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Steven Jenkins 03-26-2010 05:36 AM

Fatal Flaw?
 
I just spotted a huge flaw in my story - but think it isn't critical. Just after some advice :)

My plot is about getting a mem-stick with vitally important data on it to a particular person & place.

My flaw is that this data could feasibly be uploaded to the person via the internet, or the mem-stick posted in the mail, which kinda undermines my hero's hazardous trek across the country.

I'm covering this flaw by exposing that the mem-stick is hardware protected, so if it's inserted into a standard USB port the data gets fried - and if it's posted in the mail it could get intercepted by the authrities who are hunting for the mem-stick.

This arse-covering seems a bit feeble I know, but I'm still feeling kinda safe here because my flaw is the self-same one I've just spotted in STAR-WARS, and nobody else ever seems to have done so.

What do you think? Am I safe on this one, or not?

Many thanks :)

Steve Jenkins
rebel base
3rd planet on left past death-star
galaxy far-far-way

hmm!
Maybe I just answered my own question.

Richmond Weems 03-26-2010 06:01 AM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Jenkins (Post 630975)
I'm covering this flaw by exposing that the mem-stick is hardware protected, so if it's inserted into a standard USB port the data gets fried - and if it's posted in the mail it could get intercepted by the authrities who are hunting for the mem-stick.

I think you did just answer your own question. Those sound okay to me. And I'm not sure how much comedy you have in your script, but you could have your main character try to mail the mem-stick, but when he goes to the UPS store to send it out, maybe he's not confident in their ability to get the package out without damaging it. (I'm thinking of the opening of Ace Ventura, only I don't think you need to be as broad as that.)

As far as fatal flaws, there is no greater flaw than in The Fellowship of the Ring when they're discussing what to do with the One Ring: Just have the eagle drop it into the volcano. Yeah, yeah, before all the Ring fans get up in arms about how the eagles wouldn't be involved in the affairs of man, blahblahblah...but you woulda thought SOMEONE would've mentioned it.

HH

Steven Jenkins 03-26-2010 06:53 AM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Thanks for the reassurance HH :)

Nice one spotting that about the eagles :) And I always wondered why the Valar let Melkor out of his prison in the first place (in "The Silmirillian").

I think I've covered my flaw up further, by having a twist that the hero's quest is just a dummy to let the bad guys recover the plans, leaving somebody else free to deliver a copy of them unlooked for.

hmm - maybe there''s some more milage in that one too - unless this idea itself is a big plot-flaw...? :( I mean, imagine if Luke's quest was one of many, with 20-30 other messangers showing up at the rebel-base long before he does. :mad:

Ronaldinho 03-26-2010 03:11 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Jenkins (Post 630975)
This arse-covering seems a bit feeble I know, but I'm still feeling kinda safe here because my flaw is the self-same one I've just spotted in STAR-WARS, and nobody else ever seems to have done so.

Back when Star Wars was made, most people didn't know what a floppy disk was and hadn't even heard of email. Besides which, it's science fiction: "the rules of the universe are that this much data requires a specialized droid to hold it" - even though it was "beamed" to Leia's ship - and people accept it.

Things are very different today, in a film set in our world. I think you need something like it can only be read on a certain machine or something, as a security feature.

The mail thing you can dodge in a variety of ways - you know the post office requires you to hand packages above a certain size to a person, you can't just drop them off, right? Well, you can, if you just bought the postage in such a way as its trackable to your credit card.

You could probably work something in along those lines.

jonpiper 03-26-2010 03:15 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Jenkins (Post 630975)
I'm covering this flaw if it's posted in the mail it could get intercepted by the authrities who are hunting for the mem-stick.

Perhaps there's no delivery address. He must deliver it in person at a public place.

Ravenlocks 03-26-2010 03:21 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by haroldhecuba (Post 630978)
As far as fatal flaws, there is no greater flaw than in The Fellowship of the Ring when they're discussing what to do with the One Ring: Just have the eagle drop it into the volcano. Yeah, yeah, before all the Ring fans get up in arms about how the eagles wouldn't be involved in the affairs of man, blahblahblah...but you woulda thought SOMEONE would've mentioned it.

