The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

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  • The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

    I've posted this post on a different forum aside from Done Deal, and I'm posting it here because there's something fishy going on.

    I'm a screenwriter of course, and I've been writing for a long time. Not too long ago, a fellow screenwriter introduced me to The Blacklist; upload yer script, pay a lil fee, and wait (and hope) for a good rating to get some access or recognition to the Hollywood Players. I did a little research, saw a whole lot of good stuff about the Black List on the web, and its creator, Franklin Leonard, and decided to give it a go (Hey why not? It sounded legit). I uploaded an action comedy (which has placed in the semi-finals and finals of Scriptalooza and Nicholl) and the results came back. My script scored a 4. I was shocked as sh*t. How dare them? LOL. Anyways, I plunked down another $50 for a second review (I figured that whomever read my script was high on drugs to rate it that low). My second review came back with a 5. Hmmm. I figured that a 3rd time would be the charm and went for it. Same script, no revisions. It came back with a 7 (not bad). Regardless, they say that if you don't score an 8 or more, the script won't get any attention. So after all that money spent, I was ass out, and my script wasn't going anywhere.

    A friend of mine (who got a 6 on her script recently), called me, and the subject of the Black List came up. We started to compare notes, and noticed a kind of scoring pattern with our script evaluations. We got in touch with some of our other writer friends, and we all noticed the same thing: everyone was coming in under the magic number of 8 (except one person, and his script still didn't get any traction on the Black List site), even with multiple reviews. We thought, "maybe we all just suck," but that wasn't it. Between us all (and there are major contest finalists and winners amongst us), someone should have hit the mark somewhere, but nope. Nothing. Nada. We all had the same common denominator gripe though: our script review summaries (the non-numerical portions) seemed a little dodgy. Some of us got free review do-overs to correct the dodginess (a nice gesture by the folks at The Black List), but even the do-over reviews were suspect. Suspect along the lines of leading us to believe that these reviewers weren't the "experienced pros" we thought they were. Not good.

    Long story short, we realized that if we had taken the time to read the fine print on the Black List site itself, we wouldn't have become victims of the "dangling carrot" system, and we would've all saved ourselves a lot of money (and mental anguish) in the process. This is what the site says about its evaluators (readers):

    "All of our readers have WORKED as first filters for major agencies, studios, production companies, television studios, and management companies."

    Yup. The operative word here is "worked," as in past tense, which now leads us to the following ad posted by the Black List and found on anonymousproductionassistant.com

    "To meet still rising demand as 2014 begins, the Black List is hiring more professional screenplay and pilot readers to evaluate screenplays and pilots and write brief evaluations. Requirements remain the same: Applicants must be strong critical readers, elegant writers, and have minimum one year previous experience reading as, at least, employed first filters (i.e. not interns) for major Hollywood financiers, studios, networks, production companies, agencies, or management companies. Expected workload is minimum 15 screenplays/pilots per month, though the reading and evaluations can be completed at your leisure from wherever you are. Readers are paid on a per script basis. Screenplay and pilots longer than 30 minute readers currently receive $25 per script. Readers of pilots 30 minutes or shorter receive $15. Apply by sending a brief cover letter, resume, and two examples of previous coverage to [email protected] with the subject line "Black List Reader-

    For $25 per script, the Readers at Black List are most likely part-timers or unemployed and destitute college students just starting out, or trying to get a foot in the door themselves. The mystery of the dodgy reviews has been solved, and now it all makes sense. You might say that it doesn't matter, because these are the "gatekeepers in the studio system." Yes, that's true, but the difference in this case lies in the fact that you typically don't PAY the gatekeepers in the system. With the Black List, you are paying: $25 to host your script on their site, and an additional $50 for a read (if you want to get your script attention, they say), and that leads us to this very valid question:

    Why would any REAL decision maker in the Hollywood development system go through the Black List and accept the opinions of lowly, independent THIRD PARTY "readers" who don't even work for them in the first place, to evaluate a script? The answer? They don't, because they don't need to. They have in-house readers for that (an epiphany that should've occurred to me before I spent all that money).

