PDA

View Full Version : Entourage vs. Californication


Rantanplan
09-14-2014, 08:44 PM
I'm curious, if there are peeps on this board who are actually in a position to know: which is the more accurate representation of Hollywood, if any?

I realize this is cable and they have no choice but to push the envelope, but is every single woman in HW really ready to f*** the next big shot on a moment's notice? Do agents really get whores and blow for their clients? Do people in a *professional* setting really use that kind of language?

I love both shows, one from the star-rep point of view, the other from the writer-rep point of view.

But I mean, come on, right?

Or... maybe not.

ricther
09-14-2014, 10:13 PM
I love both shows too, though I'm not sure how accurate they are in depicting Hollywood. But women (or rather h*** because some women actually have values) all over are pretty willing to f*** the next big shot or any guy with a nice car and flashy watch.

Ronaldinho
09-19-2014, 04:19 PM
I don't think either of them has much to do with reality.

I realize this is cable and they have no choice but to push the envelope, but is every single woman in HW really ready to f*** the next big shot on a moment's notice?

Of course not. But it is, I think, a fairly promiscuous city, simply because of the large number of 20-somethings who move here.

I had a friend who was occasionally running around with DiCaprio's crew, and there were a ton of women throwing themselves at DiCaprio. But you have to figure he's one of the most attractive men on the planet, so it's not that surprising.

Attractive, successful people in Hollywood have a lot of options because there are a lot of attractive single people in Los Angeles. I tend to think about it as being sort of like college, except with more money, where successful actors are the popular kids. The most popular kid in school doesn't have a hard time finding women.

But Entourage and Californication are largely male fantasy writ large. I don't even particularly think that they're trying to hide that's what they are.

Rantanplan
09-19-2014, 09:46 PM
But you have to figure he's one of the most attractive men on the planet, so it's not that surprising.

Not really :) But he's incredibly rich and a major movie star.

Re. the two shows, yes they're male fantasies on some level, but the reason they work, IMO, is that they have a strong emotional core that grounds the story. In Entourage it's about friendship, and in Californication it's about Hank's enduring love for his soulmate and daughter. Obviously the sex and the depravity and the glamor of HW help sell the shows, but without that strong emotional core, it would just be trash.

Deion22
09-21-2014, 12:10 PM
Entourage is a lot closer to reality then people think. Deals get f*cked up all the time. Execs hold grudges. Foul language is rampant in professional meetings. Now if you're asking about the sex part, sure it's over the top. But LA is a promiscuous city.

The business side of Entourage is very realistic.

I love Californication, but I think that show is more of a fantasy. But it's still one of my favorites shows ever.

There's a lot of business scenarios in Entourage I've seen happen or heard happening. Entourage definitely is cribbing from a lot of true life stories with the major plots in the series dealing with Hollywood.

Ronaldinho
09-21-2014, 03:10 PM
Not really :) But he's incredibly rich and a major movie star.

To-may-to, to-mah-to.

Attractiveness is not entirely about physical appearance. It's not exclusively about that to men, and we're the ones who are generally considered to prioritize it, so it's certainly not the only thing to women.

When you consider all the things that women generally consider attractive as a total package, I stand by my statement.

JoeBanks
09-22-2014, 12:28 AM
the blind items at Crazy Days and Nights make those shows seem tame

http://www.crazydaysandnights.net/

Rantanplan
09-22-2014, 04:01 PM
When you consider all the things that women generally consider attractive as a total package, I stand by my statement.

Well duh, of course he's a great catch :) I just meant that I don't think he ever had that major sex symbol status of some of the other mega A listers.

Speaking of which, there's an interview somewhere with Clooney and Pitt talking about how Matt Damon was really lobbying hard to get the Sexiest Man Alive title. It's hilarious.

cshel
09-23-2014, 11:39 AM
Well duh, of course he's a great catch :) I just meant that I don't think he ever had that major sex symbol status of some of the other mega A listers.