HH

Wow. I can't believe in all the times I read the books I never, ever thought of that. :o

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Jenkins (Post 630984)
hmm - maybe there''s some more milage in that one too - unless this idea itself is a big plot-flaw...? :( I mean, imagine if Luke's quest was one of many, with 20-30 other messangers showing up at the rebel-base long before he does. :mad:

That would be kinda cool, and kinda funny, and also kinda anticlimactic. If you were to go that route, you might need to have your protag learn about all the other messengers in late Act II, and then go on to save the day himself in Act III. Somehow.

tgg001 03-26-2010 03:27 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Maybe he does mail it and then it keeps getting returned mysteriously... Or maybe there is a USPS strike after he mails it. Then he's gotta go pry it out of one of those big blue metal mail boxes on the street? That could be fun.

Steven Jenkins 03-26-2010 07:14 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Thanks for all the help and great ideas everyone :)

Makes me feel this idea isn't totally nonsense :D

Many thanks

Southern_land 03-26-2010 11:40 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
i'm assuming the protag will accompany the flash drive ao maybe the drive is password protected and he's scared of the password being intercepted too.

Remember the old say "don't ask if you're paranoid, ask if you're paranoid enough?"
________
CHILIS GIFT CARD

Steven Jenkins 03-27-2010 08:11 AM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
No. The protag doesn't have a big part in this one - it's one of those split protag/MC stories. The MC is caught up in the struggle between the protag/antag, neither of whom get much screen-time.

The MC has to work out what's going on, and make plans on-the-fly.

Bob_Robertson 03-27-2010 02:42 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by haroldhecuba (Post 630978)
I As far as fatal flaws, there is no greater flaw than in The Fellowship of the Ring when they're discussing what to do with the One Ring: Just have the eagle drop it into the volcano. Yeah, yeah, before all the Ring fans get up in arms about how the eagles wouldn't be involved in the affairs of man, blahblahblah...but you woulda thought SOMEONE would've mentioned it.

HH


bwahahahaaa

The Whitest Kids U Kbnow did a friggin HILLARIOUS skit on that....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwxA9O-q2o8

Centos 03-27-2010 03:35 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Not knowing anything about the story -- would embedding the memory chip into your protagonist work? He wakes up, disoriented, his neck is sore, and he receives a call -- if he's not at so-and-so by such-and-such -- a small explosive charge, connected to the chip, is triggered and he's dead. Maybe he's just returned from a trip to a foreign country. The "bad" guys don't care how they get the chip out (dead or alive) -- the "good" guy knows the code and how to disarm it.

That said, you could go the route of "District 9" -- just ignore the questions about how alien "power" juice can change the DNA of a human to that of an alien. I still liked the movie -- even with a plot hole so big you could fly a starship cruiser through it.

Centos 03-27-2010 03:42 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by haroldhecuba (Post 630978)
As far as fatal flaws, there is no greater flaw than in The Fellowship of the Ring when they're discussing what to do with the One Ring: Just have the eagle drop it into the volcano. Yeah, yeah, before all the Ring fans get up in arms about how the eagles wouldn't be involved in the affairs of man, blahblahblah...but you woulda thought SOMEONE would've mentioned it.

I've seen the YouTube video, I thought it was funny, but this wasn't actually a plot hole. The only reason the eagles could just fly into Mordor at the end is because all hell had just broken loose. Remember that the whole reason the fellowship went to the Gates of Mordor for the futile battle was to draw the "eye of Sauron" off the hobbits as they progressed toward... can't remember... the mountain (Mount Doom?). Had the eagles attempted to just fly into Mordor at the beginning, Sauron would have seen them and he had plenty of weapons to deal with them.

At least that's the way I see it.

Richmond Weems 03-27-2010 04:31 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Let's see if we can get twenty pages out of this...

They could've used a bunch of eagles, or they could've just had the same Fellowship draw Sauron's attention off the eagles, or they could've had someone ask, "Why the hell didn't we just use the eagles?" And Gandalf could've said that the eagles don't give a sh!t, or that they've tried to use them in the past, or they could've attempted an eagle and we would've had a kick-ass scene of the Nazgul and eagle dogfight...

