Max Landis article on Deadline

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  • #46
    Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

    Originally posted by tuukka View Post
    When it comes to Max, I would put it this way:

    1. Talent.
    2. Hard work ethic.
    3. Good in the room (Nobody seems to dispute this).
    4. Great networking skills.
    5. An out-going, extrovert personality.
    6. Famous father.

    The problem is, so many seem to put emphasis on his 6th most important characteristic, when the first 5 count for so much more.

    As for kids of big industry people, I would guess that most of them have considered some kind of job in the show biz. But we're not hearing from them. They weren't good enough.

    How many people on this forum actually have the first 5 characteristics? I would say only very, very few. And most of them are already established pros. I don't score with those 5 things. Do you?

    Max does.
    Do you know Max personally? I don't. So your list is your opinion. But the only thing that is fact is #6. Everything else is debatable or things you've heard about him, but can't be verified as fact.

    I wont debate with you about the inner workings of Max's life/career. I don't know him. The only real problem I had wth this thread is how people were implying #6 didn't matter. In Hollywood it matters. I'm not hating on Max for being born into a good situation for working in Hollywood. I say more power to him. He didn't cheat. He's doing what everyone else does. He's playing the hand he's been dealt, that includes his talent and any other attributes.

    There really is zero benefit to rank the various aspects of a another man's character based on opinion alone. He could Have a great work ethic, but I really don't know for sure.

    Some say if you're fortunate enough to do what you love to do for a living, then it's like not working at all. Is it? I don't know. One good measure of a person's work ethic is if they're able to do a job they don't like and do it well day in day out in order to make ends meet. Did Max ever do the hard work of working a job he didn't love, not because he wanted to but because he had to? I don't know if he did or if he didn't, but I have an opinion which doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

    Some artists become prolific through the use of drugs to speed their process combined with a wealth of free time to pursue their dreams. Does that translate into strong work ethic? Opinions may vary. Not saying Max became prolific that way, just pointing out its possible for some artists to be overly productive without an inherently strong natural work ethic.

    IMHO, free time to pursue one's dream is a huge factor in how productive a person may be at their endeavors, especially during unpaid, learning phases of the process.

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    • #47
      Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

      Originally posted by mgwriter View Post
      Do you know Max personally? I don't. So your list is your opinion. But the only thing that is fact is #6. Everything else is debatable or things you've heard about him, but can't be verified as fact.

      I wont debate with you about the inner workings of Max's life/career. I don't know him. The only real problem I had wth this thread is how people were implying #6 didn't matter. In Hollywood it matters. I'm not hating on Max for being born into a good situation for working in Hollywood. I say more power to him. He didn't cheat. He's doing what everyone else does. He's playing the hand he's been dealt, that includes his talent and any other attributes.

      There really is zero benefit to rank the various aspects of a another man's character based on opinion alone. He could Have a great work ethic, but I really don't know for sure.

      Some say if you're fortunate enough to do what you love to do for a living, then it's like not working at all. Is it? I don't know. One good measure of a person's work ethic is if they're able to do a job they don't like and do it well day in day out in order to make ends meet. Did Max ever do the hard work of working a job he didn't love, not because he wanted to but because he had to? I don't know if he did or if he didn't, but I have an opinion which doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

      Some artists become prolific through the use of drugs to speed their process combined with a wealth of free time to pursue their dreams. Does that translate into strong work ethic? Opinions may vary. Not saying Max became prolific that way, just pointing out its possible for some artists to be overly productive without an inherently strong natural work ethic.

      IMHO, free time to pursue one's dream is a huge factor in how productive a person may be at their endeavors, especially during unpaid, learning phases of the process.
      I don't think it's just opinion that Max has got all 6 covered. There's strong evidence.

      1) TALENT. The guy burst onto the scene by writing a good movie that made a sh*tload of money. Does that prove talent? It's certainly A talent, one valued by studios who wager he's a good bet to repeat it.
      2) WORK ETHIC. What's work ethic if it's not constantly churning out material? Who cares about drugs or that he didn't have to work at McDonalds - plenty of people use drugs and watch cartoons all day, and plenty of celeb kids become nobodies or Chet Hanks.
      3) GOOD IN A ROOM. If he sells pitches, he's good in a room. You don't have to be Don Draper. No studio exec puts their ass on the line and spends their boss's money so they can be one degree of separation from John Landis. Go to Gelsons in Studio City, he's there a lot (unless it's Leonard Maltin, I can't tell those two apart). Good in a room means you get the job done. Max does.
      4) NETWORKING SKILLS. The guy is a relentless self-marketer and has tens of thousands of followers on various social media. They're not there for John Landis. They're there because Max is interesting and controversial.
      5) AN OUTGOING PERSONALITY. He's so outgoing he belongs in a f-ing straightjacket.
      6) FAMOUS FATHER. Everybody concedes that.
      Last edited by ProfessorChomp; 05-27-2016, 09:27 AM.
      https://twitter.com/DavidCoggeshall
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      • #48
        Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

