Newbie Seeking Sage Advice

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  • Newbie Seeking Sage Advice

    Hey everybody--

    Newbie writer here, hoping to get some sage advice from all you veterans...

    I had a script perform really well in a couple contests last year. It also had a good run on the Black List site. As a result, somebody passed it along to a producer who read it and liked it. We've been working together over the past few months to get the script in tip-top shape. I just got off the phone with him and have a few minor tweaks to take care of before it's ready to go.

    Our recent dialogue has been more about the script itself than the details of his strategy, but that conversation is right around the corner. I do know that the next step is to try to get an actress attached, then go from there. But anything beyond that has yet to be discussed and I'd like to be prepared as possible when the time comes.

    A few more details about me, my script and my situation:

    -- I have no representation.
    -- We have no formal agreement, contract, option, etc.
    -- It's an indie thriller
    -- He's legit. The last thing he produced was nominated for a golden globe and he has several projects set up around town with other very legit folks attached.

    All that being said, I was hoping some of you could steer me in the right direction. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Re: Newbie Seeking Sage Advice

    He knows what he's supposed to do then. Honestly, I'd wait for him to make the first real overture. But DON'T sign anything without an entertainment attorney. He can't make any deals without your say-so. If you get to that point, THEN engage an attorney (not someone of his choosing).
    Go ahead and get to work on your next script.

    Goes without saying that it would have been better to nail everything down in writing before you started rewriting for him...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Newbie Seeking Sage Advice

      Originally posted by glrobert View Post
      Hey everybody--

      Newbie writer here, hoping to get some sage advice from all you veterans...

      I had a script perform really well in a couple contests last year. It also had a good run on the Black List site. As a result, somebody passed it along to a producer who read it and liked it. We've been working together over the past few months to get the script in tip-top shape. I just got off the phone with him and have a few minor tweaks to take care of before it's ready to go.

      Our recent dialogue has been more about the script itself than the details of his strategy, but that conversation is right around the corner. I do know that the next step is to try to get an actress attached, then go from there. But anything beyond that has yet to be discussed and I'd like to be prepared as possible when the time comes.

      A few more details about me, my script and my situation:

      -- I have no representation.
      -- We have no formal agreement, contract, option, etc.
      -- It's an indie thriller
      -- He's legit. The last thing he produced was nominated for a golden globe and he has several projects set up around town with other very legit folks attached.

      All that being said, I was hoping some of you could steer me in the right direction. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

      Thanks!
      It sounds like you have a good working relationship, and since that's the case, just ask him. He certainly understands that you're new to the game, and it makes sense you'd have questions. Do you talk on the phone regularly? Or do you communicate through email? Hopefully, it's on the phone as much as texting, emailing.

      I have a manager who has explicitly said that he wants to produce everything I write. Personally, I don't have a problem with that because he gets me read and I'm writing big budget franchise kind of pieces.

      I have questions all the time and I mention them whenever I see an opportunity to ask.

      I am a nobody. No sale. No option. Just getting into the game, so take it all with a grain of salt. But what I do get is that there's a lot less to fear when you're working well with someone. Just ask the question when he says, "okay I think it's ready to send out."

      Congratulations, and good fortune to you.
      "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Newbie Seeking Sage Advice

        Originally posted by glrobert View Post
        Hey everybody--

        Newbie writer here, hoping to get some sage advice from all you veterans...

        I had a script perform really well in a couple contests last year. It also had a good run on the Black List site. As a result, somebody passed it along to a producer who read it and liked it. We've been working together over the past few months to get the script in tip-top shape. I just got off the phone with him and have a few minor tweaks to take care of before it's ready to go.

        Our recent dialogue has been more about the script itself than the details of his strategy, but that conversation is right around the corner. I do know that the next step is to try to get an actress attached, then go from there. But anything beyond that has yet to be discussed and I'd like to be prepared as possible when the time comes.

        A few more details about me, my script and my situation:

        -- I have no representation.
        -- We have no formal agreement, contract, option, etc.
        -- It's an indie thriller
        -- He's legit. The last thing he produced was nominated for a golden globe and he has several projects set up around town with other very legit folks attached.

        All that being said, I was hoping some of you could steer me in the right direction. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

        Thanks!
        I'm a little surprised that if he's that experienced he hasn't put your relationship with him and the script in writing. Even if it's a shopping agreement. You need to have some kind of contract with him, whether you think you have a good relationship or not. I've seen these kinds of things lead to all kinds of problems without a legal agreement of some kind in place.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Newbie Seeking Sage Advice

          You have already attached the producer regardless of paper-- they are shopping it, and you are incorporating their notes into the script. If they forward the progress and any notes are incorporated that will constitute a legal attachment. Electronic transmissions would substantiate their right to the attachment. In this case you have a de facto shopping agreement in place.