I agree with Rantan about DiCaprio. He's a good actor, but I've never thought he was very attractive. He just happened to luck into that uber-romantic role in Titanic that made him a major tween heartthrob star. Same with Robert Pattinson and that other kid in Twilight. And that kid from A Fault in Our Stars. Put any average looking young actor in those kind of teen or YA romantic parts and they instantly become major tween heartthrobs. But adult women usually don't find them that attractive, because they're not really. But if they're good actors, like Leo, they continue to have very successful careers. Just my opinion, obviously.

odocoileus
09-23-2014, 01:34 PM
the blind items at Crazy Days and Nights make those shows seem tame

http://www.crazydaysandnights.net/

Welcome to the real Hollywood! :devil:

I recommend Full Service, by Scotty Bowers. Quite the eye-opener.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Service:_My_Adventures_in_Hollywood_and_the_S ecret_Sex_Lives_of_the_Stars

Ronaldinho
09-23-2014, 01:54 PM
Well duh, of course he's a great catch :) I just meant that I don't think he ever had that major sex symbol status of some of the other mega A listers.

Uh, DiCaprio is basically known for constantly dating supermodels. Seriously, of all the A-listers, he's the one with the biggest reputation for chasing tail that I can think of. He's the one who is often out on the Sunset strip clubbing.

Even Clooney, at the height of his Clooneyness, was seen as something of a serial monogamist. I agree that DiCaprio doesn't have that kind of "sexiest man alive" cred but as far as guys who are out there living the "Entourage" lifestyle, he's pretty much the #1 example.

Although I'm not exactly sure why we're discussing this.

cshel
09-23-2014, 03:24 PM
Uh, DiCaprio is basically known for constantly dating supermodels. Seriously, of all the A-listers, he's the one with the biggest reputation for chasing tail that I can think of. He's the one who is often out on the Sunset strip clubbing.

Even Clooney, at the height of his Clooneyness, was seen as something of a serial monogamist. I agree that DiCaprio doesn't have that kind of "sexiest man alive" cred but as far as guys who are out there living the "Entourage" lifestyle, he's pretty much the #1 example.

Although I'm not exactly sure why we're discussing this.

Then, I guess by that standard, Mick Jagger is the most handsome man on the planet. :eek: :p

UpandComing
09-23-2014, 04:36 PM
Like, OMG you guys, Leo's totes like, the bees' knees...

Rantanplan
09-23-2014, 09:49 PM
Uh, DiCaprio is basically known for constantly dating supermodels. Seriously, of all the A-listers, he's the one with the biggest reputation for chasing tail that I can think of. He's the one who is often out on the Sunset strip clubbing.

Even Clooney, at the height of his Clooneyness, was seen as something of a serial monogamist. I agree that DiCaprio doesn't have that kind of "sexiest man alive" cred but as far as guys who are out there living the "Entourage" lifestyle, he's pretty much the #1 example.

Although I'm not exactly sure why we're discussing this.

Pretty vapid young things having sex with guys who are loaded... oh... OKAY :) Major Newsflash.

UnequalProductions
09-24-2014, 11:49 AM
I hadn't watched Californication since the second season. Then I heard some interesting things about the most recent season that made me want to take a peek.

There were some scenes set in a TV show writing room that felt like some of the worst television I'd ever seen. I mean, this show is written in a writers' room. How could it be so bizarrely awful in its depiction?

Or maybe writers' rooms are just filled with 8 idiots and 1 person who understands actual story. I'm sure that's accurate for more than a few shows.

ctp
09-24-2014, 04:17 PM
I just binge watched Californication - S7 was uncharacteristically awful.

UnequalProductions
09-25-2014, 09:52 AM
I just binge watched Californication - S7 was uncharacteristically awful.

Would you recommend 3-6?

Rantanplan
09-25-2014, 06:21 PM
Would you recommend 3-6?

Season 3 is hilarious with some great guest stars including Kathleen Turner and Rick Springfield as himself.

Rantanplan
09-25-2014, 07:50 PM
I think with CALIFORNICATION, it's only natural that at some point it would implode and get worse. Hank can only go on for so long fVcking things up with the woman and daughter he loves. At some point, he needs to grow up and man up. He becomes less and less attractive as a character if he doesn't, by always repeating the same mistakes and never learning a single thing. It's actually an insult to his character's intelligence.

But the problem is that we like him like that. THAT is the show.

One of the many brilliant aspects of SEINFELD is that over 8 seasons, nobody grew. Nobody coupled up or babied up or matured emotionally in any way, they remained the same self-centered characters that they always were as they grew into middle-age. In fact, they actually grew into worse characters --more callous and self-involved and neurotic and cynical than when they started out. Thank goodness. It totally went against the grain that way.

