My first Blacklist review - 8

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  • #46
    Re: My first Blacklist review - 8

    Originally posted by FoxHound View Post
    I wonder whether the readers are being given too much freedom. Yes, two people can read a script, and one person can "feel it" and the other "doesn't feel it." But one thing that should not be in dispute is whether it's professionally written or not. That's objective. For eg. I HATE the script for Joy. I hate everything about it. I want David O Russell hanged. But I'd give it an 8 on the BL because it was professionally written, with clearly-defined character arcs, etc. It's not like it was an amateur's first draft.

    And maybe this is why score guidelines, like contests have, should be incorporated. It's not how the industry reader system works, but this isn't the industry reader system -- we're paying $75.
    I fully agree with this. A script is written well or it isn't. Sure there can be subjectivity but there's a lot of "this is great!" followed by "this is crap!". I've read scripts that I've not been in to but I've rated them because they formatted very well, made sense, had good characters and a clear plot etc. I personally don't see why the BL doesn't have small comments for each of the categories to explain their ratings especially since the price has risen.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: My first Blacklist review - 8

      Here's a copy of my evaluations.

      So this one was an overall of 7.

      Era:

      Near Future

      Locations:

      Philadelphia; London; Chicago; International

      Genre:

      Drama, Faith-Based Drama, Family Drama

      Logline:

      In the near future, a new religious leader, The Unseen One, leads through fear and strict enforcers and people all over the world struggle to adapt and uphold this new way of life.

      Strengths:

      Similar to THE LEFTOVERS, this script is driven by a dark and chilling religion-based premise, but unlike it’s predecessor, the writer has developed a wholly unique concept with little to no basis in today’s religions. The Unseen One seemingly took power by ending religious conflict around the world by eliminating the conflicting parties. Now, the dominant world religion, the Unseen One controls most aspects of daily life including education, marriage rights, and even media through fear-mongering. The writer has developed a strong mythology that’s both intriguing and terrifying with a strong sense of Orwellian roots. Rather than bog down the script in heavy backstory and exposition, the unique and complicated mythology slowly unravels through dialogue and action which help move the characters forward. The choice to focus on multiple characters in multiple cities helps to give the story a global aspect, making it all the more haunting.

      Weaknesses:

      Where the premise is strong and compelling, the ensemble-nature of the characters isn’t quite as successful. While the characters show promise as a “slice-of-life” look inside this unique world, the reader lacks a strong sense of each unique character and the nuances of his or her motivations, conflict, and overall arc. Most of the action drives the larger story forward and doesn’t set up whole premises for each individual. It’s somewhat unclear where each character is headed and why these stories are the ones we want to follow in this specific world. Coming in at 49 pages, the writer has some wiggle room to add a few scenes that could lead to further character development which instills stronger motivation and conflict for each. Currently, the characters come off as quiet compared to the premise, but it’s important that this be a character-driven series at it’s core.

      TV series potential:

      The unique premise gives this series a lot of promise on the marketplace, particularly given the large scale cult-like aspects. With stronger character work, this could appeal to basic cable and networks with particularly high miniseries potential that could draw a broad audience.

      Pages:

      49

      So after reading this I thought, fair enough. I added about 3 more pages and changed some character actions and reactions to create more conflict. I probably edited maybe 10% of the script.

      I got the following evaluation on the revision. This is an overall 4 and eventually was wiped.

      Era:

      current

      Locations:

      globetrotting, Atlanta, Philadelphia, London

      Genre:

      Supernatural Thriller, Mystery & Suspense, Mythological

      Logline:

      An ensemble supernatural series that explores the effects a mysterious, all-powerful being has on the lives of people who can perceive and are affected by his powers.

      Strengths:

      The narrative explores the influence of the divine on human, mortal life in a grounded setting. The interaction and experience of the divine is a theme humanity has universally and timeless wrestled with to no satisfying end. Exploring this subject material in the format of television is an intriguing, albeit extremely ambitious proposition. Alister is a compelling character with a well-defined voice that can be strong actor bait.