All kinds of things could've been used to explain why the eagles weren't used, but the fact is that Tolkien probably didn't think of it until it was already published, and then he had that V8 moment. Little did he realize that the hippies and beatniks that made Lord of the Rings such a huge publishing sensation didn't care either. Or, if they did, they just smoked the doobie, dropped some acid, and discussed it for three days.

HH

Steven Jenkins 03-27-2010 06:45 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Nobody ever discussed using the eagles cos all they care about are rabbits and flying.

And nobody would even dare consider risking having an eagle as a new dark lord cos then everybody would be made to catch rabbits, early worms, loose feathers and building 500 foot earies in stupidly inaccessible places.

Like the old addage: never send a bird to do a man's (or woman's) job.

Centos: sounds like a decent plot technique, but I need my man to do this willingly - even if he needs to get well p*ssed up first.
:)

Centos 03-27-2010 08:25 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by haroldhecuba (Post 631394)
All kinds of things could've been used to explain why the eagles weren't used, but the fact is that Tolkien probably didn't think of it until it was already published, and then he had that V8 moment. Little did he realize that the hippies and beatniks that made Lord of the Rings such a huge publishing sensation didn't care either. Or, if they did, they just smoked the doobie, dropped some acid, and discussed it for three days.

Thing is, Tolkein didn't leave *anything* to chance. He spent weeks getting the moon in the right place in the sky for on the right nights for everyone, scattered all over Middle Earth -- and, of course, he wrote several full languages for the various creatures. Apparently Tolkein -- as a boy -- had written several languages, but his parents threw that "rubbish" out when he moved from South Africa to England. If the Eagles could have taken on Sauron directly, that wouldn't say much about Sauron's power, would it?

Centos 03-27-2010 08:27 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Jenkins (Post 631410)
Centos: sounds like a decent plot technique, but I need my man to do this willingly - even if he needs to get well p*ssed up first.:)

It was just an idea. That's the problem with trying to "fix" screenplays (on the other forum) without knowing where the writer is going. It's no longer their story.

Good luck, BTW.

reddery 03-28-2010 03:51 AM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Jenkins (Post 630975)
My plot is about getting a mem-stick with vitally important data on it to a particular person & place.

My flaw is that this data could feasibly be uploaded to the person via the internet, or the mem-stick posted in the mail, which kinda undermines my hero's hazardous trek across the country.

lets stop there. 'posted in the mail?' and what's a mem-stick? you mean a flash drive.

If something is of importance to the protagonist, then(inciting incident) they act.
-just give him a reason to need to see the whole task through. like the data will help save his son from a fatal illness

Quote:

I'm covering this flaw by exposing that the mem-stick is hardware protected, so if it's inserted into a standard USB port the data gets fried
hardware protected? hmm... like this device with will self destruct in 10 seconds... like Mission Impossible? That's like nineteen fiftys logic, where the flash drive would begin smoking.

They have software encyiption programs. Download WinRAR and zip any file on your computer password protect it.... encryption software can render data irrecoverable

Quote:

and if it's posted in the mail it could get intercepted by the authrities who are hunting for the mem-stick.
just give him a reason not to trust them. An action scequence.
-A guy in Brown short tries to kill them, now there is no option but to take the device personally

PS: no one would believe that a hobbit would bu tt fvck Gandolf

Mac H. 03-28-2010 03:59 AM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Centos (Post 631385)
That said, you could go the route of "District 9" -- just ignore the questions about how alien "power" juice can change the DNA of a human to that of an alien. I still liked the movie -- even with a plot hole so big you could fly a starship cruiser through it.

To be fair, that isn't a 'plot hole' so much as something unexplained.

It would make sense if the 'power juice' wasn't fuel (as is assumed) - but instead the black goo is just a glop of repair nanos.

Once they are inside his system they will 'repair' the perceived damage and rebuild the expected alien body out of the raw material of his own.

It explains why it was needed for the ship too - it isn't to fuel the ship (although people talk about it being 'fuel') it is more of a fuel additive.