    Now you may say: "But they have Hollywood pro members that subscribe to the Black List and people have scored major deals or representation from the site." Ask yourself this: Who, and how many? The success stories are far and few in between IMO. Did the people who scored deals already have representation? If you do your research, you'll see that the most popular deals were for those who probably already had reps (no coincidence), and for those who DIDN'T have reps that scored, who were they? (Last time I checked, it was a guy (Justin Kremer, whom you already know of) who just so happened to have interned for the Black List (no coincidence).

    The Black List prides itself on transparency (and they're not kidding), because what's least likely to happen (your big break) is spelled out right in front of you. Who are the Hollywood pro members that can allegedly jump start your career and change your life? Read what it says on the Black List site:

    "The Black List counts over 2,000 film industry professionals AMONGST its membership ranging from major and mid-major agency assistants to studio presidents of production and working creative talent (actors, directors, etc.). These are people involved in making major studio motion pictures and independent films likely to play in festivals and get distribution."

    Sounds fantastic doesn't it? Not so fast. The operative word here is the term "AMONGST." Out of 2,000 pros, the number of REAL players (the major and mid-major agency assistants and studio presidents of production, etc) that COULD be listed as members of the Black List, COULD be as little 6, and MAYBE as much as 300. You don't know (and you never will) because the Black List isn't going to share that info with you. Now look at the "working creative talent" line. Hey, I know of PLENTY of "working creative talent" that continue to work in obscurity (and you do, too, and yes, they're on imdb). Plainly speaking, they can't do sh*t for you, your career, or their own, because they're not in any position to call any shots whatsoever, and no one knows them because they're not famous. Now that you can clearly comprehend what "2,000 film industry professionals" can actually be, the Black List doesn't sound so enticing, does it? Of course not, because now it has become painfully obvious that the "dangling carrot" you continue to chomp at by purchasing evaluation reads with the hope of getting "access" to your big break, is nothing more than a mystery carrot; you don't know what it's really made of.

    So is the Black List a scam? I don't know what you would call it, because they're telling you right to your face (albeit through not so obvious language) what they're all about, but I will say this; it's no different from ink tip. They're all feeding on your hopes and aspirations, and making a bundle of money from it. If you're truly going to invest in yourself and your career and you have to "pay to play," you're probably better off bribing a KNOWN literary agent or major studio in-house reader with a cash gift. At least this way you know for certain that your material is getting to the right hands (and I'm kind of joking and not joking when I say this).

    The moral of the story here? Writer beware, because as you can see, something stinks here. Even The Bitter Script Reader (a popular screenwriting blogger) seems to have been fooled. It was brought to my attention that his script, "Toby is Now Following You," is currently on one of the Black List's top lists. Is it there because it's actually good? I don't know. I haven't read it. Could it be there by and through manipulated high score "reader" evaluations in order to "disarm" The Bitter Script Reader's usual astuteness for spotting BS? Could be. You don't know who is allegedly reading and scoring your script from behind the scenes. But one thing is for sure, I don't think it's a coincidence that The Bitter Script Reader's script is on one of the top lists. If someone like The Bitter Script Reader were to NOT be on your side, the money train (for a site like The Black List) stops abruptly, because a lot of writers and new writers read his blogs for tips and a heads-up on what's what on all things screenwriting.

    Your thoughts and comments? (I do expect a fair amount of trolls and paid shills to come out in force on this one, in addition to the rational and objective thinkers that I welcome), but hey, there's nothing better than a healthy, no-holds-barred, uncensored discussion about a hot topic.

  • #2
    Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

    I think you make some intresting observations, and I'm glad you posted them. What I think is difficult to guage is what is the difference between an 8 and say, a five score. I think there are probably some really well written scripts that are below the 7-8 range.

    Perhaps there is a disconect between what the writer hopes to acheive and what the pros are using the site to search for. It seems plausible that an unrepped writer is looking to gain representation-- hoping someone will take them on because they see skill and voice in the writing.

    I don't know , but it's interesting to consider...