          Sounds like it's worth it, but you will need a rep/lawyer to make sure that the purchase agreement is fair... ie WGA minimum floor or 2-2.5% of the budget with a reasonable ceiling.

          Good luck!
          Mark

          [email protected]
          "The most terrifying thing is to accept oneself completely." ~Jung

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Newbie Seeking Sage Advice

            Originally posted by finalact4 View Post

            I have a manager who has explicitly said that he wants to produce everything I write.
            Just remember that a manager "wanting" to produce everything you write doesn't make it so. I've been very clear with each manager I've had that the producer credit on any project will be earned, not assumed. They've all been cool with that. Getting your script out there is the job of a manager, for which they get 10%. A producer credit means going above and beyond that - getting an actor, director, coming up with financing, etc.
            https://twitter.com/DavidCoggeshall
            http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1548597/

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Newbie Seeking Sage Advice

              Originally posted by ProfessorChomp View Post
              Just remember that a manager "wanting" to produce everything you write doesn't make it so. I've been very clear with each manager I've had that the producer credit on any project will be earned, not assumed. They've all been cool with that. Getting your script out there is the job of a manager, for which they get 10%. A producer credit means going above and beyond that - getting an actor, director, coming up with financing, etc.
              Thanks for the distinction, it's an important one.
              "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Newbie Seeking Sage Advice

                Thanks for the input guys. Greatly appreciated!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Newbie Seeking Sage Advice

                  Originally posted by ProfessorChomp View Post
                  Just remember that a manager "wanting" to produce everything you write doesn't make it so. I've been very clear with each manager I've had that the producer credit on any project will be earned, not assumed. They've all been cool with that. Getting your script out there is the job of a manager, for which they get 10%. A producer credit means going above and beyond that - getting an actor, director, coming up with financing, etc.

                  ^^^THAT!!! x1000.

                  Yea, whoa! Do not let your manager glom onto every project UNLESS your manager is also a huge producer with cred [meaning they already have SEVERAL ***RECENT*** produced films that you respect. Even so, maybe there's a better producer out there. The fact that your manager wants to "glom on" [the industry term for it] is not something to be proud of. It's actually an albatross around the neck of your script.

                  The deal is this: Every [EVERY!] manager wants to glom onto our work, as they are not bound by the same regulations as agents [otherwise agents would too]. Be carful with your material. Like ProfessorChomp said, make them EARN the right to attach. You're within your right to tell them "no thanks, don't want you attached."

                  Truuuuuuuuuuust me. I've been on the flip side, and yeah, you want to attach to everything because something is bound to get made -- from there you will bank roll for not doing a whole lot [not like they're a line producer, producer in name only]. That's what they're thinking [easy mark/easy money].

                  Tell your manager you merely want them to rep your script. Problem is, you don't want a hanger-on mucking up your project. Studios/Big-legit/made producers are looking for clean material. They don't want to have to figure out how to get rid of some dip-shiz manager who's never produced a single film.

                  Good luck!
                  DOPE CITY

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Newbie Seeking Sage Advice

                    ps... NO WAY IN FVCKING HELL is my manager attaching to anything I write. EVER!!!

                    (unless they become a huge/legit producer)
                    DOPE CITY

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Newbie Seeking Sage Advice

                      I've arranged it so that, if my manager has gone above and beyond the call of duty on a project (including story help, outside-the-box moves to get attachments, or has been in love with and devoted to a project for a loooooong time and has moved heaven and earth to see it move forward) then he will call me and very politely ask if I'd mind if he attached himself. Then it's my decision. Sometimes I say yes, sometimes I say no. Surftatboy is right that producer attachments can be an albatross. Studios might not want to include that manager in every meeting (especially ones you're not invited to) for the duration of the project. And what if they have to replace you? Your manager will still be on the project, and that's awkward as hell for the studio. I used to think "But that means he'll still be there to protect my interests!", but that ain't the case. Once your manager is a producer on a project, their primary motivation becomes getting that movie made, and if a new writer is what the studio needs to make that happen, so be it.
                      https://twitter.com/DavidCoggeshall
                      http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1548597/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Newbie Seeking Sage Advice

                        Originally posted by surftatboy View Post
                        ^^^THAT!!! x1000.

                        Yea, whoa! Do not let your manager glom onto every project UNLESS your manager is also a huge producer with cred [meaning they already have SEVERAL ***RECENT*** produced films that you respect. Even so, maybe there's a better producer out there. The fact that your manager wants to "glom on" [the industry term for it] is not something to be proud of. It's actually an albatross around the neck of your script.