      Weaknesses:

      The pilot suffers from a very scattered narrative perspective where a large ensemble is juggled and multiple points of view of characters are introduced all with the one common, unifying experience of being affected by the Unseen One. This may work in the feature space in the hands of a skilled director, but in the open-ended long form narrative of television, this leads to a fragmented story that lacks focus. The globetrotting locations further compound the impression that this show lacks a center. The threat and omniscient power of the Unseen One is not enough of a connective tissue to hold the 10+ characters together in the first episode. Furthermore, so much of the episode consists of otherwise normal human characters talking about a god like entity, which causes the audience to grow restless and crave for unifying action that is teased but never consummated. A more gradual approach that centers around one or two cast members per episode may be better. Perhaps Mike is a suitable anchor, but in current form, he is not developed as a true protagonist.

      TV series potential:

      THE GREATER GOOD aims for a lofty target that explores questions every human being has at one point pondered in life. Unfortunately, the unwieldy ensemble cast and globetrotting locations leads to a fragmented narrative lacking a center, one that is in current form, unsustainable as a television series.

      Pages:

      53

      So the first reader liked the multiple characters in multiple cities and the second reader basically said they hated it and it was too hard to follow. I laughed when I read "This may work in the feature space in the hands of a skilled director, but in the open-ended long form narrative of television, this leads to a fragmented story that lacks focus." I wondered how you'd handle more story more effectively in an hour and a half than over 12 x 1 hour episodes.

      One thing that bugged me a bit, that both readers missed, is that in the log line and in the script itself it is clearly stated that the Unseen One is a God, not a religious leader or supernatural being, a frickin' God. That's the whole main point of the premise.
      Last edited by Phoenixman78; 05-27-2016, 04:26 PM. Reason: Added an additional commment

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      • #48
        Re: My first Blacklist review - 8

        Audiences certainly have never liked, I dunno, Hannibal Lecter. That's kind of a weird blanket criticism without substantiation. I certainly don't mean to pile on the reader and I understand the space limitations but tell me why. If the eccentricity (and psychosis) is borne of genius and competence and he is colorful, it would seem to be an easy sell to viewers.

        Make that thing available to download, I'd love to give it a read.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: My first Blacklist review - 8

          Originally posted by Phoenixman78 View Post
          I fully agree with this. A script is written well or it isn't. Sure there can be subjectivity but there's a lot of "this is great!" followed by "this is crap!". I've read scripts that I've not been in to but I've rated them because they formatted very well, made sense, had good characters and a clear plot etc. I personally don't see why the BL doesn't have small comments for each of the categories to explain their ratings especially since the price has risen.
          Not to nitpick here, but the point of the Black List evaluation is not to determine whether or not it is professionally written. It's to determine whether or not the reader would pass it up the line as something they believe could be produced. I think that's where a lot of misunderstanding comes in-- they aren't saying a 7 isn't professionally written, I think the assumption is that they are all professionally written unless they state otherwise.

          Which brings me to a question I'd like some help on. Below is the review that help me land my manger. It's really good, and I'd love to thank the person who wrote it personally. My question comes after the posted review:



          Rated 8s: Setting, character, and premise
          Rated 9s: Dialogue and plot

          PUBLIC SCRIPT REVIEWS

          Era:
          Present Day & Near Future

          Locations:
          East Coast / USA

          Budgets:
          High

          Genre:
          Action & Adventure,Action Thriller,Mystery & Suspense,Crime Thriller,Detective Film,Psychological Thriller,Sci-Fi Thriller,Sci-Fi & Fantasy,Psychological Sci-Fi

          Logline:
          A determined FBI agent with a dark past must use new technology go inside the mind of a sociopath in order to solve a mystery he's working on and catch a serial killer, but the sociopath's mind he is using belongs to the man that murdered his first wife and son.

