The Raven... uh, ok.

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  • #16
    Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

    Originally posted by 12916studios View Post
    Personally, I think that was brilliantly directed (the cinematography was also quite good). Sure, it was a simple story (the little dialogue probably could have been better too) but I want to know more about the world. It's definitely one of the better action/scifi shorts I have seen. Really, this seemed like a vehicle to show the director's skills -- and it does show them.
    I thought the pacing and tension screamed "amateur" personally. But thanks for contributing without labeling me as jealous.

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    • #17
      Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

      Originally posted by jboffer View Post
      Someone tell me, what in that short makes it feature-length quality?
      All of it.

      Jboffer, I'm having a hard time understanding why you didn't appreciate this clip. The concept of a fugitive with telekinetic powers dodging a robotic police force? Seems solid enough to me, providing there is a good story. And I cannot fairly judge the story because I've only seen a six-minute clip.

      And what a clip! Assuming that they did the shoot over a weekend, you can be sure the cast and crew put in long hours on both days -- probably without pay. And that was only the beginning. The CGI effects were masterfully done, especially the motion control work where the digital images had to be synchronized with the jerky camera movements. I thought that could only be done on a large budget. Apparently not.

      As for the originality of the robots, the model for Robocop, the Star Wars robots, and scores of others actually dates back to the early sixties. This is when actual robots (such as the Man Amplifer) were developed for industrial use. These designs inspired most of the Sci-Fi robots that followed, and frankly there's only so much you can do with robots from a creative standpoint. I think the ones depicted here are very convincing.

      So I must say, I'm a little jealous, too. I don't know how Ricardo de Montreuil got the resources to pull this together, but he did it. Regardless of how good/or bad this movie turns out, he has a bright future ahead of him. And that should be an inspiration to all of us.
      "THIMK." - Amomynous

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      • #18
        Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

        Originally posted by jboffer View Post
        Look, seriously, I'm not ready for Hollywood, and I'm not pretending I am. I have three scripts, and they all suck. I'm not jealous. I've only been screenwriting for a year, and with how busy am I with work, I'v barely even been one the last 4 months. I do not care who gets money.

        But I do care about quality movies, and the fact this could inspire a feature is nauseating.

        The fact I like to write does not mean I don't get to be a critic, and it has nothing to do with jealousy.

        You know that short was pointless and derivative.
        Hi Hater.
        "I was dreamin' when I wrote this, forgive me if it goes astray." - Prince

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        • #19
          Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

          Looks great, story not so much. That about sums it up doesn't it.

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          • #20
            Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

            I'm not sure how writers could possibly be excited about this sort of thing becoming a trend.

            If you put together a tech demo, which is essentially what this short is, you've demonstrated an ability to produce relatively high-quality digital effects on a small budget. To my mind, studios/prodcos should be looking at this and thinking, "we could use this guy to do compositing." They shouldn't be thinking, "wow, let's expand this into a feature!"

            It's like hiring someone to design a skyscraper because he's a really good bricklayer. Sure, architects are pounding on your door with completed blueprints, but you just can't stop thinking about how amazing your neighbor's new brick driveway looked.

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            • #21
              Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

              Short films like these jack a million hits on the web in a matter of days. They go viral. Because you don't see them all that often. Particularly if they're well shot and done on a shoestring.

              So they're bound to land the attention of industry peeps -- along with other similarly well done low budget projects like PANIC ATTACK, ALIVE IN JOBURG, SILENT CITY etc.

              I do some indie filmmaking myself. And I know how hard it is to achieve a professional look on no money (and no talent). The web is rampant with poorly made shorts, most shot well above the budget of RAVEN. Some into tens of thousands of dollars and using hi-end cinema cameras.

              And a lot scream "amateur" after a few frames.

              Once you can make something that stands out from them, then you're going into viral city.

              This is coming from a guy that can probably only land 100 hits on youtube after several weeks.

              So, yeah, I'd be pretty jealous of the RAVEN filmmaker too.

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              • #22
                xx
                Last edited by Writerperson12; 04-25-2023, 06:17 PM.

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                • #23
                  Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

                  Originally posted by Why One View Post
                  Short films like these jack a million hits on the web in a matter of days. They go viral. Because you don't see them all that often. Particularly if they're well shot and done on a shoestring.
                  It looks pretty because they used a RED camera ($100,000, though i'm sure they rented it) and had talented digital effects artist(s). Which means yes, it's more likely to go viral, but per my post above, it makes no sense to gain serious interest in a feature.

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                  • #24
                    Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

                    Originally posted by jboffer View Post
                    Sparrow and Sinnycal, correct. Everyone else, wrong. Dead wrong. Scarily wrong. There's having an opinion, then there's the point where if getting feedback from this board is pointless because everyone is clueless. Are all the sane people hiding away from this thread because they didn't want to get in a fight?
                    You still seem jealous to me.

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                    • #25
                      Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

                      Originally posted by jboffer View Post
                      It looks pretty because they used a RED camera ($100,000, though i'm sure they rented it) and had talented digital effects artist(s). Which means yes, it's more likely to go viral, but per my post above, it makes no sense to gain serious interest in a feature.
                      The RED body costs $17,500 to buy. You can get a kit and some primes set up for under $40,000.

