The Miserable State of Network Sitcoms

[billythrilly7]

story.news.yahoo.com/news...v/nielsens (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=494&ncid=762&e=4&u=/ap/20050426/ap_en_tv/nielsens)

[kitnerboy]

This one is a tough call.

I'm tempted to say that tv sitcoms are really due for a big comeback, for a lot of reasons. There are more stand-up comics working today than at any time since the late 80's, and most of them are looking for developement deals.

The revenue being generated by dvd sales is astronomical, and, as popular as reality shows are, I can't see anyone shelling out 39.99 for Fear Factor Season 3.

However, I think any new ground will be broken on premium cable (and Comedy Central). I think the networks have really gone down a bad road with the whole morality thing, and they just can't compete with HBO, who are currently developing a new show with (my favorite comic) Jim Norton.

[Mike Samonek]

You like that bald zilch?








:lol I don't think Norton's developing a show, he's just taping a half hour of comedy.

[kitnerboy]

I can't defend him. He is a meaty-breasted nothing.

Actually, he just taped the stand-up special last night. But he's also shooting a series pilot for them.

Plus, he's reading one of my scripts.

So, he's got that going for him.

[Mike Samonek]

Good for him, I didn't know about the pilot. I could picture a "Curb your enthusiasm" style show with Norton and his depraved pals and his ahem... proclivities going over gangbusters.

Actually, I don't know if America's ready for that.

Good luck, I hope that awful, awful man digs your script. :lol

[Writer1]

Sitcoms face a tougher battle these days. With the huge numbers of channels and program alternatives, viewers don't have the patience to wait for characters to develop and are instead looking for quicker(instant) gratification.

[Furious Anjel]

Sitcoms face a tougher battle these days. With the huge numbers of channels and program alternatives, viewers don't have the patience to wait for characters to develop and are instead looking for quicker(instant) gratification.

People were saying the same thing about serialized dramas until "Lost" and "Desperate Housewives" came on the scene.

[Writer1]

I hear what you're saying, Anjel. LOST and DH both started with dramatic situations that appeal instantly to viewers. A plane crashes or a woman committs suicide are things we'd likely also see in a movie of the week. The drama gave us time to get to know the characters. In most good comedies, the comedy arises from the characters, our knowledge of the characters, and seeing them in situations that are uncomfortable for them.

I'm probably not explaining exactly what I mean. But I do suspect that classic comedies like CHEERS and ALL IN THE FAMILY would be much harder to pull off these days because networks are more reluctant to wait for an audience to grow.

[velysai]

I find I watch way more hour-long shows than half-hour sitcoms. And I watch a loooooooot of tv (and movies).

Most of the sitcoms are poorly acted. Or way-over-the-top acted. Comedy doesn't need to be like, "Hey, look, I'm saying something funny now. Laugh!" This over-acting ruins otherwise decent dialogue (not great, but decent). Sometimes delivery is everything.

On a side note, I'm thrilled that "House" was counted in the top 10. The sarcasm on that show is downright brilliant. Love it! :D

[writerly]

someone posted link to NYT Magz article about TV being smarter now, fex, 24 has multiple storylines, aud want more, and are more savvy. (example given of 'ER' dialog where it sounds just like a triage situation and they don't talk down to the aud) so, sitcoms are dead. i personally feel stupid laughing at some 3 camera set-up... they're due for a comeback but how? i don't know.
keep this in mind if you get the chance to pitch. they're dead, dead, dead.

[kitnerboy]

This is an interesting topic, worthy of further discussion.

There has been a long and interesting evolution of the half hour comedy format since the days of MASH and All In the Family, where earnest drama was mixed nicely with genuine laughs, to the heyday of shows like One Day At A Time and Cheers, where the focus was on jokes with the occasional Very Special Episode.

Gone are the days of Gary Marshall, James L Brooks and Norman Lear, who would create entire network schedules with spinoffs and crossover programs.

In 1982, NBC only had 2 sitcoms on their schedule (Different Strokes and Facts Of Life). People said sitcoms were dead. Then came Bill Cosby, Cheers and a fifteen year ratings domination.

