Screenplay pet peeves

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  • #76
    Re: Screenplay pet peeves

    I'm not even sure if I use ellipses correctly... Any advice what to look for in terms of screenwriting or where it's decidedly misused before I check out some research on it? Thanks for the checkup Dr. V.

    ETA after the fact: Well I did find this http://thewritepractice.com/how-to-u...sis-correctly/ Seems to cover the basics. Were you referring to punctuation or just overall application overall to signify trailing off of a thought or skipping past a segment of information?

    Hmm, I'm just not sure ...
    Last edited by MJ Scribe; 08-28-2013, 06:38 AM.
    " Don't really like writing. But I do like having written." Vince Gilligan, Breaking Bad.

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    • #77
      Re: Screenplay pet peeves

      I could be wrong, but I think that when a character interrupts another the proper way to write it would be:

      ANDER
      So I wondered if you--

      MR. MARKEL
      Would you like something to drink?
      Although some people will write it like this:

      ANDER
      So I wondered if you...

      MR. MARKEL
      Would you like something to drink?
      Which reads as Ander trailing off.

      Then also in action paragraphs some people seem to use double dashes and ellipses as if they were interchangeable, when they usually aren't.

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      • #78
        Re: Screenplay pet peeves

        David Guggenheim tends to use and abuse double dashes quite a lot.

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        • #79
          Re: Screenplay pet peeves

          Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
          That funny comeback I heard in three other movies. The CGI destruction porn act 3. A bunch of illogical plotting that no one cared enough to make sense of.
          This.

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          • #80
            Re: Screenplay pet peeves

            Thanks for reply Dr. V. I think those a great examples.

            I agree for the most part, double dashes are better employed to signify a change in the speaker's thought direction. From what I've read mostly, criticism of the ellipses seems to focus on the intricacies of punctuation. Spaces before/after, use of a period before the ellipsis at times etc.

            Anything else come to mind? Other than plain over-use which I definitely seem to do...

            (I know this is probably wrong section/thread for all this so profussly apologize. I'll drop it after this, my last question.)
            " Don't really like writing. But I do like having written." Vince Gilligan, Breaking Bad.

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            • #81
              Re: Screenplay pet peeves

              Originally posted by pabloamigo View Post
              double dashes
              Speaking of pet peeves.

              I only use them when a character is interrupted. The other day I saw someone use a triple dash. The whole thing is nauseating for so many reasons.

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              • #82
                Re: Screenplay pet peeves

                @MJ Scribe: Most complexities in the use of ellipses and other punctuation signs rarely show in screenplays because the writing nowadays is very lean and straightforward.

                Overuse of course can be annoying to the reader and that's something to avoid, but it can also have to do with your writing style or, better yet, be the most fitting way to describe your scene: the tone, the behavior of the character, the rhythm, etc. If it works, it works; that's all there's to it.

                Reading work from a variety of writers with different approaches towards punctuation is very helpful to understand how to use it effectively and to form your own style.

                In the case of the Spanish language, we have an institution called the Real Academia Española that's in charge of its regulation. They publish several dictionaries, a grammar and other texts that describe the proper way or ways to use our language as well as record its evolution and changes. They also have a website where, among other things, one can learn how to use and not to use the different punctuation signs. There must be a similar institution in the case of English where you can find answers to any doubt you may have; after all, screenplays are still written in English (or French, Spanish,...) and the punctuation signs serve the same function they do in in regular prose.

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                • #83
                  Re: Screenplay pet peeves

                  A question: a double dash is nothing but a typewriter convention to signify an em dash or an en dash, right?

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                  • #84
                    Re: Screenplay pet peeves

                    What do people in here think of using ... to bring the reader to the next beat?

                    I personally like it, as it's a simple, fluid tool that encourages swift reading.

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                    • #85
                      Re: Screenplay pet peeves

                      Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
                      A question: a double dash is nothing but a typewriter convention to signify an em dash or an en dash, right?
                      That's been my understanding. I use two dashes since I haven't figured how to utilize my word processor's convention for the same. BTW, thank you for taking time to answer my earlier qq/post.