        Originally posted by ProfessorChomp View Post
        I don't think it's just opinion that Max has got all 6 covered. There's strong evidence.

        1) TALENT. The guy burst onto the scene by writing a good movie that made a sh*tload of money. Does that prove talent? It's certainly A talent, one valued by studios who wager he's a good bet to repeat it.
        2) WORK ETHIC. What's work ethic if it's not constantly churning out material? Who cares about drugs or that he didn't have to work at McDonalds - plenty of people use drugs and watch cartoons all day, and plenty of celeb kids become nobodies or Chet Hanks.
        3) GOOD IN A ROOM. If he sells pitches, he's good in a room. You don't have to be Don Draper. No studio exec puts their ass on the line and spends their boss's money so they can be one degree of separation from John Landis. Go to Gelsons in Studio City, he's there a lot (unless it's Leonard Maltin, I can't tell those two apart). Good in a room means you get the job done. Max does.
        4) NETWORKING SKILLS. The guy is a relentless self-marketer and has tens of thousands of followers on various social media. They're not there for John Landis. They're there because Max is interesting and controversial.
        5) AN OUTGOING PERSONALITY. He's so outgoing he belongs in a f-ing straightjacket.
        6) FAMOUS FATHER. Everybody concedes that.
        All debatable except #6.

        There's strong evidence that Michael Jackson was the greatest entertainer who ever lived. We can list all of his milestone achievements and record breaking stats as evidence. But does that make it a fact? No. Elvis fanatics might disagree. It's debatable.

        Ranking Max's attributes in that order is no different than a fan ranking the attributes of their favorite football player. You really don't know. All this so called evidence you're posting of the greatness of Max only demonstrates that you are a FAN of Max, and there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is when fans promote the superiority of their favorite player as fact. It's not. It's a highly biased opinion.

        Basically your argument is that Max is great in the same way someone argues their favorite sports hero is great. How can you not see that's debatable even when you cite their achievements as evidence of greatness?

        I'm not here to protest your fandom of Max Landis. Max is awesome, whoopee! Not going to affect my life either way. The thing that bothered me was when people started making stuff up as though they were right there every step of the way at the outset of Max's career. How do you know John Landis has no pull in Hollywood anymore? How do you know the Landis name ONLY opened a few doors to get read? You don't know. But some of you are creating this narrative to make a stronger case for the greatness of your hero. And now you're blurring the line between quantifiable facts vs things you believe to be true about your hero. It's understandable. Most fan-atics take an irrational approach when discussing their heroes.

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        • #49
          Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

          Originally posted by mgwriter View Post
          All debatable except #6.

          There's strong evidence that Michael Jackson was the greatest entertainer who ever lived. We can list all of his milestone achievements and record breaking stats as evidence. But does that make it a fact? No. Elvis fanatics might disagree. It's debatable.

          Ranking Max's attributes in that order is no different than a fan ranking the attributes of their favorite football player. You really don't know. All this so called evidence you're posting of the greatness of Max only demonstrates that you are a FAN of Max, and there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is when fans promote the superiority of their favorite player as fact. It's not. It's a highly biased opinion.

          Basically your argument is that Max is great in the same way someone argues their favorite sports hero is great. How can you not see that's debatable even when you cite their achievements as evidence of greatness?

          I'm not here to protest your fandom of Max Landis. Max is awesome, whoopee! Not going to affect my life either way. The thing that bothered me was when people started making stuff up as though they were right there every step of the way at the outset of Max's career. How do you know John Landis has no pull in Hollywood anymore? How do you know the Landis name ONLY opened a few doors to get read? You don't know. But some of you are creating this narrative to make a stronger case for the greatness of your hero. And now you're blurring the line between quantifiable facts vs things you believe to be true about your hero. It's understandable. Most fan-atics take an irrational approach when discussing their heroes.
          Seriously? I wouldn't call myself a fan at all - I've seen one movie of his. That's the extent of my exposure to him (although I perused his nutty twitter during this discussion). I joined this thread because I don't take well to demeaning other writers' accomplishments with sour-grapes bullsh*t that their success wasn't really earned unless they hitchhiked here from Iowa with nothing. It's just not true. The success of Chronicle is more responsible for his continuous big sales than his name, at least based on my experience in a biz that almost always rewards hits with more opportunities. But go ahead and credit nepotism if it makes you feel better. No exec ever said "I hate this pitch but I have to buy it for $4m because his dad was a director in the '80s".

