Sexual orientations?

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  • #31
    Re: Sexual orientations?

    Originally posted by Biohazard View Post
    Sexual orientation should be treated the same as every other aspect of your story - it has to be in there for a specific reason. You shouldn't make someone gay just for the hell of it. Do it for a plot-related reason if you want it to work.
    Eh. I don't know for sure that this is the case.

    I mean, would we ever say, "Don't make someone black just for the heck of it?" or "Don't make a character female just for the heck of it?"

    Sexual orientation is a little trickier, because gays as a more oppressed minority, these days, than most others, and bigotry against gays is still accepted in many quarters which would never accept open bigotry against ethnic minorities. But maybe that argues FOR making more supporting characters gay just for the heck of it.

    Sometimes these things can help unlock the character for you. It helps you find the voice, it informs the character's choices, and helps you bring them to life even if it doesn't directly impact the plot. You may not even know what it's going to unlock when you start writing the script, only to have an "aha" moment halfway through.

    But you need to tread carefully with lead characters, because it's still a contentious topic worldwide.

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    • #32
      Re: Sexual orientations?

      Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post
      I mean, would we ever say, "Don't make someone black just for the heck of it?" or "Don't make a character female just for the heck of it?"
      Yes. I don't do casting, so I have no idea the race of any of my characters. Casting decides that... unless it is story related. Then it is my job. My scripts are colorblind, unless the color is critical to the story. I focus on the character, not the skin or eye color... unless those things are story related.

      - Bill
      Free Script Tips:
      http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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      • #33
        Re: Sexual orientations?

        Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
        Yes. I don't do casting, so I have no idea the race of any of my characters. Casting decides that... unless it is story related. Then it is my job. My scripts are colorblind, unless the color is critical to the story. I focus on the character, not the skin or eye color... unless those things are story related.

        - Bill
        Exactly.

        Don't make your story have a gay Indian woman as your hero unless your story is specifically about a gay Indian woman...or they might just cast Denzel Washington and tell you to go f**k yourself.

        I don't mean to sound negative, but that's simply the way the business works, and nobody is going to bend for you. You have to bend for them.

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        • #34
          Re: Sexual orientations?

          Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
          Yes. I don't do casting, so I have no idea the race of any of my characters. Casting decides that... unless it is story related. Then it is my job. My scripts are colorblind, unless the color is critical to the story. I focus on the character, not the skin or eye color... unless those things are story related.

          - Bill
          but so often the casting people just assume everyone is white or male if not specified. they can't even give minorities minor roles when it makes sense to do so. ie - you usually only see white kids working in fast food joints and white adults working at the 7-11 type stores in middle america where most stores don't take place. seventy-five percent of the extras in any movie or tv show set in washington dc should be black. casting people don't do any research. they do what's written on the paper.

          oh yeah, i forgot to say TANGENT ALERT! the topic is sex, not race.
          AS YOU WERE

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          • #35
            Re: Sexual orientations?

            Except it is not written on paper that they are white or straight or even male (sometimes).

            I have had Asians and African Americans and Hispanics and just about everyone else cast in roles written for *people*. Yes, even the leads.

            I have also had women cast in roles written as men - which is always cool.

            I have also had screwed up casting - I *hated* the casting on STEEL SHARKS because the SEAL Team was a bunch of white guys. The script had last names like "Salazar" - and they cast some white dude... then changed the character name. These things are casting and director choices - and you get screwed no matter what you do.

            But I'd rather leave it open so that Denzel and Will and Antonio get on the list along with all of the white guy stars. Then, they do whatever they want - which is what they were going to do anyway.

            The person behind the counter at McD's - unless it's story related, I'm not sure I'm givining them a sex.

            And nothing stops "COMBOVER COP" from being a woman or Gay or any race you can imagine.

            - Bill
            Free Script Tips:
            http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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            • #36
              Re: Sexual orientations?

              If you name a character Salazar, aren't you in effect assigning a Latino ethnicity to the character?

              Just askin'.

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              • #37
                Re: Sexual orientations?

                Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
                And nothing stops "COMBOVER COP" from being a woman or Gay or any race you can imagine.

                - Bill
                honestly what woman or gay man would want to play "combover cop"??!!! you know the casting agency will make this a white male.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Sexual orientations?

                  Originally posted by ihavebiglips View Post
                  If you name a character Salazar, aren't you in effect assigning a Latino ethnicity to the character?

                  Just askin'.
                  Other things being equal, yes, you are.

                  However, Spanish and Puertoguese (sp) are spoken in many and varied places in the world, Latin America, the Iberian Peninsula, parts of North Africa, Mexico and Central America. It may be that "Salazar" is from Portugal or even the Philippines, where Spain ruled long enough to get some Spanish names into the culture. He could be Cuban or Bolivian, he could be a Basque.

                  It starts with a name but it sure doesn't end there.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Sexual orientations?

                    Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
                    Except it is not written on paper that they are white or straight or even male (sometimes).

                    I have had Asians and African Americans and Hispanics and just about everyone else cast in roles written for *people*. Yes, even the leads.

                    I have also had women cast in roles written as men - which is always cool.

                    I have also had screwed up casting - I *hated* the casting on STEEL SHARKS because the SEAL Team was a bunch of white guys. The script had last names like "Salazar" - and they cast some white dude... then changed the character name. These things are casting and director choices - and you get screwed no matter what you do.

