Would like to discuss "Shakespear in Love"

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  • #31
    Re: Would like to discuss "Shakespear in Love"

    Read more carefully, SC (and I really do think this thread has outlived its usefulness): the teacher who knocked me down a grade for misspelling his name became my mentor--that's many, many years of deep friendship and learning. He was the one who taught me how the publishing system worked, so when I finally became a published author I knew how to play the game, and gained the respect of the agents who were weary of dealing with amateurs.

    The Beat poets were mostly all extremely well-educated. That's why they could break the rules. Being part of the counter-culture doesn't make one less a professional (in fact it was hardly a "flowers-in-your-hair" time; I rubbed shoulders with revolutionaries, drug-dealers and people with guns, not hippies or flower-children).

    But I loved teaching, I truly liked my students and I enjoyed each and every day I spent with them. I got to teach eighth-graders "Hamlet" and short stories by Tolstoy; I taught tenth-graders Virginia Woolf and Graham Greene. I introduced Nabokov and Evelyn Waugh to ninth-graders.

    I was merely (Jesus, why are we still on this?!) pointing out that if he or she submitted a paper with Shakespeare's name misspelled she might be in trouble. I did it gently, not sarcastically (I'm not by nature a sarcastic person), and frankly this is a screenwriting forum. One needs to develop a thick skin to become any kind of writer. This isn't a bad place to start.

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    • #32
      Re: Would like to discuss "Shakespear in Love"

      "Which is why my graduates went on to Wesleyan, Yale, Princeton, and so on."

      - Don't stab yourself in the foot with your own tool.

      There is so much to learn from so many here; particularly you, Jake. Just point the "e" out. No need to lecture.

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      • #33
        Re: Would like to discuss "Shakespear in Love"

        Ladies and gentlemen,
        let's PLEASE return to the op' subject.

        Thank you.
        A talent for drama is not a talent for writing, but is an ability to articulate human relationships.
        Gore Vidal

        "Aisatsu Yori Ensatsu"
        Money is better than compliments.


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        • #34
          Re: Would like to discuss "Shakespear in Love"

          Jake - I like you and I've learned a lot from the things you share here.

          And I promise this is my last post on this subject. Honest.

          However, since this is a writing site and the thread does touch upon how one's writing can reflect poorly upon them (spelling errors specifically, but tone could also be used as an example) I must say, IMO, your first post ...

          Originally posted by Jake Schuster View Post
          Before you sit down to take that exam or write the paper, you might want to make sure you spell "Shakespeare" correctly. As a teacher I would've cut the grade down by a whole point--i.e. "D" to "F"--for that kind of careless error.

          Then, if you like, we'll try to convince you that the movie was completely fictional and bore little or no resemblance to the life of William Shakespeare as we know it from contemporary evidence or from the origins of his plays.
          ... is not gentle in tone. At least not to me and at least one other poster.

          Writing - something I too passionately love and respect -- is about communication.

          In the above, you communicated a particularly gruff, judgmental, authoritarian tone. And I wasn't the only one who felt it's sting.

          However, in your most recent post you point out your intention was to be gentle. Well, as one writer to another I'd have to say, if that was your intention, you missed the mark and I'd suggest a rewrite.





          Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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          • #35
            Re: Would like to discuss "Shakespear in Love"

            Um... When I'm the teacher, I am the authority. This is what students expect you to be, not some "pal" or "buddy" who chums them along to some mediocre final grade. Teachers can be brutal. I worked my class like a stand-up comedian, so I was merely tough, and when my students (now parents of their own schoolchildren) earned an "A" or a "B" they really knew it was worth something. As I said, some went on to become respected writers, educators and, in one case, the woman who ran the biggest call-girl business in the world.

            I'd say that's not too shoddy a record, eh?

            And this, mon amie, is my last post in this thread. Let's get back to "The Departed".

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            • #36
              Re: Would like to discuss "Shakespear in Love"

              As for your teacher Jake, I would like to point out a quote that I've used often in my life and I think it applies to this thread and your story.

              "He sounds like a guy who is impressed with his own importance." the radical one

              The irony of this should not be lost on the fact that he's simply an English teacher.

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              • #37
                Re: Would like to discuss "Shakespear in Love"

                Originally posted by DMNY View Post
                Ladies and gentlemen,
                let's PLEASE return to the op' subject.
                I would like to offer a discussion in verse of Gwyneth Paltrow's breasts, as portrayed in "SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE" ...

                But I'd have to rhyme
                ' ... sweet, succulent round as the Forbidden fruit ..."
                with
                ' ... dew it.'

                And in the presence of even the name "Shakespeare" that would be Tragic.
                sigpic
                "As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world -
                that is the myth of the atomic age - as in being able to remake ourselves."
                -Mahatma Gandhi.

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                • #38
                  Re: Would like to discuss "Shakespear in Love"

                  Originally posted by theradicalone View Post
                  As for your teacher Jake, I would like to point out a quote that I've used often in my life and I think it applies to this thread and your story.

