Doing well in too many contests is a red flag for reps?

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  • Doing well in too many contests is a red flag for reps?

    From a summary of an interview with Jake Wagner of Good Fear on reddit:

    The more scripts you have, the worse it is. "When someone is like I have 10 scripts and they all placed in contests, I'm thinking to myself: Then why haven't you been signed yet? Like, there is a catch here. You can't be that good if you have 10 scripts that have placed all over the place. You would have been discovered by now. To me that is a red flag."
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Screenwriti..._of_good_fear/

    Do others agree that reps feel like that?

    To me, something like that could be an interesting problem-solving challenge for the manager -- and that's what a manager is for.

    But someone responded:

    "Most veteran managers aren't like that. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. Extended Time + Large Portfolio = Excess Baggage."

    So basically anyone who's been at this for a while is "damaged goods"... no matter how good they are and no matter how many contests they've won?

    That's depressing as hell... And eye-opening...

    It suggests that plugging away at contests (even if you keep advancing) is futile as a career strategy.

    So what's the solution?

    Take the contests off your resume? Change your name? Hire a front?
    "People who work in Hollywood are the ones who didn't quit." -- Lawrence Kasdan

    Please visit my website and blog: www.lauridonahue.com.

  • #2
    Re: Doing well in too many contests is a red flag for reps?

    Well, you're focusing on contest results as a liability, and even # of scripts as a liability, in the minds of these people. But this is precisely why by and large I've ignored reps for the last several years, and focus directly on those who make the movies.

    So, with my 50+ scripts, I have to be the most exaggerated example of what you're talking about, yet I continue to find and create new openings and ways of doing things. Yes, my scripts should speak for themselves, but to break in (whatever that means to each of us, because it doesn't mean one thing and nor should it) you should, or have to, think outside the box. We wouldn't have Google or Microsoft or FB or any of your favorite "things" if their creators didn't do precisely that.

    As for contests, there was a "great" () post here a short time ago which has thankfully, finally, freed me from ever considering them again. Way way too many possible hi-jinks going on behind-the-scenes. The story in this post is merely one that I hadn't thought of, but I've always had my paranoia cap close at-hand with regard to these 'reader' issues anyway:

    http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...347#post964347

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Doing well in too many contests is a red flag for reps?

      Seriously.

      Idk, I feel I'm getting my own red flags from that guys attitude on discovering talent.

      I do somewhat agree that a writer doesn't need a huge backlog of scripts to be a sellable commodity. But in a business as wildly subjective as this one I don't think it's fair for a rep to say "Well, this writer wrote a bunch of scripts and they sure, were all well received ... but none of them sold so the writer must suck".

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Doing well in too many contests is a red flag for reps?

        Keep in mind, JW's a bit of a d!ck.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Doing well in too many contests is a red flag for reps?

          Originally posted by docgonzo View Post
          Keep in mind, JW's a bit of a d!ck.
          That made me laugh. I wonder if he feels the same way about reps?

          You know, the more clients a rep has, the worse he must be. "When a rep is like, I have ten writers and they're all writing, I'm thinking to myself: Then why haven't you sold all their work yet? In multi-bid auctions? For millions of dollars? Like, there is a catch here. How can a rep be that good if they have ten clients and all their clients haven't won Oscars yet? And don't drive Beemers? Or own vacation houses? To me that is a red flag. Or you know, that rep is just a d!ck."

          I don't think reps realize how hard it is to even get reads. People enter contests for leverage of any kind, in order to get reads. From reps like him.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Doing well in too many contests is a red flag for reps?

            also highly contest-dependent (imo). placing or winning in Nicholl/Austin should lead to interest from reps -- but even that is no sure thing, depending on where the winner might happen to be living or whether the script itself is marketable or calling-card level

            but multiple QF and SF in a bunch of no-name film festival or scammy-type contests feels amateurish to me. not going to move the needle with a rep and just more evidence that the writer isn't ready yet anyway

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Doing well in too many contests is a red flag for reps?

              i've listened to several podcasts for managers over at Scripts & Scribes, check em out, they're very enlightening.

              what managers are looking for is something exceptional. not just good writing, good characters and an emotional story. you need to have a piece of work that is a stand out piece-- something that's great and risky and unique and commercial.

              if you're writing the same kind of movies that have already been made, then you're not unique. you are doing what everyone else has done. and they probably have a client that already can do what you (i'm speaking generally here not directed at anyone personally) do and they have a commitment already to a client that can do the very same thing.

              a smart manager is the manager that has writers that are "different" from each other.

              and i don't think that the number of scripts you have is a negative, unless they're all the same thing, well, then yeah, that can be a problem, because you've already shown you can do THAT thing-- why repeat it?

              i think it was Richard Freeman at Code that said, write that unproduceable pilot, you can get a lot of work off it if it's amazing.

              look at the annual Black List, the ones that aren't biopics, some of them are pretty unique: Blur, The Beast, Harry's All Night Hamburgers, Cobweb, The Worst Guy of All Time (And the Girl Who Came to Kill Him. i mean, these are unique. something that makes me say, i wanna read THAT.

              and also, now, i think a feature writer should also consider writing a pilot as well. just one opinion. standing out from the pack seems to be the message.
              "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Doing well in too many contests is a red flag for reps?