Heck - you know those old star cruisers - if you don't have the right fuel additive then the fusion injection points clog up before you're out of the solar system.

That's what the hero alien has been doing all these years ... adapting the existing medical repair nanos so he can fix the ship. And given the way they are treated .. do you really expect him to be up front about the true capabilities of the technology?

That is just one of dozens and dozens of explanations.

So isn't a plot hole - it is something that is left to the viewer to explain.

Mac

Mac H. 03-28-2010 04:12 AM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
To answer the original question - don't explain it to the viewer.

SHOW it to them.

Just have someone try to send the data the sensible way first.
And then we see him get killed.

Our hero has the memory stick of what the guy tried to send, so it's up to him now.

And he's not going to make the same mistake we just saw someone get killed making.

It would also beef up the stakes by making him more of an 'everyday Joe'. He doesn't really understand the technicalities of what is on the stick or why he's being hunted.

And if his own personal stuff was on the stick that the bad guys (erroneously) recovered then now he and his family are at risk.

I vote for 'Let someone try the obvious way and get killed'.

Good luck,

Mac

Steven Jenkins 03-28-2010 09:00 AM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Thanks for the help guys :D I'm getting a bit closer to a good solution now, I think...?

The flash-drive is 'self-destructive', but my Main Character is only told that by the Protagonist who gives him the mission to deliver it somewhere, and there's extreme reasons at the end of the story to doubt Protag's honesty and motives.

Basically I pit the MC against the Protagonist (who's now revealed to actually be the Protagonist of an evil plot) at the end of the film, if that makes any sense? Most of the movie is a smoke-screen, and MC spots the truth and foils the plan in the last few minutes of the film. How - I don't know yet :(

There has to be a rookie-type flaw in this idea somewhere, I just know it.

JeffLowell 03-28-2010 10:50 AM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

There has to be a rookie-type flaw in this idea somewhere, I just know it.
Having your main character and protagonist be different people might qualify. ;)

joe9alt 03-28-2010 11:13 AM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Call off your minions, Lowell. :devil:

That was outta line (or as my three year old would say...) you big fat meany!

asjah8 03-28-2010 11:15 AM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Jenkins (Post 630975)
My plot is about getting a mem-stick with vitally important data on it to a particular person & place.

My flaw is that this data could feasibly be uploaded to the person via the internet, or the mem-stick posted in the mail, which kinda undermines my hero's hazardous trek across the country.


why can't you just wrap up the 'vitally important data' with a trojan virus (like dna)? the recipient has the code to unwrap it, and now the cross-country trekker has a reason to hand it over in person.

Steven Jenkins 03-28-2010 11:43 AM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffLowell (Post 631511)
Having your main character and protagonist be different people might qualify. ;)

Not according to the experts.
I can think of quite a few movies with seperate protags and MCs.

To Kill a mockingbird is the text-book example.
Lord of the Rings (Gandalf the Antag vs Sauron the Protag "Sauron desperately wants the ring, but he must not get it", Frodo is the MC).
Star wars (Emperor=protag, Rebellion=Antag "The more you tighten your grip, there more planets will slip through your fingers", luke is the MC)

There's loads of examples :p

JeffLowell 03-28-2010 12:00 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Jenkins (Post 631521)
Not according to the experts.
I can think of quite a few movies with seperate protags and MCs.

To Kill a mockingbird is the text-book example.

Not sure who you think is who, but I don't see a split.

Quote:

Lord of the Rings (Gandalf the Antag vs Sauron the Protag "Sauron desperately wants the ring, but he must not get it", Frodo is the MC).
Gandalf is neither the antagonist, the protoganist, or the main character. He's an advisor to the protagonist, Frodo. Sauron is the antagonist. Sauron is looking for the ring through his minions, and directly through his eye. Frodo defeats him by destroying the ring and he's won.

Quote:

Star wars (Emperor=protag, Rebellion=Antag "The more you tighten your grip, there more planets will slip through your fingers", luke is the MC)
Luke Skywalker is the protagonist. Darth Vader is the antagonist.