          Strengths:
          This is an extremely well written script with a fantastic concept and a suspenseful plot. The world created here is perfect for the near future setting and isn't ever too over the top in the technology that we have to deal with as an audience. Val is a strong protagonist through and through and there are a ton of layers to his character. Everything from the obvious history he has with Griftka to his new family is well established and developed and that's before we even get a chance to get to know him as a hell bent and determined FBI agent who will stop at nothing to finish the job and catch his perp. The dialogue is natural and nail biting, creating a never cliche tone that never falls back on detective/FBI jargon to push the plot forward. There's a lot of emotion that comes from each of the character's interactions with Val and they stand out in individual ways. The dark nature to the script is executed powerfully and the writer doesn't hold back from creating some pretty gruesome images and sequences for the audience. It's juxtaposed nicely though through all of the human emotion that we get to see developed over the course of the script. WHOA, the twist at the end is so cool and intense and opens itself up for sequels. The empty feeling that the audience must go through when we think Val is lost is really intense.

          Weaknesses:
          Right now it feels like Brady's character is coming up a bit short in comparison to the other really well developed characters. We don't get a lot in line of his personal motives for why he's a part of all this or is passionate about it working out. We know he works well for the plot, and it is strong that he kind of hides from Val who's brain he's going to dive into, but there isn't a lot of personal growth for Brady. The same kind of goes for Dr. Peyton in that all of their scenes end up feeling sometimes repetitive in the ways that they interact with Val and commentate on the technology. The rest of the script never falls into this place, and for the most part these two characters work well to facilitate the plot and the story as well as Val's journey, but getting an extra sense of personality from both would make it easier to connect as an audience to their voices. Establishing a bit more about if other technologies have changed in the world would be cool to give the audience a better sense of how this near future has changed from the present day. This is a big development for only a few years into the future from the present day and it opens up some questions about this. It's not something that the audience has to dwell on, but might be a missed opportunity to expand on and make the world bigger for the sequels.

          Prospects:
          This is a very well written script that is sure to attract the attention of industry readers. It's SILENCE OF THE LAMBS meets MINORITY REPORT and creates a very powerful concept for the audience to get sucked into. The dialogue is sharp and Val, the protagonist, is sure to catch the attention of big time a list actors should this script make it into development. At the very least, the script moves at a polished and quick pace that is going to make for a very strong writing sample.

          Pages:
          114


          Now here's the question I'd like some advice on. After signing with my manger, I rewrote this spec (Tracker)-- I mean, it's really 100 times better. So, I have a new spec, Wasteland: The Sixth State, making the rounds now (to a select few). It's a high budget, futuristic, post-apocalyptic franchise piece...

          So, would it be worth listing Tracker on the Black List and paying for two evals? Could it help garner more attention to me as a writer? Should the reviews come out strong?

          Due to the nature of the specs I've written they don't get sent out wide-- but could it help? Unless someone like Fincher becomes interested in Tracker it probably won't get made, unless the climate changes internationally-- it's dark, and apparently this type of violence doesn't travel well.

          I'm also adapting Wasteland to a pilot, which should be ready in several weeks.

          Anyone have an opinion about it either way? I'm willing to fork out the dough. If it might help. I'm not sure how many agents are looking at the Black List for potential clients.
          "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: My first Blacklist review - 8

            Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
            Not to nitpick here, but the point of the Black List evaluation is not to determine whether or not it is professionally written. It's to determine whether or not the reader would pass it up the line as something they believe could be produced. I think that's where a lot of misunderstanding comes in-- they aren't saying a 7 isn't professionally written, I think the assumption is that they are all professionally written unless they state otherwise.
            Can you imagine how many poorly written screenplays by deluded amateurs (possibly such as myself, I don't know....) are clogging up the Black List? There would be a huge amount. If they're looking for something that could get produced then wouldn't "premise" be the main thing they're looking for?

            I think when you assume bud, it's that old saying, you make an ass out of u and me. I guarantee the BL readers and all paid readers for any company would have to suffer through piles of absolute garbage before they find a script they enjoy reading or doesn't make them want to gouge their eyes out. The issue isn't if an overall 7 isn't professionally written or not the issue is when 2 consecutive readers have greatly opposing views on one script and that it seems to be a common occurrence on the BL.