But with CALIFORNICATION, since there IS that deep emotional core that grounds the show, that genuine heart-felt drama in the midst of all the over-the-top absurd comedy, that real love and all those real feelings, it becomes a turn-off if the character doesn't grow.

So I think basically the show wrote itself into a corner. It had nowhere to go by its own definition.

Deion22
09-25-2014, 07:52 PM
Californication is one of the greatest shows for the first 5 seasons. Love Hank Moody.

Rantanplan
09-25-2014, 08:23 PM
Californication is one of the greatest shows for the first 5 seasons. Love Hank Moody.

See above. I think by its own nature it couldn't keep up with its own greatness.

And also, some of the seasons were defined by their guest stars.

Lou Ashby: AWESOME. Hated to see him go. Great freaking character. I had a major crush.

SAMURAI: Meh. The tone felt right and all, but there is just not that attraction.

The guest stars I mentioned above: hilarious. Plus Rob Lowe, weird as fVck and totally against type.

The whole university season: great. His deanness, and all that? Priceless.
And Richard Bates: holy sh!t what a great guest character. His energy and enthusiasm for life and words and pansexual inclinations is so invigorating and endearing and downright weird.

ATTICUS FETCH definitely had his moments. "Those little proletarian dreams." A$$hole rock star but had a way with words.

Even when the show's bad, it's still better than many.

But yeah, where could it possibly go, right?

ctp
09-28-2014, 07:42 PM
Would you recommend 3-6?

It's not Mad Men or HIMYM but they're entertaining, sure. I watched them...

ricther
09-29-2014, 02:10 AM
I think with CALIFORNICATION, it's only natural that at some point it would implode and get worse. Hank can only go on for so long fVcking things up with the woman and daughter he loves. At some point, he needs to grow up and man up. He becomes less and less attractive as a character if he doesn't, by always repeating the same mistakes and never learning a single thing. It's actually an insult to his character's intelligence.

But the problem is that we like him like that. THAT is the show.

I'm on Season 4 right now, been binge watching on Netflix, but I totally agree. Although I have to say that Karen should have had his back and gave him a pass with the whole Mia thing. The guy had no idea that she was 16. He was the one that was done wrong in that whole crazy situation.

And speaking of guest stars, I LOVE Carla Gugino. She was great and so HOT! I wish they would bring back Lou Ashby's lost love too :)

I must say that I am intrigued by Tom Kapino's next TV venture. In case you guys haven't heard, it's a drama based off the DC Comic "Lucifer". Based on a character modeled after David Bowie himself, the comic centers on Lucifer who, bored and unhappy as the Lord of Hell, resigns his throne and abandons his kingdom for the gorgeous, shimmering insanity of Los Angeles, where he opens an exclusive piano bar called Lux.

megablahblah
02-07-2015, 02:10 AM
I've seen a lot of non-rich, non-famous guys that are simply confident, decently good looking, and have a decent amount of charisma, have girls throw themselves at them on a Monday night in a club/bar in L.A.

Hell, I've had that happen to me a number of times, and I'm on the lower end of all of those qualities.

So to expect that a good looking guy like Hank Moody, who is a "bad boy," has some fame and notoriety, has some money and a Porsche, and a cool place to live (not to mention the drug and alcohol/party culture he hangs around), could have girls throw themselves at him on a regular basis is not a big stretch.

At worst, it's a compressed timeline, and the 15 or 20 times it happened over a decade or two to a particular writer happens in only 5 years in the show.

nic.h
02-07-2015, 12:56 PM
I love both shows too, though I'm not sure how accurate they are in depicting Hollywood. But women (or rather h*** because some women actually have values) all over are pretty willing to f*** the next big shot or any guy with a nice car and flashy watch.

Most sexist and puritanical post in ages. FTW. :rolleyes:

nic.h
02-07-2015, 12:58 PM
But Entourage and Californication are largely male fantasy writ large. I don't even particularly think that they're trying to hide that's what they are.

Yep.

nic.h
02-07-2015, 01:07 PM
Not really :) But he's incredibly rich and a major movie star.

