Question for repped writers/ and or reps?

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  • Question for repped writers/ and or reps?

    Long time lurker first time poster.

    Hoping I could get some thoughts from other repped writers. Or reps that float about on these boards.

    About me:

    I've got an agent and managers.

    My managers are a recent addition to the team. I parted ways with my last set of managers as we just weren't swimming in the same direction. Got on great just wasn't meant to be. Plus my agent wasn't keen on the direction either.

    So...

    A little more about my situation:

    Agent didn't want me getting any more managers. Telling me to concentrate on developing relationships with the execs I've been meeting these last few years. Then I hear through the grapevine that said agent isn't happy with the type of material I've been working on. I write mainly action thrillers and crime dramas and I'd been dabbling in sci-fi.

    Here's the thing:

    I wanted a manager. I like the role of a manager. So (without agent's help) i went off in search of a new manager. Luckily generated some interest, took a few meetings until I'd found the reps I liked.

    Turns out my new managers are super cosy with my agent. Bonus. Figured as much anyway given that they're all partners in their respective firms and it's a small industry.

    Now, the new managers want a new spec. I should add I've not sold anything yet but have had scripts go out and been well received. Lots of meet and greets. The water bottle tour etc etc.

    Anyways back to the story.

    Agent steps back lets myself and the new managers settle on a project.

    I logline a ton of ideas. They choose a few. I outline the first one. They think it's cool. I write it. Beat for beat. Now I've been doing this long enough to know that the execution's pretty tight. I mean sure there'll be changes. There's always changes. That's part of the process but...

    I finish the spec. It goes to the whole team. Agent reads within two days. Takes the new managers almost two weeks. Hmm that's a little off for me. Red flag? Maybe. But hey ho they're busy. I'll sit on my self-involved ego and see what everybody thinks. Notes etc.

    So we set a conference call with all parties. Conference call happens. Turns out they've already spoken without me re the spec and...

    They're really nice. No criticism. No revisions, just lots of pleasantries. Compelling stuff, great world you've built. Lots of inner conflict they say.

    So I get off the phone. My girlfriend asks "how'd it go?"

    "Well sweetie, they want a page one rewrite..."

    "They said that?".

    "No, no they were way too smart to allow such confrontational words to roll off their tongues..."

    "So they killed your script with kindness then?"

    "It would appear so"

    "Oh"

    Barely any notes. Barely any explanation. Just lots of niceties. I check the outline that my new managers signed off on and yup it's the EXACT same, beat for beat as the script I handed in.

    Now I'm really pissed. I mean I could have done an outline for any number of execs that wanna work with me. From companies with discretionary funds to two oscar nominated producers I've already developed other stuff with. Sigh.

    So yeah I'm feeling rather... Disgruntled. To the point where i wanna drop them. But they're buddies with my agent. The agent who didn't want me to sign with them in the first place. I go and do that and I look flippant. Almost petulant. Nope, I'd look ridiculous.

    So now I'm sat at my desk writing a frickin' outline for a script that I have no clue about. Theme? What theme? Tone? Huh? Story? There's a story in this? Thought you just wanted **** blown up. Screw inner conflict. We like external conflict!

    So folks I gotta ask, is this normal?

  • #2
    Re: Question for repped writers/ and or reps?

    Originally posted by Garfield View Post
    So now I'm sat at my desk writing a frickin' outline for a script that I have no clue about. Theme? What theme? Tone? Huh? Story? There's a story in this? Thought you just wanted **** blown up. Screw inner conflict. We like external conflict!
    I'm having a little bit of a hard time understanding what they want you to do with your script - what sort of rewrite they want. (Are they saying there's an absence of theme and story, or are you?) But maybe you are, too.

    Here's what I would do. Get on the phone with one of the managers. Or both, I don't know. But not everybody. Whichever one you feel the most comfortable with, even if that's your agent.

    And say, "Okay, look, you guys were all really nice, and I appreciate that. But I'm also sensing a certain lack of enthusiasm. So I want you to give it to me straight, because I have no idea what I should be doing now but I feel like it's something. Stop pulling punches."

    The larger problem, "They agreed on X, I gave them X, and now they don't like it," is, I think, common. What they're telling you is that they don't love it. And one thing you need to understand is that most agents and managers won't know why they don't love something - they'll just know that they don't love it.

    I think it's usually more important to give people something awesome than it is to give them exactly what you told them you were going to give them. If you don't want to call them and get into it more, you might consider a rewrite where you say, "eff the outline, how to I make this as awesome as possible?"

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Question for repped writers/ and or reps?

      NOTHING in this industry seems normal to me, and yet, at this point, none of it surprises me either. It's an industry that basically runs on insincerity and disingenuousness. Ronaldinho gives good advice: call your reps and diplomatically extract the truth.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Question for repped writers/ and or reps?

        Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post
        I think it's usually more important to give people something awesome than it is to give them exactly what you told them you were going to give them.
        1000% agree. It's just reality that sometimes things in the outline don't pan out, adjustments must be made, but awesome is requisite. If you get taken in a direction where something is awesome, they'll respond.

        Garfield, I've been there too and it's more normal than you think. Plenty here on this forum have written specs that their agents weren't feeling, and the whole thing gets squashed. It happens. More than people care to admit.

        Here's the good news. You can write your way out of it.

        You need to get back into that headspace, remember what got you that agent in the first place. Follow your gut. It's the only thing that matters. Because to be honest, even if you were to ask your agent and your managers, they probably couldn't pin down exactly why they didn't respond to it. If they can, great - but a lot of people seem to know how to tell you something isn't working, but don't know how to fix it themselves. Follow your gut. Make it awesome.

        And check your PM, sending something your way.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Question for repped writers/ and or reps?

          Nail down where the script stands. Ask them what the plan moving forward is.

          Then, if they want rewrites, ask yourself, "Is this idea worth pursuing?" If you've lost the love for writing it and they have no love for selling it, you may end up throwing good time after bad performing endless blind rewrites. Some ideas just have something wrong at their core and are more trouble than they're worth to fix.

          Most importantly: Don't let your reps get inside your head. I've had trouble with this myself. Instead of just writing and trusting my instinct, I started thinking too much. Every scene became "Will my manager and agent like this?"

          I know a lot of managers do the "Send me 10 log lines a day and we'll find one that's good." Resist this strategy. Concepts are hard enough to create. Vomitting out several at a time just guarantees that none are receiving the thought (and excitement) that they deserve. It leads to the manager making his decision based on a hook or a world instead of story and character. More often than not, it leads to flat, generic scripts.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Question for repped writers/ and or reps?

            Originally posted by Bunker View Post
            I know a lot of managers do the "Send me 10 log lines a day and we'll find one that's good." Resist this strategy. Concepts are hard enough to create. Vomitting out several at a time just guarantees that none are receiving the thought (and excitement) that they deserve. It leads to the manager making his decision based on a hook or a world instead of story and character. More often than not, it leads to flat, generic scripts.
            Totally agree with this. I HATE this strategy.
            Chicks Who Script podcast

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Question for repped writers/ and or reps?

              Originally posted by Bunker View Post
              Nail down where the script stands. Ask them what the plan moving forward is.

              Then, if they want rewrites, ask yourself, "Is this idea worth pursuing?" If you've lost the love for writing it and they have no love for selling it, you may end up throwing good time after bad performing endless blind rewrites. Some ideas just have something wrong at their core and are more trouble than they're worth to fix.

              Most importantly: Don't let your reps get inside your head. I've had trouble with this myself. Instead of just writing and trusting my instinct, I started thinking too much. Every scene became "Will my manager and agent like this?"

              I know a lot of managers do the "Send me 10 log lines a day and we'll find one that's good." Resist this strategy. Concepts are hard enough to create. Vomitting out several at a time just guarantees that none are receiving the thought (and excitement) that they deserve. It leads to the manager making his decision based on a hook or a world instead of story and character. More often than not, it leads to flat, generic scripts.

              Great post.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Question for repped writers/ and or reps?

                Originally posted by Bunker View Post
                I know a lot of managers do the "Send me 10 log lines a day and we'll find one that's good." Resist this strategy. Concepts are hard enough to create. Vomitting out several at a time just guarantees that none are receiving the thought (and excitement) that they deserve. It leads to the manager making his decision based on a hook or a world instead of story and character. More often than not, it leads to flat, generic scripts.
                this?"
                Completely agree with this.

                Before signing with any rep, make sure to thoroughly ask them what their process is, and explain to them what your process is. Make sure both sides understand what the ideal environment is for you to create your best work.

                I'd never go for the 10 logline-daily-weekly-shotgun approach. I know there are some reps that work like this, and some writers that are okay with it, but it just wouldn't work for me.

                Originally posted by Bunker View Post
                Nail down where the script stands. Ask them what the plan moving forward is.

                Then, if they want rewrites, ask yourself, "Is this idea worth pursuing?"
                I'd do this. Tell them to be blunt.

                Even though you gave them exactly what was outlined, they probably just didn't love the execution. They might not be able to pinpoint exactly why, but if you ask them to be blunt, they should be able to be straight with you about whether or not they're ever willing to send it out (in its current form or with rewrites).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Question for repped writers/ and or reps?

                  I'm still confused why a pleasant conversation left you thinking they all hate the script, but maybe I just missed something. My team ain't shy about telling me when they're not into something.