          And don't say my argument is that Max is great, he's a hero, all the bullsh*t words you just put in my mouth. I could give two sh*ts about the guy. But I'm still impressed with what he's accomplished, because having a celeb dad does not remotely guarantee the kind of continued success he's had.
          Last edited by ProfessorChomp; 05-27-2016, 02:09 PM.
          https://twitter.com/DavidCoggeshall
          http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1548597/

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          • #50
            Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

            Just wanted to put in a good word for John Landis, who's getting beat up a bit on this thread. Made some great movies that hold up really well. He also produced Dream On, one of my favorite TV shows and an HBO pioneer.

            I also enjoy his more recent cinephilia contributions, he has a deep love for film and film history. Just recently watched him in a documentary on pre-codes that he narrated for the Forbidden Hollywood series.

            Plus I kind of crush on him, he's cute! (the dad, not the son)
            Last edited by castilleja32; 05-27-2016, 06:20 PM.

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            • #51
              Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

              Originally posted by castilleja32 View Post
              Just wanted to put in a good word for John Landis, who's getting beat up a bit on this thread. Made some great movies that hold up really well.
              "The Blues Brothers" and "Trading Places" are two of my favorite comedies of all time. And let's not forget he directed "Thriller"!
              "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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              • #52
                Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                I'm certainly not bashing John Landis - I love the guy's movies. Who doesn't? I and others were simply saying that the Landis last name isn't enough (in 2016) to cause studios to go into a feeding frenzy and buy a script from his son they normally wouldn't buy, let alone for a whopping 4 million bucks.
                https://twitter.com/DavidCoggeshall
                http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1548597/

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                • #53
                  Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                  Originally posted by ProfessorChomp View Post
                  I and others were simply saying that the Landis last name isn't enough (in 2016) to cause studios to go into a feeding frenzy and buy a script from his son they normally wouldn't buy, let alone for a whopping 4 million bucks.
                  I don't think any person's last name is enough to create a feeding frenzy to buy a script for 4 million dollars. I don't think anyone is saying that. I think his more recent sales are more about having attachments like Bradley Cooper than his name being Landis.

                  I think for his 4 smaller scripts that haven't made back their budgets -- to even get some of those read to begin with or considered as viable projects, or to have reps decide to push those into the marketplace -- yes, I think his name helps. Simply because others' reps don't seem to make this happen or even remotely try to. I could be wrong -- for those here that have reps, are your reps doing this for you? Pushing scripts that are maybe not the "biggest" or "best" or "have heat" for you? So you, too, can get the paychecks, and the hype in deadline, and start to have a name? It doesn't seem to be that way for other writers. So in that regard, I believe his last name had a lot to do with those particular scripts getting sold.

                  Anyway, the whole point of the original question was not to see if people think Landis is "worthy" of his success -- sure, why not -- but if his gain of influence trickles down to other writers in general. I guess it doesn't, though?

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                  • #54
                    Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                    Originally posted by figment View Post
                    I don't think any person's last name is enough to create a feeding frenzy to buy a script for 4 million dollars. I don't think anyone is saying that. I think his more recent sales are more about having attachments like Bradley Cooper than his name being Landis.

                    I think for his 4 smaller scripts that haven't made back their budgets -- to even get some of those read to begin with or considered as viable projects, or to have reps decide to push those into the marketplace -- yes, I think his name helps. Simply because others' reps don't seem to make this happen or even remotely try to. I could be wrong -- for those here that have reps, are your reps doing this for you? Pushing scripts that are maybe not the "biggest" or "best" or "have heat" for you? So you, too, can get the paychecks, and the hype in deadline, and start to have a name? It doesn't seem to be that way for other writers. So in that regard, I believe his last name had a lot to do with those particular scripts getting sold.