The protagonist and the main character are the same person in every film or novel I can think of. You're supposed to sympathize with the protagonist. Just because the antagonist has a goal doesn't make him the protagonist.

joe9alt 03-28-2010 12:06 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Oh wow...this is serious?

And here I thought Steven was just confusing the terms antagonist and protagonist. :rolleyes:


pro·tag·o·nist [proh-tag-uh-nist]
–noun
1.
the leading character, hero, or heroine of a drama or other literary work.

LIMAMA 03-28-2010 12:08 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joe9alt (Post 631527)
Oh wow...this is serious?

And here I thought Steven was just confusing the terms antagonist and protagonist. :rolleyes:

Please stop using these big words, my tiny little head is about to explode.

:p

joe9alt 03-28-2010 12:11 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Please don't let this become the dumbest thread ever....a thread that I will undoubtedly devote countless hours to when I should really be writing.

Please...

Luke Skywalker?

Frodo?

Anybody?

"sadsmiley:

Steven Jenkins 03-28-2010 12:51 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Well, I don't want to be a know-it-all here. I'm just a rookie learning the ropes. There's all kinds of theorists out there publishing stuff on story-crafting, and one of them just caught my imagination.

I guess it's just a mix-up of terms, probably from my having recently read the theory behind the "Dramatica" program, which they agree is a little different to established thinking.

:)

dmizzo 03-28-2010 12:58 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
I like to make them all the same character. Little trick I learned from Mr. Charlie Kaufman.

Seriously, I've heard this protagonist and main character being different people thing before, and I've never understood it. The classic example is Atticus as the protagonist and Scout as the main character. But I don't see how looking at it like that helps write the thing.

Just because we see the story from Scout's perspective doesn't mean the drama isn't driven by Atticus and his actions. Feels like arbitrary labeling, but maybe there's another way to look at it.

However, there is no world in which Gandalf = antagonist makes even a lick of sense. That's gibberish.

Steven Jenkins 03-28-2010 01:23 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
well, according to the theory the protag is the one who is trying to achieve the main goal in the plot, and the Antag is the one trying to stop him.

The theory uses the example of a battle. two sides meeting on a battlefield. The protag is the general trying to occupy the territory, and the antag is the general trying to stop him. The main character is a simple soldier in the middle of the battle, and it's his eyes we use to experience the heat the battle.

so using this example, Sauron is the one trying to dominate middle earth, Gandalf is the one manauvering and instigating the forces against him, and Frodo is the poor soldier in the middle of the battlefield.

At least that's how I understand the theory to be working.

It just never occured to me that not everybody would buy into this theory :)

They also say that a film like Die-Hard is something different altogether. The main character is also the protagonist here, as the general is also the soldier in the field.

or is he the 'Antagonist' - as he's trying to 'stop' the bad-guys...?

Ronaldinho 03-28-2010 01:39 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
The Sauron-Frodo thing makes an important point: you can tell stories from multiple points of view. You could make Sauron the hero, tell the story from his side. (Somebody did this online somewhere - he's trying to overturn a racist hegemony).

But one needs to be careful with this. In a good story, every character has strong motivations, they want something - that means anyone could be the protagonist. I mean, imagine Boromir as the tragic hero of LOTR: he's sent on a quest to find a weapon he needs to save his people, he doesn't get it, and millions die in a war as a consequence.

As Bill has pointed out, often in action movies the hero is reactive: in Die Hard, no bad guys = no movie. No John McClane ... well, you still kinda have a movie there, albiet a very different one.

Nevertheless, the hero is driving the particular action of the film. Die Hard with Holly as the hero is a very very different film, even though the bad guys are the same and have the same plan.

In LOTR, Frodo's decision to take the Ring to Mordor drives the particular action of the film. In the absence of Sauron's plan for world domination, that quest doesn't exist, but that doesn't mean Frodo isn't the protagonist.

There is a larger story of which Gandalf is the protagonist - his war against Sauron, as part of the council. The events of the books end up being the third act of that story - the pieces Gandalf has set in motion in his life up to that point (digging through ancient books, developing relationships among the various races so they would be ready when the time came, seeking out the one ring) all come to fruition. But that is a story Tolkein didn't tell, we only get echoes of it (Gandalf talks of his encounter with the Necromancer, etc).

