Frustratingly unmarketable.

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  • #46
    Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

    The people who told you these concepts were unmarketable -- did they make the comment after reading the script? Or after simply reading the logline?
    Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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    • #47
      Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

      Two producers and one rep read the scripts and said basically the same thing. Nice story - never sell it. Too niche.

      I have a read going on now with an agency. Probably will be a while before I hear from them - if ever. Although i did talk to the guy and he said he'd read it.
      We gain our innocence by taking yours.

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      • #48
        Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

        Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
        "If it can't be done in a non-convoluted way, then again, you probably have more of a problem with your story than you do with your logline."

        I need to clarify that it isn't my loglines that are the problem. I get reads and get good reactions even from sub-par loglines.

        The problem is the stories themselves being "unmarketable". And again it isn't because they are poorly written - not that I'm a perfect writer or anything.

        I think the one comment I read that sticks is direct marketing to an indy producer for my specific idea and not neccassarily genre slot.
        Okay, got it. And I believe you.

        This love story in particular though seems like it has a chance with some tweaking. If you go with an old geezer, can the woman be younger? Could it even get into Blame it on Rio or Stealing Beauty territory? Obviously, you would be dealing with very different isues then, but you would also be adding quite a bit of spice to the story. Even old geezers (and I'm pretty much one, too, at this point) rarely want to watch other old geezers fall in love on screen.

        Then if you have a father dying (and let's face it, we're all going to be thinking this young girl has father issues anyway), you're adding another layer of interesting stuff to play off of. And if you are able to craft it in such a way where we recognize the couple's love but we also realize that it's not to be acted on because of social taboos or what have you, you have a chance at creating something very special.

        Obviously I haven't read your stuff, so I could be completely wrong, but just based on your posts, I wonder if you are actually pushing the envelope with your choices as far as they can go and have explored all the possible avenues. That's not to suggest that you need to SHOCK us with something ridiculous, but it better not be middle of the road either.

        What if it was a younger guy in his 30s that gets fired or whatever, chucks it all to become a pilot and somehow finds himself in love with a woman pilot in her 50s? Then he has to deal with her father dying and maybe he's only on the cusp of dealing with that in a mature way. Can you see how something like that could be compelling to more people than a couple of people in their 50s going at it? And can you see how a logline for something like that nearly writes itself?

        Sounds like you've got the chops, you just need to push yourself out of your comfort zone.
        On Twitter @DeadManSkipping

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        • #49
          Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

          "If you go with an old geezer, can the woman be younger"

          The girl is 34. She was adopted at 12 by a loving black man and his wife who have known her since she was born. Her biological father and he flew tankers in Vietnam and her real father left it in his will should anything happen, that she go to him. Her parents were killed in a car crash when she was twelve. She doesn't have father issues as she loves him very much.Her problem is people she loves leaving her which she fears with the protag.

          You'd have to read it to understand. Sorry for my shitty grammar. I'm at my day job.
          Last edited by AE35-Unit; 10-22-2012, 07:39 AM.
          We gain our innocence by taking yours.

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          • #50
            Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

            Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
            I'm a whore for two things: Making a name for myself and the money. Even if it's only a little of both.
            Here, you're tall and proud.

            Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
            Know what a producer said who read it? - "I like it. Can you make the airplane crash?"
            Here, you're almost blaming the producer for wanting you to whore.

            Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
            ...this story is just a simple romance about two people finding love again.
            You could just add a little light-aircraft crash under one of your big change scenes. Before the crash, she's not so hot for him. After he pulls her out of the burning wreckage, she is.
            Story Structure 1
            Story Structure 2
            Story Structure 3

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            • #51
              Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

              "After he pulls her out of the burning wreckage, she is."

              Yeah I'm a whore but also a pilot. You don't lightly crash a Cessna, it burst into flames, and you walk away. Sorry. This is aviation themed and no pilot would ever believe that.
              We gain our innocence by taking yours.

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              • #52
                Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
                "After he pulls her out of the burning wreckage, she is."

                Yeah I'm a whore but also a pilot. You don't lightly crash a Cessna, it burst into flames, and you walk away. Sorry. This is aviation themed and no pilot would ever believe that.
                Fair enough.

                Just trying to help.

                What about a low-flying, flameless crash. As you're taking off.
                Story Structure 1
                Story Structure 2
                Story Structure 3

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                • #53
                  Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                  there is a scene where he almost loses control of the plane during a stall procedure. She slaps his headset off and commands him to let go. She recovers the plane. When they get down she chews him a new one and then we're off and running on the relationship. That's enough.

                  Again this story isn't about him getting his pilots license. The aviation backdrop is a vehicle.
                  We gain our innocence by taking yours.

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                  • #54
                    Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                    "If people wanted to see people in their forties( or fifties) they don't go to the movies. They'd stay home and look at their parents."

                    -The Big Picture

                    They tell you to write a great script. That's like weaving a tapestry with interconnecting threads woven meticulously through a narrative.

                    Then some producer comes to you with a plane crash patch and expects you to stitch it in there somewhere.

                    That's not how tapestries are made. That's quilt work.

                    But quiltwork is what the industry is, producers CEs, story people trying to justify their salaries by giving you plane crash patches to incorporate into your story.