                    Anyway, the whole point of the original question was not to see if people think Landis is "worthy" of his success -- sure, why not -- but if his gain of influence trickles down to other writers in general. I guess it doesn't, though?
                    Reps & companies giving your smaller/lesser scripts fresh consideration does happen when you have heat, especially the ultimate heat from writing a hit movie. It's all relative. I had a smaller victory this past year being on the Black List. Suddenly in meetings, people weren't just saying "What new ideas do you have?", they were saying "Any hidden gems collecting dust in your drawer?" If you write Chronicle, you bet your ass people are going to dig back into your catalogue. They're already written, why wouldn't they? And if a studio exec adores one and wants to push it up the ladder, she can tell the top dog "It's from the writer of the hit movie Chronicle!". That carries more weight in studio circles than "It's from the son of a director". Heat (especially hit-movie heat) getting your older/lesser stuff read is a naturally-occurring phenomenon. I've got a movie shooting in 2 weeks from an 8 year-old script that was collecting dust. It wasn't that my reps pushed it - Blumhouse read something of mine, liked the writing and asked what else I had stashed away. Turns out I had something they liked. Not a slam-dunk, brilliantly written, studio spec sale type script hot off the presses, a tiny little thriller that nobody else wanted. It happens.

                    So for those in the back, HIS NAME DID HELP. I'm not saying it didn't. But it doesn't get you repeated, continued, sustained success. Coming up with good ideas and marketing the sh*t out of yourself does. As for the original question... to be honest, I don't even remember what it was. I entered this discussion in response to negativity that was being directed toward a fellow writer for reasons I felt weren't necessarily deserved, and that he was being held to a possibly-unfair standard by some. "Writer X wrote a hit movie right out of the gate and has been successful ever since - good for him!!" "Max Landis wrote a hit movie right out of the gate and has been successful ever since - pff, it's his name."
                    Last edited by ProfessorChomp; 05-28-2016, 08:58 AM.
                    https://twitter.com/DavidCoggeshall
                    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1548597/

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                    • #55
                      Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                      Originally posted by mgwriter View Post
                      All debatable except #6.

                      There's strong evidence that Michael Jackson was the greatest entertainer who ever lived. We can list all of his milestone achievements and record breaking stats as evidence. But does that make it a fact? No. Elvis fanatics might disagree. It's debatable.

                      Ranking Max's attributes in that order is no different than a fan ranking the attributes of their favorite football player. You really don't know. All this so called evidence you're posting of the greatness of Max only demonstrates that you are a FAN of Max, and there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is when fans promote the superiority of their favorite player as fact. It's not. It's a highly biased opinion.

                      Basically your argument is that Max is great in the same way someone argues their favorite sports hero is great. How can you not see that's debatable even when you cite their achievements as evidence of greatness?

                      I'm not here to protest your fandom of Max Landis. Max is awesome, whoopee! Not going to affect my life either way. The thing that bothered me was when people started making stuff up as though they were right there every step of the way at the outset of Max's career. How do you know John Landis has no pull in Hollywood anymore? How do you know the Landis name ONLY opened a few doors to get read? You don't know. But some of you are creating this narrative to make a stronger case for the greatness of your hero. And now you're blurring the line between quantifiable facts vs things you believe to be true about your hero. It's understandable. Most fan-atics take an irrational approach when discussing their heroes.
                      I'm not a fan of Max Landis. I've seen only one of his movies. But I know who he is, and what he does, and how he does it. Quantifiable facts.

                      Your writing is getting increasingly irrational.

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                      • #56
                        Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                        Originally posted by tuukka View Post
                        I'm not a fan of Max Landis. I've seen only one of his movies. But I know who he is, and what he does, and how he does it. Quantifiable facts.

                        Your writing is getting increasingly irrational.
                        How do you know HOW Max does what he does? Please share in quantifiable, factual terms. Are you there observing when Max writes? Are you present at all of Max's meetings? Or are you simply guessing based on the end results you see?

                        Since you don't seem to understand the concept of what a quantifiable fact is, it's pointless for us to discuss this further.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                          Originally posted by mgwriter View Post
                          How do you know HOW Max does what he does? Please share in quantifiable, factual terms. Are you there observing when Max writes? Are you present at all of Max's meetings? Or are you simply guessing based on the end results you see?

                          Since you don't seem to understand the concept of what a quantifiable fact is, it's pointless for us to discuss this further.
                          There is wealth of information about Max Landis online.

                          I know how many scripts he has written. I know how many he has sold. I know how many were turned into movies. I know how difficult this is, and how much it demands from a writer, on the page, and in the room.