                      Shooting on the RED doesn't guarantee you beautiful pictures. There are plenty of shorts shot on the RED that still look terrible. It's all to do with the talent of the filmmakers.

                      You can look at a short like SIMILO that's shot on the DVX100, and they'll still blow away the visuals of most filmmakers with their hi-end kits.

                      Most filmmakers lament about more money or a better camera -- as if it will automatically make their pictures look good.

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                      • #26
                        Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

                        Originally posted by jboffer View Post
                        Sparrow and Sinnycal, correct. Everyone else, wrong. Dead wrong. Scarily wrong. There's having an opinion, then there's the point where if getting feedback from this board is pointless because everyone is clueless. Are all the sane people hiding away from this thread because they didn't want to get in a fight?
                        Yes, Sparrow and Sinnycal are correct, but that doesn't mean everyone else is wrong. There's no reason to be so one-sided about this. If you didn't see the potential for a good story in this, that's fine. But I did. The wheels are turning even now. Whether or not this young man's story is anything like the one I'm picturing, I really don't know. But based on the effort I've seen thus far, I'd like to find out.

                        The point you're missing here is that whether this guy is a talented writer or not, he's obviously done something right. What is happening right here this very minute is proof of that: We're discussing it. This little thread you started -- perhaps one of many -- is bringing this gifted filmmaker much-needed publicity. Based on that alone, he probably will succeed.

                        So you have "three scripts, and they all suck?" Then why is this guy's sucky script getting so much attention and not yours? The reason is because he is taking a proactive role in making it happen. That is one aspect of this whole screenwriting thing that so many of us are missing. Writing a screenplay, whether it's great or not, is usually not enough. If one isn't going to make the movie oneself, then it is important to associate with people who can. Otherwise you're just sitting on a pile of scripts that are collecting dust. Whether they suck or not.

                        And I still think it's unfair to judge the story when we're not even given the story. This thing is called a "trailer." It may be little more than a tech demo, but it also conveys a fairly good concept. And I'm still interested in seeing how it turns out.
                        "THIMK." - Amomynous

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                        • #27
                          Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

                          For all those words you wrote you're still ignoring the main point that yes it's a mainly just some director's tech demo but maybe they have a good script. All it really proves is that yes they can get together on a weekend and make something that looks like professionals did it but maybe they have a good script. You personally do not like the story concept and neither do I but maybe they have a good script. Yes I am giving them the benefit of the doubt when odds are that their script sucks but maybe they have a good script. Again, had someone looked at ALIVE IN JOBURG with the attitude you're giving this short, DISTRICT 9 might not have been made. So just chill and you can come back and brag about how you were right when they make BATTLEFIELD EARTH.

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                          • #28
                            Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

                            Originally posted by jboffer View Post
                            Actually, over a weekend is pretty cool. If it really was.

                            It wasn't done "over a weekend." They filmed a guy running through streets in a weekend, sure. Wow, that's hard. Then did the labor intensive part--the great digital effects. I'm sure a ton of work went into this.

                            ...to show a guy running away from robots.
                            Have you ever filmed something before?

                            If not, then you have NO idea how long it can take, especially when you are a small time filmmaker with limited resources and even less help. Last year I had to shoot a 30 second short for a class. Not too long, huh?

                            That shoot took three hours -- and that was on a crap quality camera with relatively simple shots.

                            The shots here are complex (the guy also used a RED One), and same of the takes are really intensive (the vault over the trashcan). It's quite difficult to get a moving closeup shot that steadily follows a fast moving object.

                            The shoot for The Raven was done in two days. That is INSANELY impressive given the amount of shots and scenes that comprise it, and means that the crew probably worked an arduous dawn to dusk schedule to get it done.

                            I know I sure am jealous. That director most definitely has a career ahead of him.

                            INT. PINEAPPLE - DAY


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                            • #29
                              Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

                              Originally posted by jboffer View Post
                              Sinnycal is spot on. It's a tech demo. Like I said in my original post, a shiny object. Yes, that's awesome they created great special effects on a small budget. But guess what: digital effects don't cost anything. They aren't hard costs. The cost of digital effects is in the man power. These guys worked for free. If you applied the average hourly rate of someone equally talented, suddenly it's not so surprising what came out. Again, none of this mastery applies to what he'd be hired to do... write and a direct a feature out of this.
                              I was going to mention that, too. You can say, "look what they achieved for just 5000 dollars," but really what they achieved with that 5k was some raw footage of a guy running through alleys.

                              The rest was hours and hours of labor that would be really expensive except that he's doing it himself and not paying himself for his services.

                              To me it'd be like what's-his-face (the composer guy whose wife is an agent and he goes surfing with Bob Villa) writing a score and having someone say, "hey, this is a great score," and then the other exec is all, "and he wrote this whole score for FREE! We usually pay thousands of dollars for that." Followed, naturally, by, "let's expand this baby into a feature." One just doesn't logically follow the other.

                              Although on the off chance that someone somewhere thinks it does, I'm going to upload a few of my award winning drum solos to youtube and see if I can't get a three picture deal out of them.

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                              • #30
                                xxx
                                Last edited by Writerperson12; 04-25-2023, 06:17 PM.

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