Re. the two shows, yes they're male fantasies on some level, but the reason they work, IMO, is that they have a strong emotional core that grounds the story. In Entourage it's about friendship, and in Californication it's about Hank's enduring love for his soulmate and daughter. Obviously the sex and the depravity and the glamor of HW help sell the shows, but without that strong emotional core, it would just be trash.

I agree. I never got into Entourage, though have managed to watch a lot of episodes. Just never in order. (I don't think that mattered - I never liked Vince, and his mates were not evolved enough to interest me, so I never connected with the characters.) I watched the first 3 seasons of Californication, and really loved it. Hank's endless success with women got old, but as Rantan says, his connection with his "wife" and kid kept him whole for me. I dropped out when they started moving the time slot around, but I'd probably dive into Season 4 if I could binge it.

The Rick Springfield stuff was delicious. (That ringtone!)

Rantanplan
02-07-2015, 08:30 PM
I agree. I never got into Entourage, though have managed to watch a lot of episodes. Just never in order. (I don't think that mattered - I never liked Vince, and his mates were not evolved enough to interest me, so I never connected with the characters.) I watched the first 3 seasons of Californication, and really loved it. Hank's endless success with women got old, but as Rantan says, his connection with his "wife" and kid kept him whole for me. I dropped out when they started moving the time slot around, but I'd probably dive into Season 4 if I could binge it.

The Rick Springfield stuff was delicious. (That ringtone!)


It's on Netlix now, don't know about Aussie NF, but in the US., yeah. Major score.

And unfortunately, Nich, per your reaction up-thread, yeah, probably a major reality. You're young and hot and driven, yeah, you're probably gonna use your best "assets" to get ahead in one of the most competitive and potentially lucrative fields on the planet. Sadly for all those young women (AND men), the producer's couch does not = fame and fortune.

nic.h
02-08-2015, 02:33 AM
I don't doubt it, but it would have been interesting to see more women who didn't act like this. They exist, they're apparently the exception, so that makes them more interesting to me. Not to mention more blokes in the series who didn't take up the offer.

People who surprise and act out of the norm, generally, appeal to me more. Once they established the pattern, the interesting stuff would have been found in those who broke the mould. IMHO.

Though both shows seemed to do fine without my advice, so. ;)

Rantanplan
02-08-2015, 05:44 AM
I don't doubt it, but it would have been interesting to see more women who didn't act like this. They exist, they're apparently the exception, so that makes them more interesting to me. Not to mention more blokes in the series who didn't take up the offer.

People who surprise and act out of the norm, generally, appeal to me more. Once they established the pattern, the interesting stuff would have been found in those who broke the mould. IMHO.

Though both shows seemed to do fine without my advice, so. ;)

I agree, and the one thing I didn't like about Californication is the way women were always pursuing Hank and throwing themselves at him but rarely the reverse. They always made the move, and he gladly put out for them, but in the entire series, I'm trying to think of how many times he was the pursuer, and I can't think of very many. Maybe one or two, and they were smart women at the top of their game professionally (1-2 lawyers and an academic), so good for him, but still. Maybe this was deliberate for the purpose of the arc of the series, i.e. the only woman he every truly loved and actively pursued was Karen, but it does reinforce the whole male fantasy aspectódude walks into a room minding his own business, and boom, gorgeous flesh is thrown at him and what's a poor guy to do.

Deion22
02-08-2015, 03:41 PM
Entourage and Californication both are incredible shows in my opinion.

Entourage is pursuit of the dream, with your bros in tow. Immediately identifiable in my opinion. It really gave an accurate depiction of the movie industry. Seriously there were so many moments in Entourage where similar things (mostly bad things) happened to me and my friends in the biz.

But the guys always stuck together. That's what emotionally drove Entourage. Yes wild **** happened. But the bromance was always front and center. At least for me it was.

Californication has a special place in my greatest hits of TV. Hank Moody is one of the greatest characters to grace the TV screen. His failures, wit, cynical personality, love for his family, and writing connected with me on a personal level.

LA is a crazy place, that can drive you crazy. I think Entourage and Californication depicted LA and the entertainment business in realistic and adult ways like no shows have in a long time. Both shows had their share of flaws, but both are superior to most TV programming. In my humble opinion.