    Thanks for posting your thoughts.
    Best,
    FA4
    "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

      Originally posted by TheRangeMatters View Post
      I uploaded an action comedy (which has placed in the semi-finals and finals of Scriptalooza and Nicholl) and the results came back. My script scored a 4. I was shocked as sh*t. How dare them? LOL.

      We thought, "maybe we all just suck," but that wasn't it. Between us all (and there are major contest finalists and winners amongst us), someone should have hit the mark somewhere, but nope.
      I'm not a defender of the BL, because people should make up their own mind. Readers opinions, no matter what contest they are from, are just that -- OPINIONS.

      But I think FL said that BL pays its readers MORE than the readers make from other contests and managers/agents/studios. So the whole aspect of BL readers somehow being the scum of the earth probably isn't true. Readers are low on the totem pole, for sure. And low paid to boot. All of them. Everywhere.

      You don't really think that Amy Pascale is a reader for the Nicholl semi's, do you?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

        Originally posted by TheRangeMatters View Post
        We thought, "maybe we all just suck," but that wasn't it. Between us all (and there are major contest finalists and winners amongst us), someone should have hit the mark somewhere, but nope. Nothing. Nada.
        I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'd make one observation: what you're saying is that a group of writers who aren't professionals yet are told by readers that their scripts aren't at the professional level, and that suggests something fishy is going on.

        If a bunch of pro writers sent in scripts and all of them got 5-7, that would suggest a disconnect. But that's not what happened here.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

          The OP is basically a long-form deadline comment: irrational, bitter and misinformed.

          I'm not going to waste my time addressing all of the untruths in your rant -- which have all been dispatched in the 120+ pages of "healthy, no-holds-barred, uncensored discussion" with Franklin Leonard on this very site -- but I will respond to one of your ridiculous points: The Bitter Script Reader has NOT bought any Black List reads. All of his rating have been from Industry Members.

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          • #6
            Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

            cool story, bro

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

              I've read Toby is Now Following You, so I can vouch that it is a solid script and deserves the positive ratings it's getting. I did not read it on the BL site and am not responsible for any of its current reviews or scores.

              I also think it's very low to cast doubt on another writer's work, particularly when you have never actually read the script. That's unprofessional and disrespectful.
              Chicks Who Script podcast

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

                Originally posted by emily blake View Post
                Toby is Now Following You
                Great title.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

                  Originally posted by emily blake View Post
                  I also think it's very low to cast doubt on another writer's work, particularly when you have never actually read the script. That's unprofessional and disrespectful.
                  I don't have a problem with most of the OP's statements (though I'd tend to agree with Lowell's sentiments), but I do have a problem with him implying that writers basically received a bribe without a single shred of evidence.

                  It's not just unprofessional and disrespectful, it's wrong. Full stop.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

                    By the way, The Screenplay Mechanic just posted his Lugnut list, said he read 290 scripts last year. Of those, he said he gave "Consider" to less than five. (Not sure if that means 4 or 3...or maybe 4.5...but you get the point.)

                    Given those odds, I'd say that there's a lot of non-professionals out there.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

                      I'd say there's a fair amount of conjecture going on here...
                      " Don't really like writing. But I do like having written." Vince Gilligan, Breaking Bad.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

                        Originally posted by TheRangeMatters View Post
                        MWe got in touch with some of our other writer friends, Between us all (and there are major contest finalists and winners amongst us), someone should have hit the mark somewhere, but nope. Nothing. Nada.
                        I too have have pondered the calibre of the pros prowling the waters and I believe better money needs to be offered to readers so I won't pick up on that. However, what I will pick up on is you like to single out choice words so here is mine: some. You talked to "some" writer friends and on the basis of that you feel that's enough to spot an undeniable trend? That would be cool if there were just "some" scripts on the Black List but there's not, there's thousands.

                        Also, 'tis arrogant to assume one of your group's scripts "should" have hit the mark, don't you think? You know how tough the industry is so why should one have been good enough? Even the Nicholl is still an amateur contest and its finalists aren't necessarily up to professional standards (which is what the BL marks to). Speaking of contests you say your clan boasts finalists and winners of major contests - care to name them and provide some perspective and credentials?