                        The deal is this: Every [EVERY!] manager wants to glom onto our work, as they are not bound by the same regulations as agents [otherwise agents would too]. Be carful with your material. Like ProfessorChomp said, make them EARN the right to attach. You're within your right to tell them "no thanks, don't want you attached."

                        Truuuuuuuuuuust me. I've been on the flip side, and yeah, you want to attach to everything because something is bound to get made -- from there you will bank roll for not doing a whole lot [not like they're a line producer, producer in name only]. That's what they're thinking [easy mark/easy money].

                        Tell your manager you merely want them to rep your script. Problem is, you don't want a hanger-on mucking up your project. Studios/Big-legit/made producers are looking for clean material. They don't want to have to figure out how to get rid of some dip-shiz manager who's never produced a single film.

                        Good luck!
                        I understand the need for caution. I have a very good working relationship with my manager. At least it seems so at this point. If he works out a deal with the studio to come on board as a producer, how can I forbid it? The only thing I could do is not sell the spec. The thing is, his contract would have nothing to do with mine. And he would need to return his manager's fee to me, I will always have that stipulated in my contract, should it come to that. My manager has four emmy noms for his own writing early in his career. Has projects currently in development. And has several produced credits. Recent, yes.

                        What i can do is negotiate the best deal possible for myself. And if the studio really wants to fire me after everything is signed, i really doubt my manager would be able to prevent that whether they're on as producer or not. I know writers get fired off their own projects all the time. And if the studio really truly believes that another writer can do the job better, it's not my place to argue with them. They bought the property and they own it. It will sting, but i'll do everything to protect myself with the contract, even including a payout if/when they do fire me. That's possible, right? And once I sign the deal, the deal's the deal, right? I can't bitch about it, if I sign it. And I can't blame my manager if his deal allows him to stay on the project.

                        And if the deal doesn't work for me, i can always fire him. My manager has a lot of enthusiasm for my writing. He gets me read by the right people. I respect him. I'll always do what's right for me. If i feel i'm being taken advantage of, i'll address it.

                        So let me ask this, because I do understand that being very new to representation I could be naive about it. How would you know if a studio wanted the property without the attachment? Wouldn't the studio say so. And if they really wanted it bad, would they contact your agent or the writer directly? And as my manager, isn't he ethically bound to tell me that's the case? If it means the difference from getting a project set up and not getting it set up at all, wouldn't a strong manager/producer step back and make it work? Because at the end of the day, there'll be another project to sell/attach to.

                        With the two specs I have that are market ready, there's only a few that have the power to get them made. It's not like they're a midrange rom-com or contained thrillers that several people can get in the can for under 30 mil. They're stand alone franchise pieces. And I know this makes it harder, I do. But I love what I write. I'm passionate about it and I know it's nearly impossible to get them made, but they should serve as writing samples to hopefully be considered for the type of films I do write. With the fact that they're hiring more than one writing for an assignment, maybe that's an opportunity?

                        And how is it different than working with a producer that isn't a manager? If the producer helps you develop your project and you rewrite it based on the conversations you have and the notes that are offered because you believe they're the right thing to do and the producer goes to the studio and they are going to be attached to the project, right? That's no different, is it?

                        My apologies to the OP, I didn't mean to derail your thread.
                        Last edited by finalact4; 05-11-2016, 07:35 PM.
                        "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Newbie Seeking Sage Advice

                          Sorry, I'm speed reading your response [slammed]. I reserve the right to change my opinion based on a closer read:

                          Nope, not the same whatsoever. Manager X may mean fvck all to the studio where producer Y may mean the world to the studio [could be the dif between sold and not]. One they take seriously the other they don't. Life.

                          Otherwise, sure, theoretically there's an obligation to the client but DO NOT BANK ON THAT. I've mentioned before that me and my partner made a deal for a writer for 7 figures. The politics were nuts. Plenty of people wanted us to take a low 6 figure deal [pressuring to make big names happy]. The low ball deal was considered to make others happy. The writer would never have been the wiser. Could have very easily came back to the writer with "Hey, great news, low 6 figures!!! _____ movie star is so happy to be working with you. Wooot!" And this is a writer who is a big deal, much bigger deal than you or I.

                          No, don't assume your rep has your best interest. I've been a part of and been privy to too many behind the scenes [rep wise] goings on to know otherwise. It ALWAYS depends on what's in it for THEM. I've been a part of a deal like that, where you get commission checks for several hundred thousand dollars… a BUNCH OF THEM! It's a blast. The work was minimal [compared to writing.] Every manager wants to be a part of a deal like that [that sets you up for the next few years].

                          The ONLY way a manager is glomming onto my stuff is if they flat out EARN the sh*t out of it. A good (GREAT!) manager will tell you "I'm gonna pull off this as producer, I'll only be in your way." What my manager said on the recent project. I was ok with them attaching for a specific reason, but they pulled off to clear the way for a real producer… which we got. It was the better move.