Might need to do a rewatch of both series very soon.

Rantanplan
02-08-2015, 09:29 PM
Entourage and Californication both are incredible shows in my opinion.

Entourage is pursuit of the dream, with your bros in tow. Immediately identifiable in my opinion. It really gave an accurate depiction of the movie industry. Seriously there were so many moments in Entourage where similar things (mostly bad things) happened to me and my friends in the biz.

But the guys always stuck together. That's what emotionally drove Entourage. Yes wild **** happened. But the bromance was always front and center. At least for me it was.

Californication has a special place in my greatest hits of TV. Hank Moody is one of the greatest characters to grace the TV screen. His failures, wit, cynical personality, love for his family, and writing connected with me on a personal level.

LA is a crazy place, that can drive you crazy. I think Entourage and Californication depicted LA and the entertainment business in realistic and adult ways like no shows have in a long time. Both shows had their share of flaws, but both are superior to most TV programming. In my humble opinion.


Might need to do a rewatch of both series very soon.

I agree, and as I said earlier in the thread, despite all the crazy sh!t, both shows had a strong emotional core that grounded them: one was about bros, the other about family. Without that, the characters would have never been that attractive.

And with California, I love the language. It's nice to see a writer talk like a writer. And the non-writer characters also had great, colorful, individual, linguistic voices. A real accomplishment, that show, when it comes to just pure language.

ihavebiglips
02-08-2015, 09:49 PM
Are you girls crazy? I'm a straight dude and I would have f*cked Leo in the Titanic days!

nic.h
02-08-2015, 10:19 PM
I agree, and as I said earlier in the thread, despite all the crazy sh!t, both shows had a strong emotional core that grounded them: one was about bros, the other about family. Without that, the characters would have never been that attractive.

And with California, I love the language. It's nice to see a writer talk like a writer. And the non-writer characters also had great, colorful, individual, linguistic voices. A real accomplishment, that show, when it comes to just pure language.

Yep.

nic.h
02-08-2015, 10:20 PM
Are you girls crazy? I'm a straight dude and I would have f*cked Leo in the Titanic days!

He is/was bland and forgettable. Plus I hated Titanic, but anyway, I never got the Leo thing. A lot of women didn't get the Leo thing.

ihavebiglips
02-08-2015, 10:27 PM
He is/was bland and forgettable. Plus I hated Titanic, but anyway, I never got the Leo thing. A lot of women didn't get the Leo thing.

But... that HAIR.

Rantanplan
02-08-2015, 11:11 PM
But... that HAIR.

Actually, his passion and hunger for life in T was kind of appealing. He wasn't, you know, playing video games all day. IMO Cameron really has a knack for tapping into primal, universal longings such as the quest for adventure, and Leo did embody that in T, and it's attractive.

nic.h
02-08-2015, 11:25 PM
It obviously resonated with the audience, but I didn't believe him at all. It felt contrived and insincere. Plus, he looked about 12 which was ew. (I was in my 20s then, so wasn't showing my age.)

But he's never done it for me in any role - ever. So it's probably just one of those taste things that simply can't be explained.

(Otherwise, I'm a walking cliche, so it's kind of interesting. Pitt, Clooney, Damon... Any time, anywhere. But Leo - not even a bit. Though, now that I think about it, I never got the Tom Cruise bug either. Way before the Katie Holmes stuff I thought he was creepy.)

nic.h
02-08-2015, 11:26 PM
But I like Leo as an actor now. Don't get me wrong. He's just not sexy.

And Californication is now on my Quickflix list, as we speak. :-)

ricther
02-12-2015, 01:30 AM
Entourage is pursuit of the dream, with your bros in tow.

This is why I loved and connected with that show. I dream of being a professional screenwriter/producer. My younger brother has dreams of being an actor(he also wants me to manage him). I have a cousin that dreams of being a music artist(who also wants me to manage him lol), and his brother also wants to pursue acting. The four of us are very close, since we were babies, and I always picture the four of us as the "entourage".

Rantanplan
04-13-2016, 09:55 PM
I'm reviving an old thread because I've been watching some of these shows again lately, and my question is:

Are there any shows at the moment that are about Hollywood and that have a similarly attractive emotional core / characters?

