts contain scenes that are too silly for a spec script.

But the comedy thing is another story. How can you write a funny script if you aren't allowed to put in the funny stuff? That doesn't make any sense. Comedy plays by different rules than other genres - you CAN have a bunch of coincidences in a comedy... often that's what makes it funny. Nothing is funnier than the angry mob that keeps popping up wherever the hero is in AFTER HOURS. I don't know how I would write DEUCE BIGELOW if I couldn't use physical humor in the script. The scenes with his pimp in the hot tub where the pimp is eating are funny because of what is done, not because of what is said. Eating the floating food is what makes those scenes.

If it's that people can't imagine that scene and laugh - it's time for us to act on the last words of Colonel Kurtz...

- Bill

OkeyDokey
05-09-2003, 11:48 AM
Dear scr(i)pt magazine:

Can you please hire Dr. Stiggers to write articles? I would buy the magazine to read the kind of articles he suggested.

Dr Stiggers
05-09-2003, 12:52 PM
Funny, I was just reading "Creative Screenwriting"
and their columnist, Michael Lent, quotes from
my "Hard Lesson From the Front Line" thread
(here in the Business Frequently Asked Questions
section). The author even used my large and small
case gimmick of BIG IDEA, small movie. Not that I
mind but ten cents a word is ten cents a word. I
could use the pocket change.

Rx

wcmartell
05-09-2003, 04:24 PM
Ten cents a word? That's dreaming! I get about 4 cents a word after a dozen years. That's not a complaint, by the way. I don't write for the money.

- Bill

Rembrandt Writes
05-11-2003, 10:17 AM
"Thrillers with wild-eyed maniacs are
yesterday's news. "

Doc, explain please. What thrillers work or are sought after?

Thanks
REMb

scriptmag
05-12-2003, 11:40 AM
Hi Guys -
We don't shy away from ageism.
Here is an article online that is a follow-up to a large piece we did in the magazine last year.
www.scriptmag.com/article...php?id=200 (http://www.scriptmag.com/articles/view_article.php?id=200)
- Shelly

roscoegino
05-13-2003, 07:46 PM
Hi Shelly

Never quite made sense to me why ageism would affect writers being hired as well as say, actors. Just because a writer is 40 doesn't mean she can't research the ways in which younger people think and behave. She could probably have more insight from an outter perspective. I've seen that happen on more than one occassion. I'm in my early thirties. Don't tell me I need adult diapers because they think I can't write for "Oliver Beene".

ros

therealBobDole
05-23-2003, 10:23 AM
Your point and "gimmick" on BI, sm was excellent and properly attributed, although maybe I should have hunted down your secret identity. However, the concept is a commonly shared one among exec and producer circles. I heard Frederick Levy talk about the same thing at length a while back, but you crystallized it better. So DoneDeal got the reference.

Dr Stiggers
11-01-2003, 10:29 AM
... Ray Morton for the article on conventions and cliches. It is enlightening and just
what I asked for.

...Shelly for the new format and the Buzz, and Rita Cook's New Voices page (suggestion:
how about a log line reference along with the title of each script. I'd also like to know who
bought each spec).

... John Hill for another excellent column. Pat the dog, everybody.

... Robert Gosnell for the deft 10 Rules for the Pitch Room. This area of the biz is one of
the least written about. Go ahead and write the definitive book on it Robert, no one else is.

... David Cohen's interviews are extremely more effective than the Writers on Writing
articles.

... Bill Martell delivers, as always, on one of the more viable spec script genres, horror.
...Now, about my other suggestions...

Rx

GroundskeeperWully
11-03-2003, 03:45 PM
They are good suggestions Dr Stiggers. Perhaps you should consider offering them your services.

I suppose it's a challenge to decide what to write about. They can only cover so many ideas over the 6 bi-monthly issues.

akaRichie
02-04-2004, 07:36 AM
.