                          No, don't give your manager carte blanche to attach to everything you write. Particularly HUGE franchise-esque pieces, UNLESS they've already produced some. I mean…? They have to work their way up same as we do.

                          Your call…. just my opinion.
                          DOPE CITY

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Newbie Seeking Sage Advice

                            Originally posted by surftatboy View Post
                            Sorry, I'm speed reading your response [slammed]. I reserve the right to change my opinion based on a closer read:

                            Nope, not the same whatsoever. Manager X may mean fvck all to the studio where producer Y may mean the world to the studio [could be the dif between sold and not]. One they take seriously the other they don't. Life.

                            Otherwise, sure, theoretically there's an obligation to the client but DO NOT BANK ON THAT. I've mentioned before that me and my partner made a deal for a writer for 7 figures. The politics were nuts. Plenty of people wanted us to take a low 6 figure deal [pressuring to make big names happy]. The low ball deal was considered to make others happy. The writer would never have been the wiser. Could have very easily came back to the writer with "Hey, great news, low 6 figures!!! _____ movie star is so happy to be working with you. Wooot!" And this is a writer who is a big deal, much bigger deal than you or I.

                            No, don't assume your rep has your best interest. I've been a part of and been privy to too many behind the scenes [rep wise] goings on to know otherwise. It ALWAYS depends on what's in it for THEM. I've been a part of a deal like that, where you get commission checks for several hundred thousand dollars... a BUNCH OF THEM! It's a blast. The work was minimal [compared to writing.] Every manager wants to be a part of a deal like that [that sets you up for the next few years].

                            The ONLY way a manager is glomming onto my stuff is if they flat out EARN the sh*t out of it. A good (GREAT!) manager will tell you "I'm gonna pull off this as producer, I'll only be in your way." What my manager said on the recent project. I was ok with them attaching for a specific reason, but they pulled off to clear the way for a real producer... which we got. It was the better move.

                            No, don't give your manager carte blanche to attach to everything you write. Particularly HUGE franchise-esque pieces, UNLESS they've already produced some. I mean...? They have to work their way up same as we do.

                            Your call.... just my opinion.
                            Sorry if my response was a bit verbose. Wheels spinning, you know?

                            I really appreciate your response. It helps clarify much.

                            I'd like to think that my manager is the kind of guy that would back off for the better good. He's only ever mentioned attaching in our conversation when I agreed to let him represent me. I know he really likes my writing. He's as excited I as I am. He works with me. Challenges my story logic, which is really vital in a futuristic sci-fi world with rules. I'm a better writer now than I was 6 months ago.

                            Congrats on the 7 fig deal. I remember reading another of your posts where you mentioned the $3 mil price tag. Amazing accomplishment. When you made that deal, how did you know to go that high? Did you set the bar? Was it a bidding war? it's so interesting.

                            I'm not yet in a position to have to worry about attachments, but maybe somewhere down the line I'll get my shot and I'll certainly take your sage advice and that of the others into consideration.

                            Thanks for your generosity.
                            "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Newbie Seeking Sage Advice

                              My pleasure.

                              Yes, make a soup out of all of our advice. The best bits, to taste.


                              Yup, that's all I'm saying. You want a manager who'll back off if it's over their head. It's also good to have a sense, as a writer, when those moments are. Great that they love our material and are helpful in fine tuning our stories, but they're already getting 10% for that. And a nice bottle of wine.

                              The short of that 7 figure deal was: it was a situation where there was one studio interested, came to the table with an offer which was far too low for such a hot property. There were already attachments [fancy ones]. But said studio's purchase price was much lower than we anticipated. They were set to pull their offer at 5pm. It was like 3 pm and we only had the one offer. We were a bit panicked, where were the other offers? No incoming calls. I suggested we wait it out. 4:30-ish we get a call from _____ studio with a 7 figure offer that we could not shop and that would expire at 5pm.

                              From that moment it was a mad scramble to try and preemptively fix the mess it would create taking the higher offer, as the project would therefore need to be pulled from some heavy hitters [longer story]. Ultimately we figured out how to fold everyone back in, in a new way.

                              Initially, I was terrified the writer was going to say "Nah... let's go with the lower offer... I don't want to make anyone mad." We were not pushy with the writer, just gently explained that this was life changing money which may only happen once.

                              So, yes, we set a number in our minds. Wasn't an actual bidding war, as we couldn't shop numbers. Essentially we gambled that someone would step up with a purchase price that reflected the value of the material. And they did................ in the 11th hour.


                              TAKE THE MONEY --> EVERY TIME!

                              ...everything else will work itself out.

                              Now, if I could just make a deal like that with my own material. That would be a much bigger high!
                              DOPE CITY

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