One thing is for certain. The 3 camera, 22 minute setup/punchline,laughtrack, strung on a plot about a misunderstanding is probably gone.

Comics today are different than Bill Cosby, Bob Newhart and Jerry Seinfeld.

David Chappelle and David Cross both prefer improv and sketch comedy (plus they are both writing and trying to sell feature specs, not sitcom pilots that may or may not see the light of day).

The biggest movie stars in comedy today (Will Ferrell, Jim Carrey and Ben Stiller) all started in sketch comedy too.

So, audiences ARE smarter, as evidenced by the popularity of shows like Curb Your Enthusiasm and Arrested Developement.

There have been interesting attempts at something different over the years, anti-sitcoms such as Get A Life and Its Garry Shandling's Show, but they didn't exactly set the ratings world on fire. But dvd's and devices like Tivo are proving what many people have long suspected: That Neilson ratings don't really reflect what people are watching.

It seems like there are going to be amazing oppourtunities out their for comedy writers who can anticipate what the next step in the evolution of the format is.

[velysai]

I hate laugh tracks. They have to go. How many sitcoms are actually filmed in front of a live audience?

I don't need to be cued when to laugh, thank you!

I think sitcoms like "Malcolm in the Middle" and "Scrubs" that ditch the laugh track are far superior to the crap they're putting out now, like "Life on a Stick".

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On a side note, I'm watching the Presidential News Conference, and Bush has got to be the worst public speaker ever! It's amazing how he can talk in circles for such lengths of time without answering the freaking question he was asked! :rollin

Oh, wait, that makes me :( .

[writerly]

How many sitcoms are actually filmed in front of a live audience?

all of them, if they're the old traditional, 3 camera. (Friends, 2 & Half Men, Raymond, Seinfeld, etc.)
Malcolm (good show) et al are filmed.

[roscoegino]

One thing is for certain. The 3 camera, 22 minute setup/punchline,laughtrack, strung on a plot about a misunderstanding is probably gone.

Let's us all hope so. The future is pretty dim for that kind of sitcom. The onslaught of commercial time has really hurt sitcoms in recent years. Characters are given little time to develop and when they do they are either angry, dumb or horny. The hackneyed back and forth banter is as mind numbing as the studio employee laugh track that follows. There's more punchline than setup, and the stories are tissue paper thin. Sitcoms don't have that element of poignancy anymore. Stuff like that made guys like James L. Brooks legends.

[OrpheusMc]

"In 1982, NBC only had 2 sitcoms on their schedule (Different Strokes and Facts Of Life). People said sitcoms were dead. Then came Bill Cosby, Cheers and a fifteen year ratings domination."

This is a very hope-inspiring reminder for me.

Cheers indeed!

[kitnerboy]

You're welcome. Now all you have to do is reinvent a genre.

Things were so much simpler in the 1960's, when all you had to do was smoke some spliffs and pitch a show about a Jeannie in a bottle or a talking horse...

[Johnny Stacatto]

yeah, you know, the sitcom, any kind of sitcom, single camera or live audience, three camera (which is really now more like five cameras) will make the comeback when the really talented and funny actors want easier schedules than feature films allow, like when they want to spend more time with their kids. and when the next bunch of talented writers who are willing to put up with too much network interference start making the shows. or when the networks figure out that letting the talented people handle the creative stuff is a good idea.

in other words, when there is money to be made again, sitcoms will be back.

i mean, how many more "Law & Order"'s can they make?? i think the next one is going to be "Law & Order: CSI".

[whitenavel]

Bring back Diff'rent Strokes and Facts of Life. It's not like the cast members from those shows are doing anything now.

[Johnny Stacatto]

yeah, except, you know, some of them are dead.

[Kelsey]

The only sitcom I watch these days is That 70s Show - syndicated episodes, new weekly episodes and I fall asleep to it every night (yay for TV on DVDs!) Maybe it's just because I can relate to them, but I love the characters, the actors (two of the stars on the show are on my favorites list, and Danny Masterson is my celeb crush;) ), the dialogue, I'm obsessed with the 70s scene...on and on...