                  I also don't understand why the agents didn't want you to find a manager. I've never run into that. It means less work for them, and that your stuff will be vetted before it reaches them. Agents like that, and it's no $ out of their pocket.

                  As far as advice, listen to Bunker.
                  https://twitter.com/DavidCoggeshall
                  http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1548597/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Question for repped writers/ and or reps?

                    Before you scrap it or start a page one rewrite I think you've got to find out how they really feel. Did they say the liked it but didn't love it enough to send it out? I get the whole sugar coating rep things. I told my guys from day one I don't want that. If it doesn't work or isn't good -- tell me. End of story.

                    Just call them up and straight up ask them, do you think this is something we can send out? If not, why? I think if you're open that the truth will not hurt your feelings then they are more willing to tell you.

                    I told my agent a while back I wanted all feedback on my meetings, good, bad or indifferent because if I don't know what I'm doing wrong, how will I know what to change? So one day I had a blah meeting and he called me and was like, "Okay so I don't normally do this with all my clients but I feel like you and I have a different relationship and you can handle this but they said..."

                    Had I not told him how I wanted to be handle up front I don't think he would have ever told me what they said in that way. He probably would have came up with a nice version or just shrugged it off as it wasn't meant to be because there is a certain rapport to keep between rep and client most of the time. You don't want to beat your client down with negative thoughts or feedback but I wonder sometimes if it's needed more than it's given for a reality check...

                    Anyways, don't be afraid to ask questions. If you're afraid to ask either side of your reps, that says something about the relationship, new or not.

                    Good luck.
                    Quack.

                    Writer on a cable drama.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Question for repped writers/ and or reps?

                      Originally posted by Garfield View Post
                      So folks I gotta ask, is this normal?
                      Welcome to DDP. Now that's out of the way, no -- that is not normal. I would have a 1-on-1 call with your agent and see where he really stands. If you don't want to have the tough conversation, take his temperature on the market for the material (you're offering him a way out if he waffles here).

                      Originally posted by Bunker View Post
                      I know a lot of managers do the "Send me 10 log lines a day and we'll find one that's good." Resist this strategy. Concepts are hard enough to create. Vomitting out several at a time just guarantees that none are receiving the thought (and excitement) that they deserve. It leads to the manager making his decision based on a hook or a world instead of story and character. More often than not, it leads to flat, generic scripts.
                      This is absolutely 100% correct. It sounds like you won't do this, but I can't see how it's conducive to good writing. Before I was a writer, we had to pitch ideas (different field altogether) and we always pitched three at a time. It was so we were still invested to all 3 ideas, but not married to them. If they want you to pitch ideas, I think 3 at a time is the way to go. I know a prominent studio that does something similar in house (it might be 4 or 5 though).
                      "Write every day. Don't quit. The rest is all bullshit." - Brian Koppelman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Question for repped writers/ and or reps?

                        I see a version of this question a lot, and my answer is consistent.

                        Some context. I know a lot of writers. I talk to a lot of writers. We all have agents, many have managers.

                        With very, very rare exception, none of us give two squirrel balls what our agents or managers think about our screenplays.

                        What we WANT is for these people to:

                        1. Sell our work
                        2. Get us in rooms with buyers, directors and actors
                        3. Package our work with filmmakers and performers
                        4. Negotiate the best deals possible for us

                        So Garfield, rather than stare at the tea leaves of the conversation you had with your representatives, ask yourself this question: "What do I think about the screenplay I just wrote?"

                        If you feel it's a great foot forward and you're ready for them to go out and kill for you, tell them that.

                        If you feel there are important improvements you must make-- not want to make, but MUST make... you feel them in your bones-- then make those improvements.

                        Agents and managers motivate their clients to create work they can then sell.

                        Agents and managers are not known for their taste in screenplays, their insightful notes, their grasp of character or dramatic structure.

                        They are known for their ability to know what sold yesterday. Not today, not tomorrow. Yesterday.

                        They are known for their ability to connect a seller with a buyer.

                        They are known for their ability to group like-minded artists together in a team that becomes more than the sum of its parts.

                        That's it.

                        Stop caring what they have to say about your script. It doesn't matter.

                        Make a choice about what you want to do, and then tell them what your choice is and why, and then when you're ready, tell them to promote you and your script. Tell them who you think should be reading it and why.

                        None of this will matter a damn if the script is less than very, very good.

                        But if it's very, very good, then hopefully your representatives will get a chance to do the jobs they're actually qualified to do, as enumerated above.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Question for repped writers/ and or reps?

                          Craig,
                          Can I have your permission to quote this in its entirety - anywhere & anytime?

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                          • #14
                            Re: Question for repped writers/ and or reps?

                            Granted.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Question for repped writers/ and or reps?

                              Incredibly helpful and insightful post, Craig. Thank you!

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