Similarly, you'd go back even farther if you were going to tell the story where Sauron is the hero, back before the creation of the rings of power, which is probably the first-act break in his story. (Not having read the Simarillion in its entirety, I don't know all the details of Sauron's history, so that's a bit of a guess). In that story, the events of the books are, again, the third act: he discovers that his ring has been found, and declares himself openly in a final bid to destroy the hegemony of the Elves.

But that should of storytelling jiu-jitsu shouldn't obscure the fact that the protagonist is the hero of the story by definition, the one who drives the action.

Sometimes you have a story where the point-of-view character isn't the protagonist (eg, "Shane") - where we see the hero through the eyes of someone else. That might be the sort of thing the original poster is talking about here, I'm not sure.

JeffLowell 03-28-2010 01:58 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Scout is the narrator, not the main character. It's like saying that Nick is the main character of Gatsby. (Please, don't someone say that.)

And yes, you can tell LOTR with anyone being the protagonist. (See "Rosencrantz and Guildernstern Are Dead.") That doesn't change the fact that Frodo is the protagonist and main character of the movie as it exists now.

Steven, art is subjective, but the meaning of the word "protagonist" isn't. And it's not just semantics - your main character is your protagonist and his goal defines the plot of the movie. I'm not sure who's teaching you the theory that makes Sauron the protagonist of LOTR, or the Emperor the protagonist of Star Wars, but you should never talk to that person again, because they are giving you horrifically bad information.

Steven Jenkins 03-28-2010 03:21 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Right :)

I'll go back and re-assess what's what. I need to get these things down-pat.

And, thanks for all the input everyone :)

TwoBrad Bradley 03-28-2010 04:27 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Which is the reporter, Thompson, in Citizen Kane? He seems to be the character with the goal while the story is more about someone else.

Ravenlocks 03-28-2010 06:15 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by asjah8 (Post 631546)
now, what's even messier is that frodo doesn't really evolve at all; he is a static character. the story evolves via his involvement in everyone else's lives; the dynamic supporting characters. actually, frodo has to be a strong static character in order to carry the spine while the writer plays with povs of other threads. otherwise, the whole thing would fall apart.

Frodo does actually evolve. He comes under the ring's influence and starts to turn darker, so that's one type of evolution triggered by something external. But he also arcs simply because of everything he goes through during the story. When he gets back to the Shire at the end, he realizes he doesn't really belong there anymore. Of course, he has to take care of that little Saruman problem - and he can. He's not the hobbit he was when he left.

I can't remember how it played out in the movies, though. Maybe he was more static in them.

jonpiper 03-28-2010 06:19 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Jenkins (Post 631533)
I guess it's just a mix-up of terms, probably from my having recently read the theory behind the "Dramatica" program, which they agree is a little different to established thinking.

:)

Steven, study this article concerning when the main character is not the protagonist, http://storyfanatic.com/articles/sto...e-protagonist/

It may help you continue to discuss this issue. :)

reddery 03-28-2010 06:59 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
catalyst

asjah8 03-28-2010 09:14 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenlocks (Post 631583)
Frodo does actually evolve. He comes under the ring's influence and starts to turn darker, so that's one type of evolution triggered by something external. But he also arcs simply because of everything he goes through during the story. When he gets back to the Shire at the end, he realizes he doesn't really belong there anymore. Of course, he has to take care of that little Saruman problem - and he can. He's not the hobbit he was when he left.

I can't remember how it played out in the movies, though. Maybe he was more static in them.

i never thought about it that way; good point raven. i tend to think of an arc as more internal and character-altering. frodo isn't really conflicted about what he has to do, although he's afraid; and he recognizes evil for what it is. all through the story he tells others the darkness is his cross to bear. the only point i really hesitated, was golum. frodo didn't recognize golum's deeper evil because sympathy blinded him.

well, this blows my fabulous theory all to hell. in a good way though, so i appreciate the insight. :)


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