I've watched a few new sitcoms this year, but haven't really found any I will make an effort to dedicate myself to. Well, Desperate Housewives, but that's it. And Grey's Anatomy is sometimes funny, but I know what you meant.

[A Pathetic Writer]

That 70s show is the most formulaic show to ever hit tv. That said, it's a winning formula. Enjoyable in small doses, but a marathon showing reveals quite quickly how alike every single episode is.

[whitenavel]

yeah, except, you know, some of them are dead.


I think Dana Plato is the only major character that is dead. And the woman who played Adelaide the maid.

[roscoegino]

Damn, you know your stuff, white.

[whitenavel]

I have tons of useless information in my head.

[SidFarkas]

The networks should just play re-runs of old sitcoms.

[A Pathetic Writer]

Only if M*A*S*H is included in the mix.

[billythrilly7]

The networks should just play re-runs of old sitcoms

Good thinking, Farkas.

[Pencey]

Characters are given little time to develop and when they do they are either angry, dumb or horny. The hackneyed back and forth banter is as mind numbing as the studio employee laugh track that follows. There's more punchline than setup, and the stories are tissue paper thin. Sitcoms don't have that element of poignancy anymore. Stuff like that made guys like James L. Brooks legends.

I agree with everything you said, especially about Brooks and his excellent writing.

I'm sitting here trying to explain what it was that made his show, Taxi, so special and I just can't put it into words. It seems like so many things. One of those is what you mentioned Roscoe; the episodes had a "poignancy" to them that just isn't seen anymore on sitcoms.

For example: Jim Ignatowski, a 60's transplant eternally stoned to the point where he's barely capable of being a cab driver. A lot of humor comes from this but his character is dimensionalized so we see how his humanity affects the other characters. He often saw things in his own, unique way and he changed how the other cab drivers saw him, other than just the stoned cabby they usually took pity on.

In one episode, he buys the racehorse that won him $10,000 at the track. And what does he do with it? He takes it home and makes it a pet so they don't send it to the glue factory. But he's not smart enough to realize that it's dying and has been all along...

And then most of the comedy and the above "poignancy" of that episode comes from when the cast is sitting in Jim's apartment and they're waiting for the horse to "wake up from its nap."

You don't see this kind of writing today. I'm not a beleiver in that writers have been trained to write different to appeal to a new audience. I believe that we just don't have any James Brooks around today to write stuff this good.

[Kelsey]

Formula or not, That 70s Show is funny. Like you said, it's a formula that works. Which is better than most crap they have on TV now.

Anyone know if Quintuplets is coming back?

[kintnerboy]

There was an article in today's NY Times about a comic writer from NY who moved into a Century Village type retirement home for six months to do research for a book, and sold the concept as a sitcom pilot for NBC.

Sounds like a good premise. The episodes of Seinfeld where he visited his parents were always some of the funniest, and old people are always funny.

[kintnerboy]

I realise that probably no one cares about this but me, but HBO has picked up the comedy series featuring Jim Norton, ordering 12 episodes which begin filming in July.

[Pencey]

Nobody has anything more to say on Taxi or network sitcoms of past vs. those of today?!

Are we only capable of discussing lame reality shows and cookie cutter police dramas in this forum?

[coconutp]

that show that was mentioned about the retirement home is called Early Bird I believe. I think it's a great concept. I also think it's based on a book of the same title written by the former head writer for Letterman.

[kintnerboy]

When NBC, ABC, and CBS unveiled their new fall schedules last week, there were 13 new half hour comedies between them. That's pretty good, I think.



Edited to add: I think it's good that the major networks have not given up on sitcoms.....however I don't hold out hope that many of them will be any good, but it's encouraging.

[kintnerboy]

Fox has announced their fall lineup:

New sitcoms: 12

New reality shows: 0



Is it miserable? Or is it so great that your whole world just came crashing down around you?




ps- from Variety, sorry no links