                  "He sounds like a guy who is impressed with his own importance." the radical one

                  The irony of this should not be lost on the fact that he's simply an English teacher.
                  My teacher--my late teacher, I should add, for as I said he died recently--was a gentleman, a truly gentle man, who was not only one of the youngest fiction writers to be published in a national magazine (Esquire, when he was 19), but who went on to be an internationally-respected writer. He was the funniest man I've ever met. But he was also a strict teacher (that's why I went to college, so I could learn), who taught me a lot about literature, the novel in particular, and publishing.

                  And he became my daughter's godfather.

                  He was also the least self-important man I've ever known. But I think he made an excellent point in docking my grade over a perfectly good "A-" paper; that I should at least know the man's name after three months. And that writing was a serious thing, an activity that demanded care, meticulousness and that should never ever be sloppy. And ever after, my copyeditors have always told me that my work was very easy to read--it required almost no revisions or corrections.

                  So what he did was hardly selfish; he passed along to me a real sense of respect for him, for writing, and it's stood me well ever since.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Would like to discuss "Shakespear in Love"

                    jake, i respect the help youve given me and others here. and i get that misspelled words are a huge pet peeve of yours.

                    honestly.

                    but this is not the 1st time a thread has been derailed b/c ppl found you too abrasive and even patronizing w/ your "editing" (remember amanda's "memorium"?).

                    i agree, we should go back to discussing the OP's question. just like we shouldve simply given amanda a huge congrats for getting her movie made.

                    as a writer, and a teacher to boot, you should know that tone is important. certainly more important than spelling correctly.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Would like to discuss "Shakespear in Love"

                      For the first time in my life, I must say Qaz is right. Amanda should have been given a "way to go" instead of an eigth grade lit correction. That has bothered me for weeks(agreeing with Qaz will bother me for months...)

                      SC111: you're posts are dead on, and amongst my favorite on this board. Please keep at it.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Would like to discuss "Shakespear in Love"

                        Originally posted by seh View Post
                        For the first time in my life, I must say Qaz is right.
                        you just never could suck it in and admit it before.


                        but this is progress.


                        good work.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Would like to discuss "Shakespear in Love"

                          Okie Dokey! It's fixed.

                          Now I really want to get back to discussing the in's and out's of this movie. I think the argueing is useless.

                          The topic of this thread is what needs to be focused on here!

                          I thought of certain points of this film, but didn't even give the humor in the film much thought. It's amazing how different perspectives can be such a benefit. I think I need to read over it again. There's probably a lot that I missed.

                          Hopefully more of you can share your thoughts on the makeup of this film (character, structure, plot, etc...).

                          Jennifer

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                          • #43
                            Re: Would like to discuss "Shakespear in Love"

                            I had trouble buying the idea that Will's love affair with Gwyneth (I know, I know, I'm mixing character names and actor names, but I forget her character's name) would fuel his writing. I suppose it might work that way for some people, but it certainly never has for me, so for me it was a stretch. I figured he would write more when he was unhappy with his life and less when his life was going well (since that's what I do).

                            Anybody want to weigh in on that aspect of it?
                            "Your intuition knows what to write, so get out of the way.-
                            ― Ray Bradbury

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                            • #44
                              Re: Would like to discuss "Shakespear in Love"

                              Originally posted by Ravenlocks View Post
                              I had trouble buying the idea that Will's love affair with Gwyneth (I know, I know, I'm mixing character names and actor names, but I forget her character's name) would fuel his writing. I suppose it might work that way for some people, but it certainly never has for me, so for me it was a stretch. I figured he would write more when he was unhappy with his life and less when his life was going well (since that's what I do).

                              Anybody want to weigh in on that aspect of it?
                              Well made some notes and the name is Thomas Kent/Viola. I think overall the character Will was a real tragedy king (after all "Romeo and Juliet"). I think Will was writing more from a perspective of the emotions these women fueled up in him. 1st Rosalyn (who was already with Burbage) and then Viola who is going to marry Wessex (this arranged by the family and not by Viola's love for Wessex).

                              I think that's pretty intense emotion Will had to face and maybe the only way he could release it fully was through his play. Then there was the nuttiness of the general drama of those around him.

                              I've thought more about the humor aspect of the film and it's pretty funny really. The competition between the two theaters left 2 adults acting like 5- year-olds. That led to the set being destroyed and feathers flying all over the stage. For some reason that Fennyman (the loan collector) was so over the top and crazy, along with being naive that I had to laugh.

                              For me any kind of passion, deep emotion, or irony can fuel me to write. It just has to be intense. Of course events can be intense also, but there has to be depth of characters who are involved in the events.

                              Jennifer

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                              • #45
                                Re: Would like to discuss "Shakespear in Love"

                                Jennifer

                                I think the plot thin at best, and was underwhelmed by it as a comedy but what I really got out of SIL as a writer was the dialogue. It is superb. If you look through the script (which I bought for this very reason) there are no long monologues, or even blocks of dialogue. It is snappy, atmospheric and pertinent to the era. That is Stoppard's gift.

                                V
                                Si vis me flere dolendum est primum ipsi tibi
                                If you wish me to weep, you yourself must first feel grief.

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