                - Charging a fee to read is a red flag
                - Having too many clients is a red flag
                - Also being a producer is a red flag
                - Not being associated with/having too few films in the "filmography- tab on your imdb page is a red flag
                - Imdb is the great equalizer, the rest is all hot air
                - And contest placements don't necessarily mean anything, because so many readers don't even know what they're looking at, or get hung up on crap like artistic formatting choices.

                So, whatever...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Doing well in too many contests is a red flag for reps?

                  Ha! Funny responses...

                  But, yeah, I definitely think reps see us this way. The fact that I've been with CAA, Resolution, Gotham, new place. The fact that I've developed with huge people and never had anything made. It all HURTS ME.

                  ...That's not a good look to them because they're like "with all that **** you still haven't gotten something made? WTF!? You must suck!"

                  CLOSE + TIME = HURTS YOU in this town.

                  Hence, yup they gotta see you as NEW. I'll pretend all my other scripts don't exist. Whatever. The sh!t that sold/developed and didn't get made doesn't help me, it hurts me. So I ain't gonna mention it.

                  In truth... I think saying I used to be at CAA hurts me ("WHAT??? Even THEY couldn't get you a job!!!???"). I would never mention that in person.

                  ALWAYS:

                  "I'm brand new... this is my first script. I know nothing about Hollywood."
                  Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Doing well in too many contests is a red flag for reps?

                    Even the biggest contests? A lot of screenwriters gradually move up the ranks, placing higher and higher on these contests. Even one of his biggest clients fits the description of this - having a bunch of contest placing scripts before they hit with that one piece of material that seemed to light the town on fire. I am just trying to follow in their footsteps, placing at the exact same placement in the exact same contests. I am hearing conflicting views on this. I heard someone who used to judge for one of these tell me that it's great if you have several high placing scripts because it shows you can write at a high level consistently (not just a fluke).

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                    • #11
                      Re: Doing well in too many contests is a red flag for reps?

                      A lot of these reps have nitpicky rules like don't tell me that you have a script in this genre, then another genre, etc. One well known show creator said that a rep just lost interest when he told them he had several scripts in different genres. Well, just a little while later, this writer went on to sell his show to Steven Spielberg's company.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Doing well in too many contests is a red flag for reps?

                        I think it just depends on the rep and what their personal RULE is.

                        I know my ex would prefer (if you're reading, ex, settle down) the writer be fresh and new.

                        But, I wouldn't super worry about it. What hurts you WAY more is if you get close with a bunch'a sh!t that never gets made. Contests? Meh... I don't think they really care. If you're already a known slut around town who can't get sh!t MADE? Yeah, that's a problem. Contests wins, not so much. They've likely never heard of you, even if you've won Nicholl (mid-level and above do not give a fukk about Nicholl. Swear! A manager they trust sends them the script and swears by it? Or producer etc? That's all they'll consider.)

                        Real convo...

                        ME: Do you ever read the Nicholl winner?

                        EX: Nope...

                        ME: Why not?

                        EX: Because I don't have to...


                        Feel me?
                        Last edited by GucciGhostXXX; 08-13-2019, 02:25 PM.
                        Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Doing well in too many contests is a red flag for reps?

                          Originally posted by GucciGhostXXX View Post
                          Ha! Funny responses...

                          But, yeah, I definitely think reps see us this way. The fact that I've been with CAA, Resolution, Gotham, new place. The fact that I've developed with huge people and never had anything made. It all HURTS ME.

                          ...That's not a good look to them because they're like "with all that **** you still haven't gotten something made? WTF!? You must suck!"

                          CLOSE + TIME = HURTS YOU in this town.

                          Hence, yup they gotta see you as NEW. I'll pretend all my other scripts don't exist. Whatever. The sh!t that sold/developed and didn't get made doesn't help me, it hurts me. So I ain't gonna mention it.

                          In truth... I think saying I used to be at CAA hurts me ("WHAT??? Even THEY couldn't get you a job!!!???"). I would never mention that in person.

                          ALWAYS:

                          "I'm brand new... this is my first script. I know nothing about Hollywood."
                          Yes, this. That is what my other thread was about "formerly repped..." Basically how do I sell myself as "new" and do/I ever mention old success or that I've done this before or wait until years from now...

                          This is advice I kept giving friends and foes and lovers and ex lovers and pandas and girls and boys on this board. That less is more. 1 script at a time. Some things help, but most of the town does not care about the black list scores or Nicholl placement. Or that you wrote 4 other scripts... sometimes it can hurt you. So pretend you're new and they are discovering you. It almost makes sense.

                          They want a virgin writer to be sacrificed to the Hollywood writing gods, not a day time hooker.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Doing well in too many contests is a red flag for reps?

                            I think, in general, in any industry that's highly competitive, the deciders look for reasons to rule out contenders. So for this guy too many contests is a way to rule people out, for others it's genre, others, maybe your zip code.

                            It's not logical but it's how some thin the herd.
                            Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Doing well in too many contests is a red flag for reps?

                              I actually clicked on the interview and he said he read the top 10 scripts in like 7 contests... so he's talking out of both sides of his mouth FYI because he's pro contest more than other mangers are.

                              Nicholls
                              Script Pipeline
                              Stage32
                              Austin
                              BlueCat
                              Launch Pad (Tracking Board)
                              Page

                              Just saying, like most people, he doesn't even know what he wants.

                              And I don't even know what Script Pipeline is...

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