Without a character arc?

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  • #16
    Re: Without a character arc?

    Read Keith's article - it is great.

    I prefer to think of this stuff as "emotional conflict" rather than Character Arc, becuase that covers more ground. The reason for an emotional conflict is because it makes a character human and allows the audience to identify with them. It's a doorway into the character for the audience. That character doesn't need to arc, but they need to deal with some emotional conflict that makes them more than a cardboard cutout the writer is moving through the plot.

    I think the main "rule" in screenwriting is to do everything on purpose. So if your character does not have a character arc - that's because this particular story will only work if they do not have a character arc... not because you are a lazy writer or a bad writer and just didn't make the protag human. Anything you do in a screenplay must be on purpose - you did it for a specific reason that you can articulate... when you get into that development meeting and they ask why there's no character arc.

    - Bill
    Free Script Tips:
    http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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    • #17
      Re: Without a character arc?

      Yeah, what Martell just said. I just watched Live Free or Die Hard, and it is a perfect example of this. McLane's daughter and the hacker Farrel both have arcs while McLane is steadfast in going after his goal, while at the same time experiencing an emotional crisis.

      Did I get it right, Bill?
      We're making a movie here, not a film! - Kit Ramsey

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      • #18
        Re: Without a character arc?

        That's a good example, Bill.

        - Bill
        Free Script Tips:
        http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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        • #19
          Re: Without a character arc?

          Last year, I put together a video showcasing Main Characters who do not change, i.e. they don't have the conventional "character arc" as prescribed my McKee and others. I think the key is understanding the difference between characters who grow and characters who change. They should definitely grow, but they can grow by digging their heels in even further.

          I like Bill's thought - you can do whatever you want, as long as there is a purpose to it.
          StoryFanatic - story structure and analysis for screenwriters
          http://storyfanatic.com

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          • #20
            Re: Without a character arc?

            There are plenty of movies where the whole purpose of the story is to show that the protag has a bunch of chances to turn their life around and does not - we call them tragedies.

            There are also movies like in Keith's article where the protagonist is the constant to show the changes around them, or the protag is an unstoppable force or an immovable object - and that creates the conflict. These things are done on purpose as part of the story. And, as in Keith's article - these protags need to be awesome and amazing and charismatic.

            If you do it, you do it for a reason.

            If you tell your story backwards, you do it for a reason.

            - Bill
            Free Script Tips:
            http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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            • #21
              Re: Without a character arc?

              Originally posted by Tsinogatorp Eht View Post
              Are there any ways to write a screenplay without a character arc?
              I can't think of any reason why you would want to.

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              • #22
                Re: Without a character arc?

                Originally posted by Biohazard View Post
                I can't think of any reason why you would want to.

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                • #23
                  Re: Without a character arc?

                  Originally posted by Biohazard View Post
                  I can't think of any reason why you would want to.
                  In the beginning I thought character arcs weren't all that important. Now I do.
                  "I am the story itself; its source, its voice, its music."
                  - Clive Barker, Galilee

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                  • #24
                    Re: Without a character arc?

                    Originally posted by TwoBrad Bradley View Post
                    In the beginning I thought character arcs weren't all that important. Now I do.
                    Funny, I've had almost the opposite conversion.

                    The biggest argument for having a character arc is, in my experience, that you will be asked to add one, no matter how inappropriate it is for the story in question, by a development exec or producer somewhere along the line.

                    (We were asked to add one by an producer in order to land an actress, but ended up landing the actress anyway. The producer then insisted we add one anyway, even though it didn't fit at all with the story we were telling, which was much more of an "arc of awesome" storyline.)

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                    • #25
                      Re: Without a character arc?

                      Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post
                      Funny, I've had almost the opposite conversion.
                      ...
                      (We were asked to add one by an producer in order to land an actress, but ended up landing the actress anyway. The producer then insisted we add one anyway, even though it didn't fit at all with the story we were telling, which was much more of an "arc of awesome" storyline.)
                      You are correct, your way is funnier:

                      In the beginning I always thought character arcs were important to the story. Now I don't.

                      But, seriously, you were associated with a producer who believed you can just "tack on" a character arc to a completed screenplay? Now that's weird, but I'm not surprised.
                      "I am the story itself; its source, its voice, its music."
                      - Clive Barker, Galilee

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                      • #26
                        Re: Without a character arc?

                        The reason I asked was because a reader/manager stated that he did not like the character's arc in Act 2. When I wrote the screenplay, I wasn't focused on making it a typical 3 Act story. Instead, I was trying to craft it to fit Vogler's Hero's Journey structure for screenplays. -- which includes all 12 Stages of the journey (in order), and all 7 archetypes.

                        My Hero begins as a small peasant farmer who is always overshadowed by his powerful, hunter neighbor. When the Hero is called to Adventure, he passes because he's both too cowardly and that he's not violent. Over time, he increases courage, as well as stops being the Hunter's bitch. He goes from taking orders from a neighbor, to leading a whole army. -- Not sure if that is considered an arc or not.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Without a character arc?

                          Originally posted by Tsinogatorp Eht View Post
                          Instead, I was trying to craft it to fit Vogler's Hero's Journey structure for screenplays. .
                          Well, there's your problem right there.

                          (Sorry, but I really really hate Vogler's work. I think its inert, lifeless, and not useful. Of course, YMMV.)

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                          • #28
                            Re: Without a character arc?

                            No -- That's not the problem at all. It is an example. I used Joseph Campbell's monomyth as well, but since he isn't a screenwriter, it's irrelevant.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Without a character arc?

                              Here's a quote from the article I was talking about, an interview with William Mohonan:

                              People change in stories about people changing, not in every story. Not every story is A Christmas Carol. You get this crap about "story- because of these chuckleheads out there running script classes, who really prey on confusion about art and people's genuine desire to learn. It's shameful what they've done to discourse about motion pictures and to film itself. Writers literally get fired in this business because they aren't providing enough "journey- in a story that doesn't call for any. There are no general rules to any sort of writing. Each work has its own inherent rules. You discover them. You don't import them.

                              I say AMEN to that.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Without a character arc?

                                Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
                                Here's a quote from the article I was talking about, an interview with William Mohonan:

                                People change in stories about people changing, not in every story. Not every story is A Christmas Carol. You get this crap about “story” because of these chuckleheads out there running script classes, who really prey on confusion about art and people’s genuine desire to learn. It’s shameful what they’ve done to discourse about motion pictures and to film itself. Writers literally get fired in this business because they aren’t providing enough “journey” in a story that doesn’t call for any. There are no general rules to any sort of writing. Each work has its own inherent rules. You discover them. You don’t import them.

                                I say AMEN to that.
                                I'm really confused. What type of story is it that doesn't call for any change?
                                I do understand that the protagonist is not the one that always needs to change.

                                I once got fired for not giving the boss what he wanted.
                                "I am the story itself; its source, its voice, its music."
                                - Clive Barker, Galilee

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