I feel that it's a genre that will never totally go out of style. Personally I love movies about movies, fictional shows about writers and actors and directors, etc. But I don't keep up with TV much, so is there anything I should know about that is now on Netflix or Amazon? I feel like I need a fix!

redturtle
04-13-2016, 10:54 PM
Not "new" or on Netflix but:

Episodes (Showtime)
The Comeback (HBO)
Doll & Em (HBO)
Ballers (HBO)
Unscripted (??? with Bryan Greenberg)
UnReal (Lifetime)

Rantanplan
04-14-2016, 07:42 AM
Not "new" or on Netflix but:

Episodes (Showtime)
The Comeback (HBO)
Doll & Em (HBO)
Ballers (HBO)
Unscripted (??? with Bryan Greenberg)
UnReal (Lifetime)

Thanks!

redturtle
04-14-2016, 12:44 PM
Thanks!

Oh, one more:

EXTRAS (with Ricky Gervais - BBC)

Some of the funniest cameos, with Sir Ian McKellan, Patrick Stewart, and Kate Winslet (she plays a version of herself in this series, and says something so over the top funny about how to win an Oscar... and then years later wins an Oscar more or less in the way she described/lampooned in the series).

nativeson
04-14-2016, 01:41 PM
That looks cool :bounce:

Rantanplan
04-14-2016, 01:48 PM
Oh, one more:

EXTRAS (with Ricky Gervais - BBC)

Some of the funniest cameos, with Sir Ian McKellan, Patrick Stewart, and Kate Winslet (she plays a version of herself in this series, and says something so over the top funny about how to win an Oscar... and then years later wins an Oscar more or less in the way she described/lampooned in the series).

I've seen a few eps of EXTRAS, it's hilarious. The one with Orlando Bloom is my fave.

@ Nativeson: ENTOURAGE was inspired by producer Marc Whalberg's experience and entourage of homies, so yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of truth to it. And honestly, sometimes I do get disgusted. I don't know what's worse, how the big agents behave or what the spoiled brat movie stars expect their agents to do for them. Get me floor seats to the Lakers! Get me that hottie's number! Get me my drugs! Get me those shoes, that car, that house! I was going to say, how could anyone put up with such ass***les, but I guess that for 10% of their 20-million-dollar paychecks, you'll put up with just about anything.

redturtle
04-14-2016, 02:01 PM
Entourage is Sex And the City for men.

It's taking a grain of emotional truth (friends forever coming of age in the big city) and decorating it with a lot of aspirational bling.

That's what makes it fun to watch.

The largesse and zaniness does happen (at least from what I've seen) but the show gives the impression that it happens every day - which isn't true. Everyday life is pretty boring - go to set. Come home. Sleep. Day off, take phone calls with agents/reps, sign paperwork, go to meetings.

What makes Entourage somewhat less like reality strangely enough is the tight knit crew of bros/friends. It's usually the opposite - quite lonely and more isolating than you'd think because if you're super busy, constantly on set, or you're busy agent, there's not a lot of time to hang with friends (or to develop real friendships in the first place).

A more accurate version of Entourage would be: just Vince. Can't relate to his childhood friends. Schedule is super busy, prepping for roles (with script sides, learning lines/scenes), being on set, press junkets, etc. But on his free time at home or in hotel rooms on the road - alone.

It's not just agents, stars, etc but those of us in LA - we are really good at making our lives seem far cooler than they really are :)

Rantanplan
04-14-2016, 05:57 PM
"Entourage is Sex And the City for men."

Yeah, it's like lifestyle porn slash friendship forever porn. You envy the life they live and the close support system.

Re. Vince not having anything in common with high school buddies in "real life," I agree, and I think the only reason reason it works in this fiction is that they never stopped hanging out in the first place; they're going through the whole thing together at the same time and discovering a new world and lifestyle together.

Rantanplan
04-14-2016, 08:33 PM
It's not just agents, stars, etc but those of us in LA - we are really good at making our lives seem far cooler than they really are :)

Right. So where that does leave you? The artifice must get exhausting after a while.

redturtle
04-14-2016, 09:01 PM
Right. So where that does leave you? The artifice must get exhausting after a while.

A shell of my former soulless self.

Rantanplan
04-15-2016, 08:43 AM
A shell of my former soulless self.

LOL!