            The BL worked for you and that's fantastic but the inconsistency of the BL readers, coupled with a 50% price rise is what makes me as well as plenty of others question it's use when trying to break into the industry. I'm in the top quarterly list for my pilot but I ain't got one extra view since I hit it 2 weeks ago, not even from a peer. For now I'm going to rely on comps and good ol' queries to see if I can get somewhere with my writing.

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            • #51
              Re: My first Blacklist review - 8

              Originally posted by Phoenixman78 View Post
              If they're looking for something that could get produced then wouldn't "premise" be the main thing they're looking for?
              No. It's not. I got three consecutive 8's for premise on the same script (from three very subjective readers). I went out on three e-mail blasts and... NOT ONE SINGLE VIEW. Zilch. Nada.

              You'd think such a rare event would garner at least a reader to check out the first three pages. If anything, this proves industry folks are looking for fresh voices, not producible content.
              I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: My first Blacklist review - 8

                Originally posted by FoxHound View Post
                No. It's not. I got three consecutive 8's for premise on the same script (from three very subjective readers). I went out on three e-mail blasts and... NOT ONE SINGLE VIEW. Zilch. Nada.

                You'd think such a rare event would garner at least a reader to check out the first three pages. If anything, this proves industry folks are looking for fresh voices, not producible content.
                OR it means that with some agents that the Black List ratings mean two thirds of sweet nothing to them. Who knows? All you can do is keep trying dude. Keep beating at that door until they answer it.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: My first Blacklist review - 8

                  Originally posted by Phoenixman78 View Post
                  Can you imagine how many poorly written screenplays by deluded amateurs (possibly such as myself, I don't know....) are clogging up the Black List? There would be a huge amount. If they're looking for something that could get produced then wouldn't "premise" be the main thing they're looking for?
                  Well, they're not clogging up the Black List, because the Black List provides a service to writers and a service to industry professionals that evaluate your spec on whether that reader would pass it up the line and/or how likely they might be willing to do that.

                  The professionals probably read the logline, read the evaluation and then determine whether it's worth a download and a read. Downloads are only great if someone calls you afterward. You'll never know what was the reason they didn't call-- that sucks.

                  And no, premise doesn't sell a movie if the other elements are firing on all pistons, too. It's gotta have all of it. Industry professionals are not looking at whether a story is professionally written or not, I'm sorry, they're not. If they were, that would be a category that is scored. They're looking for compelling stories that are well written and require little "development" to get them set up.

                  They're looking for material that can sell, and be made into a movie. I'm not trying to be harsh here, but that is the reality. And a produceable movie isn't about premise alone. Agents and managers want to know that you can write a compelling story that translates to film and can sell.
                  I think when you assume bud, it's that old saying, you make an ass out of u and me. I guarantee the BL readers and all paid readers for any company would have to suffer through piles of absolute garbage before they find a script they enjoy reading or doesn't make them want to gouge their eyes out. The issue isn't if an overall 7 isn't professionally written or not the issue is when 2 consecutive readers have greatly opposing views on one script and that it seems to be a common occurrence on the BL.
                  I didn't say I was making the assumption, I said I thought others might be. The first spec I put up there was with a writing partner was like that. It was professionally written and we received not a single mention for it. We believed it should have done better, the reader disagreed. It is what it is.

                  Also, I'm not disputing that the disparage between scores doesn't exist, it does and it's concerning when one spec receives a 8 and a 4 from two different professional readers. Something is definitely off there. The argument that one person's 8 is another person's 6, is true I think when it comes to people who are making the decision to put millions into a movie to get it made.

                  Personally, I wouldn't expect that to be the case with a reader, because the reader's job is to find marketable material that the manager, producer, agent can make. I may still be naive on this one.

                  What I think is more concerning, is the possibility that you get a 5 out the gate, but you didn't pay for the second review, so you'll never know if the next two reviews wouldn't have been an 8 or above. There are writers who have received 10s and 5s on the same spec-- that's just insane.