                          I know what kind of personality Max has. It's hard to escape him nowadays.
                          I know how he has built his network.

                          If you bother to google, you can find answers to all of those things.
                          If you are too lazy to do it, I'm not going to do the work for you.

                          You are acting as if Max Landis is some mysterious figure we know nothing about, when the extreme opposite is true.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                            Originally posted by mgwriter View Post
                            How do you know HOW Max does what he does? Please share in quantifiable, factual terms. Are you there observing when Max writes? Are you present at all of Max's meetings? Or are you simply guessing based on the end results you see?

                            Since you don't seem to understand the concept of what a quantifiable fact is, it's pointless for us to discuss this further.
                            It's interesting you hold us to the standard of quantifiable fact but not yourself. You credit nepotism for someone's success without any proof, but if we suggest maybe there's more to it, we need to prove it with some notarized certificate from the Billy Wilder Institute of Writerly Merit? Makes sense. If you insist on quantifiable fact, go prove with quantifiable fact that Max's dad made Chronicle a hit and got his subsequent scripts sold, and maybe we can continue this asinine discussion. Until then, it's just your opinion, no better or worse than ours.
                            Last edited by ProfessorChomp; 05-28-2016, 11:41 AM.
                            https://twitter.com/DavidCoggeshall
                            http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1548597/

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                            • #59
                              Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                              Originally posted by tuukka View Post
                              There is wealth of information about Max Landis online.

                              I know how many scripts he has written. I know how many he has sold. I know how many were turned into movies. I know how difficult this is, and how much it demands from a writer, on the page, and in the room.

                              I know what kind of personality Max has. It's hard to escape him nowadays.
                              I know how he has built his network.

                              If you bother to google, you can find answers to all of those things.
                              If you are too lazy to do it, I'm not going to do the work for you.

                              You are acting as if Max Landis is some mysterious figure we know nothing about, when the extreme opposite is true.
                              None of that tells you HOW Max Landis does what he does. You can't know a person by simply reading about them online. You claimed to have factual knowledge of how Max conducts himself in meetings. Is there a video feed online showing Max in meetings or are you guessing based on the persona he uses on his YouTube channel?

                              People with their own vanity YouTube channel use it to make themselves appear how they want themselves to appear. It's all controlled. If Max wants to appear as someone who is a self made genius who wasn't born into success, then that's the persona he's going to create for himself on YouTube.

                              Also people from privileged backgrounds rarely publicize ways in which their privileged status helped them when they are trying to make themselves look more awesome, which is probably why you don't see anything online about how John Landis helped Max get where he is. And since you don't see it online, John's helping Max sustain himself and his career must not exist? Is that the logic? Gtfoh

                              You can google and see that Max has movies produced, but it doesn't tell you HOW he wrote them or HOW he got them made, nor does it tell WHO helped him in ways that don't show up in the credits.

                              1) never believe everything you read online
                              2) you can read about a person online, but that doesn't mean you know them or know how they do what they do.
                              3) just because something appears on Google doesn't mean it's factual.

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                              • #60
                                Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                                Originally posted by mgwriter View Post
                                None of that tells you HOW Max Landis does what he does. You can't know a person by simply reading about them online. You claimed to have factual knowledge of how Max conducts himself in meetings. Is there a video feed online showing Max in meetings or are you guessing based on the persona he uses on his YouTube channel?

                                People with their own vanity YouTube channel use it to make themselves appear how they want themselves to appear. It's all controlled. If Max wants to appear as someone who is a self made genius who wasn't born into success, then that's the persona he's going to create for himself on YouTube.

                                Also people from privileged backgrounds rarely publicize ways in which their privileged status helped them when they are trying to make themselves look more awesome, which is probably why you don't see anything online about how John Landis helped Max get where he is. And since you don't see it online, John's helping Max sustain himself and his career must not exist? Is that the logic? Gtfoh

                                You can google and see that Max has movies produced, but it doesn't tell you HOW he wrote them or HOW he got them made, nor does it tell WHO helped him in ways that don't show up in the credits.

                                1) never believe everything you read online
                                2) you can read about a person online, but that doesn't mean you know them or know how they do what they do.
                                3) just because something appears on Google doesn't mean it's factual.
                                And where's your hidden camera footage showing John Landis making it all happen for him? Come back with that footage, please. I mean, if we have to provide it, you should too. It's only fair.
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