                        I also find it hard to believe that anyone with big-time results in competitions of that stature, whose scripts are as solid as you say. would even need the Black List in the first place. Don't you all have rep deals with CAA, WME, Paradigm and CoC?

                        I can't claim a Nicholl win but as a result of the Black List, I scored an 8 (twice), a manager, and had dialogue with Joel Schumacher Productions. I also saw my response rate shoot up when I put my BL score in my queries to bonafide players (which means the BL does open doors). So do these good results make me a shill? And as the script that got me all this bombed out of BlueCat at the first hurdle does that mean BlueCat is a scam, too?

                        Or does it mean opinion varies?
                        Last edited by SundownInRetreat; 01-20-2014, 04:35 PM.
                        M.A.G.A.

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                        • #13
                          Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

                          Originally posted by TheRangeMatters View Post

                          Your thoughts and comments? (I do expect a fair amount of trolls and paid shills to come out in force on this one, in addition to the rational and objective thinkers that I welcome), but hey, there's nothing better than a healthy, no-holds-barred, uncensored discussion about a hot topic.
                          I've been saying this for a while. So have a rather large number of others posting on forums around the 'net. I've argued with Leonard on this site. There are many many better options. The lesson is: you get what you pay for. Cheap labor is just that.

                          Careful research and a well-crafted query are far more likely to get a script read by an actual producer's reader, than TBL. And you'll know who is reading. And it's free for the writer.
                          wry

                          The rule is the first fifteen pages should enthrall me, but truth is, I'm only giving you about 3-5 pages. ~ Hollywood Script Reader

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

                            Originally posted by TheRangeMatters View Post
                            They're all feeding on your hopes and aspirations, and making a bundle of money from it.
                            This by far is the most fascinating part to me. Gotta say, I'm in damn awe.

                            Do the math on the $$$ the site's pulling in. More breathtaking than a freshly shorn scrotum.

                            Kudos FL.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

                              Originally posted by TheRangeMatters View Post
                              Even The Bitter Script Reader (a popular screenwriting blogger) seems to have been fooled. It was brought to my attention that his script, "Toby is Now Following You," is currently on one of the Black List's top lists. Is it there because it's actually good? I don't know. I haven't read it. Could it be there by and through manipulated high score "reader" evaluations in order to "disarm" The Bitter Script Reader's usual astuteness for spotting BS? Could be. You don't know who is allegedly reading and scoring your script from behind the scenes. But one thing is for sure, I don't think it's a coincidence that The Bitter Script Reader's script is on one of the top lists. If someone like The Bitter Script Reader were to NOT be on your side, the money train (for a site like The Black List) stops abruptly, because a lot of writers and new writers read his blogs for tips and a heads-up on what's what on all things screenwriting.
                              I take issue with virtually everything you say in your long post, but this, THIS really shows you don't know what you're talking about. As Rhodi already pointed out - I have NOT paid for ANY evaluations from the Black List. My Black List experience is completely irrelevant to your baseless attack on the professionalism of the readers.

                              Further, it's incredibly easy to discover that fact. Not only are there no reviews on my script, but I flat-out stated on my own blog that I was not purchasing reviews from the Black List readers. If you're going to slander someone's professionalism and integrity, it would behoove you to do a modicum of research.

                              But you didn't, and I think any rational person would find that to be a severe hit to your credibility, especially since this screed is your first post, which was clearly made to stir up trouble. Most of the issues you raise here have been discussed and addressed directly on this very board by Franklin.

                              As for my script, I'm using the Black List site for hosting it to their members. Nothing more. And so far I've been pleased with my results.

                              As a user of the site, I feel pretty secure in crying "hogwash" at your insinuation that readers score scripts below 8 as a way of encouraging them to purchase more reads. I've seen plenty of scripts score 8 and higher. Hell, each week I get two emails full of scripts that have hit that benchmark.

                              In all honesty, I think that the site might be TOO generous with their 8s because so many scripts are spot-lit each week that it becomes harder for individual scripts to stand out. My notes to the readers would be to be more selective, not less.

                              Also if you make use of the sites charts about the percentage of scripts that gets each score, it looks pretty kosher to me.

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