                  And I've faced the same problems as others on the board. I had one instance where a main character is referred to as name A for the entire spec, and the reader kept calling him name B, which was his first name referred to only two or three times in the entire spec. Every line of dialogue clearly said name A. There were other errors, too. But clearly, the reader may not have read the script thoroughly. The review was expunged and gave me a new one at no charge.

                  I've had a few reviews that had to be replaced, just like others have.
                  The BL worked for you and that's fantastic but the inconsistency of the BL readers, coupled with a 50% price rise is what makes me as well as plenty of others question it's use when trying to break into the industry. I'm in the top quarterly list for my pilot but I ain't got one extra view since I hit it 2 weeks ago, not even from a peer. For now I'm going to rely on comps and good ol' queries to see if I can get somewhere with my writing.
                  I'm not arguing that the inconsistencies aren't concerning. This is the way it works. And you have to decide if you're willing to roll the dice or not. That's what my post was in respect to-- asking if anyone thought it was worth another roll of the dice. I don't know, but I want to believe it would be.

                  It's one tool that can be used to gain access. It's not the only tool, and every writer who wants to break in should understand that.
                  "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: My first Blacklist review - 8

                    Finally got my reader download after emailing support. Now on the "evaluation in progress" stage.

                    I wouldn't imagine it'll take much longer, considering the lengths of the evals posted.

                    Doesn't it have to go through BL manager approval though before it gets posted?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: My first Blacklist review - 8

                      So I did as I said I would and did a query blast of about 20 emails and even used some positive comments from my evaluations. I got 1 "send it to me" and 1 "no unsolicited submissions". The rest is silence so far but you never know. I never mentioned the scores because I think they'd go by what they think they can sell and the scores wouldn't sway them too much either way.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: My first Blacklist review - 8

                        It can help to put the scores in as well as include a link to the Black List evaluation.

                        Don' be discouraged, it's a holiday weekend. Give it a week or so for people to read and see if they like it. Queries will be on the bottom of their list and it's now a short week.

                        Good luck.
                        "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: My first Blacklist review - 8

                          Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                          It can help to put the scores in as well as include a link to the Black List evaluation.

                          Don' be discouraged, it's a holiday weekend. Give it a week or so for people to read and see if they like it. Queries will be on the bottom of their list and it's now a short week.

                          Good luck.
                          Cheers bud. I left the scores out because I didn't think they'd sway anyone either way if they weren't keen on the script and I think concept and marketability is probably what they're after but we shall see.

                          My response came from a UK company and I knew there was a long weekend in the US at the moment. I'm patient enough to wait. I know it'll probably a good 4 to 6 weeks before I get a response, if any, from the company I sent it to 2 days ago. I might just give them a short, friendly follow up email in a month.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: My first Blacklist review - 8

                            Got my third eval today. It was a 7 (first was 8 and second was 5). You can go back a couple pages in this thread if you want to see 3 different readers evaluations for the same script.

                            Era:
                            Present

                            Locations:
                            New Orleans

                            Genre:
                            Comedy, Dark Comedy, Dramatic Comedy

                            Logline:
                            A young cook takes an apprenticeship with a self-taught chef, but quickly starts to realize that the chef's eccentricities are much darker than he could have ever imagined.

                            Strengths:
                            The premise is great - it's hard to make a potential cannibal seem empathetic, but against all odds, the writer has accomplished this. Both Dev and Levi are strong characters; they both have incredible drive and a passion for what they do, even if Levi's drive veers strongly toward madness. The flashback scenes to Levi's upbringing in a funeral home are dark and funny, as the talking corpses are at once ridiculous and seem right at home. The New Orleans setting coupled with the cast's diversity are refreshing and will appeal to both executives and audiences alike. The world-building is particularly well done - there are many characters, relationships and rivalries introduced without ever feeling overwhelming or, more importantly, like any of the relationships or characters have been tacked on just to fill in some length. The writing is very good and the writer's voice and unique point of view shine through on every page.