                    Watch the Big Picture, about a directors journey to the bowels of Hollywoods studio system. They tell him to change his characters ages, colorize the concept, infuse fifteen to twenty pop hits and slowly Nick, the writer/director begins to lose his way.

                    He stopped listening to his instincts, the ones that led to his contest win and deferred to a panel of chimps, throwing their crap,( based on trends, preconceived notions and an unwillingness to respect his vision in lieu of their own personal glory )on his story. That's Hollywood.

                    Write what you feel strongly about. Stick to your guns if you're sure they're firing . Or try to quilt together some unholy monstrosity which will more than likely throw children and all narrative logic and any semblance of artistic integrity on your part down a water well.
                    Last edited by halloweenjak; 10-22-2012, 08:17 AM.

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                    • #55
                      Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                      Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
                      Two producers and one rep read the scripts and said basically the same thing. Nice story - never sell it. Too niche.

                      I have a read going on now with an agency. Probably will be a while before I hear from them - if ever. Although i did talk to the guy and he said he'd read it.
                      Sounds like you have an execution problem. If the scripts were fantastic, regardless of being "Indie" or "Niche" or what have you, someone probably would have said "I loved it, but too tough, what else do you have?" Or, if it was really, really, good, then a good producer would have said "Really tough, but I love it, let's figure out how to get it done."

                      Of course, you may have gotten reads from people who aren't great and don't have the balls to get behind something difficult.

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                      • #56
                        Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                        The romance might be a good script for TV. You know, I'm the exact female market for a story like this yet the truth is I'm sort of tiring of these tales. Not that there's anything wrong with your story, it's simply because my tastes have changed.

                        For example, Eat, Pray, Love (was on TV this weekend), lovely settings, Julia Roberts was fine, but I had an "eh" reaction. These types of "finding yourself" stories all seem "eh" to me. And this seems to be my opinion no matter what the age of the protag.

                        I'm wondering if the state of the world has impacted the tastes of the market and that's why you're getting that reaction. Or, maybe it's just me. Maybe I think harder on the state of the world than the mass market. I don't know.

                        As for the other two logs, I personally felt I've seen these movies before. That's no reflection on your writing. But sometimes what used to be high concept has been so overdone it's become low concept. And I say this as a viewer making decisions on what to see in the theater, not as a writer.
                        Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                        • #57
                          Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                          If you don't want to add a plane crash, don't add a plane crash. But the note about adding a plane crash is there for a reason. If you think there's any merit in this producer's opinion, you need to find the note behind the note. Usually if you get a note asking you to add something like a plane crash, it means there's not enough drama in your script. It's probably on the boring side. So in the absence of a scene like a plane crash, you need something to add some tension and excitement.

                          Even drama scripts have exciting, tension-filled scenes. Look at Argo. It's a master class in building tension in a dramatic setting.

                          Try finding the dramatic irony against the ticking clock.
                          Chicks Who Script podcast

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                          • #58
                            Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                            Originally posted by halloweenjak View Post
                            Suggesting the protagonist crash the plane is an idiotic note if it has nothing to do with the story.

                            It's the mindset of someone who just wants to sell popcorn and fill seats and disregards the writers theme, his reason for writing the story and the protagonists journey.

                            You don't just add a plane crash.

                            That's like saying people love chocolate why not throw some chocolate into that soup.

                            It's moronic and disrespectful of the writer. But in a business that doesn't respect the writer, not surprising.

                            Everything in a story has to make sense. If his competency is at issue then a plane crash might work but it seems evident that's not the case.
                            I think if you're focusing on crashing a plane then you're missing the point of the note. I dunno, I could be way off base, but the way I read the note (even though it's short and direct) is the producer is perhaps saying the story needs more drama or more conflict. Salt and pepper to the appropriate genre. Put more on the line. Doesn't have to be a plane crash if it's a romance. But how is the romance put at risk? Watch how it's handled in "Always". Richard Dreyfuss and Holly Hunter learning to let go of each other and for her to move on with her life. Effing fantastic film.
                            life happens
                            despite a few cracked pots-
                            and random sunlight

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                            • #59
                              Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                              Originally posted by asjah8 View Post
                              I think if you're focusing on crashing a plane then you're missing the point of the note. I dunno, I could be way off base, but the way I read the note (even though it's short and direct) is the producer is perhaps saying the story needs more drama or more conflict. Salt and pepper to the appropriate genre. Put more on the line. Doesn't have to be a plane crash if it's a romance. But how is the romance put at risk? Watch how it's handled in "Always". Richard Dreyfuss and Holly Hunter learning to let go of each other and for her to move on with her life. Effing fantastic film.
                              If the guy is a pilot then conventional wisdom suggests the airplane becomes a metaphor, him being too grounded, unable to emotionally take off, or something regarding the crashing and burning of his writing career, that's a good note.

                              Saying you might need a plane crash to wake the audience up is moronic.

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                              • #60
                                Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                                "Saying you might need a plane crash to wake the audience up is moronic."

                                Enough with the plane crash. The plane doesn't crash nor will it.

                                Waking up the audience is probably more the key.

                                This is a love story not a disaster film. I see the drama aspect and all, but no effing plane crashes. Please. I could have cheaped out on that bullshit in the first draft.
                                We gain our innocence by taking yours.

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