                    But I'd rather leave it open so that Denzel and Will and Antonio get on the list along with all of the white guy stars. Then, they do whatever they want - which is what they were going to do anyway.

                    The person behind the counter at McD's - unless it's story related, I'm not sure I'm givining them a sex.

                    And nothing stops "COMBOVER COP" from being a woman or Gay or any race you can imagine.

                    - Bill
                    Haha - So if I want a bi woman in my story I have to bind her so tightly into the plot that nobody is going to be able to change her to a straight one without doing a total rewrite? Gotcha!
                    "Would you take a f**k to save your president?"

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Sexual orientations?

                      Originally posted by FADE IN View Post
                      Other things being equal, yes, you are.

                      However, Spanish and Puertoguese (sp) are spoken in many and varied places in the world, Latin America, the Iberian Peninsula, parts of North Africa, Mexico and Central America. It may be that "Salazar" is from Portugal or even the Philippines, where Spain ruled long enough to get some Spanish names into the culture. He could be Cuban or Bolivian, he could be a Basque.

                      It starts with a name but it sure doesn't end there.
                      Yeah, I lived in the Philippines for 4 years as a kid. I should have phrased it:

                      If you name a character Salazar, aren't you in effect assigning an ethnicity to the character?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Sexual orientations?

                        Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
                        Yes. I don't do casting, so I have no idea the race of any of my characters. Casting decides that... unless it is story related. Then it is my job. My scripts are colorblind, unless the color is critical to the story. I focus on the character, not the skin or eye color... unless those things are story related.
                        You see, I think this is a little naive.

                        Because race is a formative characteristic for a lot of people. People self-seggregate a lot, and there's often a racial element to the relationships that people form, even when it's across racial boundaries.

                        A black beat cop in south central L.A. is going to have a different experience than a white cop walking that same route. Better in some ways, worse in others, but that's going to affect who they are. When I went to a large, majority-minority high school, the black kids who hung out with the white kids were often making a conscious choice of rejecting the predominant black culture of the school.

                        I think that, as relatively unprejudiced white folks, it's often easy for us to overlook the ways in which people of minority ethnicities feel their minority status. I mean, I'm sure you've walked into a bar in koreatown and been made very aware that you were the only white guy there, right? Now imagine that there was a subtle undercurrent of that in every business meeting you walked in to. You don't think that would affect your personality at all?

                        Since we were talking about The Wire, let's continue to do so. How does McNulty change - aside from his name - if he's black? Doesn't Lester Freemon sound different if he's white? Isn't Clay Davis so memorable because of the ways in which he echoes many other African American politicians?

                        If you write all those characters as "whatever the casting director comes up with" then you're not writing them with the same texture.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Sexual orientations?

                          Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post
                          You see, I think this is a little naive.

                          Because race is a formative characteristic for a lot of people. People self-seggregate a lot, and there's often a racial element to the relationships that people form, even when it's across racial boundaries.

                          A black beat cop in south central L.A. is going to have a different experience than a white cop walking that same route. Better in some ways, worse in others, but that's going to affect who they are. When I went to a large, majority-minority high school, the black kids who hung out with the white kids were often making a conscious choice of rejecting the predominant black culture of the school.

                          I think that, as relatively unprejudiced white folks, it's often easy for us to overlook the ways in which people of minority ethnicities feel their minority status. I mean, I'm sure you've walked into a bar in koreatown and been made very aware that you were the only white guy there, right? Now imagine that there was a subtle undercurrent of that in every business meeting you walked in to. You don't think that would affect your personality at all?

                          Since we were talking about The Wire, let's continue to do so. How does McNulty change - aside from his name - if he's black? Doesn't Lester Freemon sound different if he's white? Isn't Clay Davis so memorable because of the ways in which he echoes many other African American politicians?

                          If you write all those characters as "whatever the casting director comes up with" then you're not writing them with the same texture.
                          Agreed.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Sexual orientations?

                            i agree with anyone who agrees with that as well.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Sexual orientations?

                              Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post
                              I think that, as relatively unprejudiced white folks, it's often easy for us to overlook the ways in which people of minority ethnicities feel their minority status. I mean, I'm sure you've walked into a bar in koreatown and been made very aware that you were the only white guy there, right? Now imagine that there was a subtle undercurrent of that in every business meeting you walked in to. You don't think that would affect your personality at all?

                              Since we were talking about The Wire, let's continue to do so. How does McNulty change - aside from his name - if he's black? Doesn't Lester Freemon sound different if he's white? Isn't Clay Davis so memorable because of the ways in which he echoes many other African American politicians?

                              If you write all those characters as "whatever the casting director comes up with" then you're not writing them with the same texture.
                              All good points and no dispute. The difference between the perpectives offered by and Bill Martell might come down to film genre type. In the example of The Wire (which I accept is not mainstream HW) the characters were very specific, even to ethnicity, sexuality, racial/sexual politics, etc., with a purpose. Some, like Omar and 'Bunk' Moreland, were precise composites of living individuals. The specificity of character was important to both the plot(s) and themes. Similar criteria could equallly have applied to a feature version The Wire.

                              But there are also movies where the distinction is much less important and a role could be filled by range of actors. It comes down to the genre and characteristics of the story and at that initial level, it's the writer's choice.
                              "Friends make the worst enemies." Frank Underwood

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