                            Weaknesses:
                            At 46 pages, the script is a little short for an hour long series - another 10 pages could be added and still be within the typical length parameters. The ending feels a bit abrupt, so those pages could be used to add another scene somewhere - the final scene is shocking, but it may be interesting to see Dev's decision-making process, ending when he (presumably) shows up the next day to continue his apprenticeship with Levi. Of the two, Dev feels slightly less developed than Levi, as the audience doesn't see as much of his background and his character is fairly passive. He mostly just shows up when and where he's told to show up and goes with the flow, so it might be nice to spend a scene with him that gives him more agency. On a very small note, salmonella is very contagious, sometimes for weeks - perhaps Levi doesn't actually give Dev salmonella-tainted water, but if he does, it seems like a terrible business decision to have him come to work anytime soon.

                            TV series potential:
                            There is real potential here, like a funnier, marginally "lighter" version of DEXTER. Though the hook of the story may be difficult for some in the audience to swallow (no pun intended), there's still something very compelling about the strong characters, the interesting setting and the dark humor. If nothing else, it's a very strong writing sample and should definitely garner reads from industry professionals.

                            Pages:
                            46

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: My first Blacklist review - 8

                              Originally posted by Bainbridge View Post
                              Still awaiting my second review. It was ordered 51 days ago, so evidently demand is FAR outweighing supply still, at least in my genre. Here's my first review though. Composite scores were 7,7, 8, 8, and 9. Overall 8.

                              Menu
                              Era:
                              Present Day / 2000s

                              Locations:
                              New Orleans, LA

                              Genre:
                              Comedy Thriller, Dark Comedy, Drama, Crime Drama, Crime Thriller

                              Logline:
                              A self-taught chef struggling to stay atop the culinary world hires an apprentice to help develop new recipes, but the young trainee soon discovers the chef's secret ingredient... human.

                              Strengths:
                              CARNE is shockingly delightful; a series that will have you coming back for seconds and thirds. The dark tone and unexpected plot twists are expertly crafted, complementing the well-developed characters and strong dialogue. This pilot incorporates the culinary world and the setting of New Orleans in a way that also pairs nicely with the plot. LEVI is such a peculiar character, but it's hard not to root for him. If Frank Underwood was a chef, his name would be LEVI CHEVAL. The subplot of him having conversations with dead bodies is an interesting example of how this script turns the perverse into the provocative. DEV is the perfect foil for LEVI because of his open naivety, which contrasts well with LEVI's personality. The pilot thoroughly sets up the dynamic between LEVI, TERRY, and KAREN to be a future source of conflict that narrative can be driven from. The use of diagrams and animations to explain the anatomy of various animals is visually engaging and adds to the humor. Regardless of the viability of this concept in the marketplace, industry readers should recommend this writer because of the realness brought to the table with disturbingly entertaining ideas executed to perfection.

                              Weaknesses:
                              The unconventional premise may be unpalatable to most networks, so any ways to brighten the possibilities of the script with innocence, romance, and playfulness would help its marketability. In terms of plot, LEVI's motivations for hiring DEV feel understated. Is he doing it because he doesn't trust anyone else who works for him? What about his waning success has made him hire an inexperienced apprentice? All of the characters are connected with clear purpose, which mostly holds up (feels slightly convenient) until the reveal that LEVI is sleeping with LACEY. Then it starts to get a little soap opera. Going forward, expanding outside of LEVI's inner circle to see other characters' story lines will go a long way in maintaining audience appetite. The script was devoid of flaws, except for a misspelling of LACEY as "Lacy" on p.27.

                              TV series potential:
                              CARNE offers a very original story set in an attractive world, but the dark elements make it a tough sell to most broadcast networks. Basic or premium cable might be the preferred outlet to best preserve the dark tone and possibilities. If you baked DEXTER and HANNIBAL into BURNT, you'd be served with a delicious concoction called, CARNE.

                              Pages:
                              46

                              « Go back
                              Congrats on ATX!!!

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                              • #60
                                Re: My first Blacklist review - 8

                                Originally posted by Satriales View Post
                                Congrats on ATX!!!
                                Thank you!

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