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-   -   Fatal Flaw? (http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/boards/showthread.php?t=54124)

NikeeGoddess 03-30-2010 02:38 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

The two main examples that seem to be repeatedly cited as an example of this Main Character not being the Protagonist theory are Red in Shawshank and Boo in Mockingbird
i don't know where you're getting this but i think it's the wrong analogy. should be scout in mockingbird telling her story about atticus. just like red tells his story about andy. both done in voice over.

instant_karma 03-30-2010 02:42 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NikeeGoddess (Post 631985)
i don't know where you're getting this but i think it's the wrong analogy. should be scout in mockingbird telling her story about atticus. just like red tells his story about andy. both done in voice over.

My bad. I did indeed mean Scout.

JimHull 03-30-2010 02:45 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Hey instant,

Sure I can give you some more examples that aren't adaptations:

As mentioned above, "The Lives of Others" (Das Leben der Anderen) which won the Oscar for Best Foreign Film in 2006 has a split Main Character and Protagonist. "The Counterfeiters" (Die Falscher) which won the Oscar for the following year also has a split between the two (notice the pattern?). Both excellent films.

Back home, and more recent, you would have "Zombieland." The girls are the Protagonists trying to reach the safety of the West Coast, Columbus (Jesse Eisenberg) is the Main Character - he's the one we empathize with the most and experience the story through. The original "Terminator" also has the roles filled by two different characters. Reese (Michael Biehn) is the Protagonist trying to protect Sarah Connor (Linda Hamilton) who is the Main Character in the story. Again, we see the film through her eyes, but it is Reese who drives the efforts towards the story goal.

And, of course, there's always "Casablanca." Viktor Lazlo is the Protagonist pursuing those papers and a means to escape. Rick is the Main Character through which we witness the story ("Of all the gin joints...why did she have to walk into mine?")

JeffLowell 03-30-2010 03:04 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JimHull (Post 631988)
Viktor Lazlo is the Protagonist pursuing those papers and a means to escape. Rick is the Main Character through which we witness the story ("Of all the gin joints...why did she have to walk into mine?")

Ack.

Casablanca is not the story of Viktor Lazlo trying to get some papers.

NikeeGoddess 03-30-2010 03:06 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
million dollar baby
main character - the boxer and the coach (swank and eastwood)
but the story is told through the protagonist - once again, morgan freeman

the cooler
main character - the cooler (william macy)
protagonist - the casino owner (ron livingston)

dmizzo 03-30-2010 03:08 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JimHull (Post 631988)
And, of course, there's always "Casablanca." Viktor Lazlo is the Protagonist pursuing those papers and a means to escape. Rick is the Main Character through which we witness the story ("Of all the gin joints...why did she have to walk into mine?")

Victor Laszlo is the protagonist? Those are some serious semantic gymnastics you're attempting, Jim. Try not to pull something.

NikeeGoddess 03-30-2010 03:15 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
road to perdition
main character - tom hanks
protagonist - the kid

JimHull 03-30-2010 03:23 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
LOL, nice one dmizzo - The problems in "Casablanca" exist because there are two letters of transit that have gone missing. Letters of transit that Lazlo was going to use to get to America. Everyone wants those letters, but it is Lazlo who is driving the pursuit towards them (both because he is in Casablanca and because he wants them for his own self-interest). Strasser is actively trying to prevent that from happening (Antagonist). Once Lazlo gets those letters, the problems in the story are resolved and the film is over.

The Main Character - the one we experience the story through is Rick. Through him we get to feel what it is like to be someone who goes from an attitude of not sticking their neck out for anyone, to someone willing to take action for the benefit of others.

JeffLowell 03-30-2010 03:37 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Jim, considering you teach this, I'm probably not going to convince you of anything, but I'll give it a shot.

Rick is the active character making choices. He begins the movie denying he loves Ilsa, and denying he cares about which side wins the war. His actions during the movie show that both of those statements are untrue.

He's the one at the end with the impossible choice: does he get on the plane with Ilsa, and let a leader of the resistance get captured? Does he send Laszlo away and stay with Ilsa, even though that wouldn't be safe for her? Does he protect the two things he loves - Ilsa and the resistance - by sending them both away, even though he's sacrificing his own happiness?

If you're correct and the protagonist of the movie is Laszlo, then he's pretty much the least compelling protagonist in the history of cinema. If your protagonist spends the end of the movie standing there with his dick in his hand while someone else decides his fate and does everything for him... you've got a problem.



And on top of all of that, it was an adaptation (of a play).

dmizzo 03-30-2010 03:47 PM

Re: Fatal Flaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffLowell (Post 632000)
If your protagonist spends the end of the movie standing there with his dick in his hand while someone else decides his fate and does everything for him... you've got a problem.

Stuck the landing.


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