                      If this helps any, I found this at the Free Dictionary website.

                      http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Em+dashes

                      em·dash or em dash (mdsh)

                      n.
                      A symbol ( ) used in writing and printing to indicate a break in thought or sentence structure, to introduce a phrase added for emphasis, definition, or explanation, or to separate two clauses.

                      hope it helps!!
                      " Don't really like writing. But I do like having written." Vince Gilligan, Breaking Bad.

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                      • #86
                        Re: Screenplay pet peeves

                        I think the upset over "the proper use" of semicolons is hilarious.

                        From the perspective of the proper use of standard-English grammar, screenplay grammar is an abomination.

                        For example, in one of this week's 3-pagers that John and Craig reviewed, IIRC they recommend a rewrite of the first sentence so that it has no verb. Of course, verbless sentences in screenplays are fine. But with that in mind, how is it that the standard-English rule for semicolon usage is deemed inviolate?

                        In the copy of The Graduate that I have, Buck Henry used 21 semicolons. I like Buck Henry. I like the way he uses semicolons. Should it matter if each one of those uses meets the rules of standard English? I dunno, but it doesn't matter to me.

                        It seems to me that punctuation in a screenplay can serve two purposes: The usual one, and the one that serves pacing and rhythm. Everyone seems to be fine with that when it comes to periods and commas. It seems that most everyone is fine with that when it comes to dashes (as a general proposition). Whatever helps bring your story to the reader in a clear and compelling way.

                        But, when it comes to semicolons...? How dare you?!!! Where's my Strunk & White?! And my gun?!

                        As for those 3-pagers... Would I have used semicolons as those writers did? Mostly, no. But did any of those semicolons cause me to be confused? No. FWIW, I agree with John and Craig's criticism about the lack of clarity in the writing, but semicolon usage was not even a speed-hump.

                        Indeed, if you look at the rules for semicolons in the link that John provided - a good, light-touch set of rules IMO - I'd argue that some of what the 3-page writers did was fine.

                        All that said, here's my take-away: Some people in the industry really, really don't like semicolons. And so, even if I think my usage is right, I'll limit their appearances.

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                        • #87
                          Re: Screenplay pet peeves

                          @MJ Scribe: what word processor do you use? MS Word and LibreOffice Writer both do this automatically: "word--word" gets converted to "word-word", and "word -- word" gets converted to "word - word".

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                          • #88
                            Re: Screenplay pet peeves

                            Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
                            @MJ Scribe: what word processor do you use? MS Word and LibreOffice Writer both do this automatically: "word--word" gets converted to "word—word", and "word -- word" gets converted to "word – word".
                            And in FD (and other software), at least on a Windows desktop with a full-sized keyboard, including a number-pad to the right: Hold down the ALT key and type "0151" on the number keypad - and you'll get an em-dash.

                            Like this: — (Except it will be a bit smaller than that due to the limitations of the mono-space Courier font.)

                            Note: AFAIK, this will not work if you use the number keys at the top of the keyboard; you must use the number-pad to the right. As for Windows laptops (which don't have those number-pads) - I don't recall the work-around at the moment.

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                            • #89
                              Re: Screenplay pet peeves

                              Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
                              @MJ Scribe: what word processor do you use? MS Word and LibreOffice Writer both do this automatically: "word--word" gets converted to "word—word", and "word -- word" gets converted to "word – word".
                              looks like box says Corel Wordperfectx5. Tried it and I guess it converts the -- to an em-dash. Looks alot smaller. Was using 2 dashes 'cause conversion looked so skimpy. I wonder if you think it matters to most...

                              here is my quick example I created (using) pdf. First with em dash conversion, second with two dashes

                              I was walking down the street one day... a man came up - and
                              asked what time it was... And, I said... does anyone really care?

                              I was walking down the street one day... a man came up -- and
                              asked what time it was... And, I said... does anyone really care?
                              I even wonder whether this borders the fray of "one or two spaces between sentences". Only kidding there, I do value your opinion!
                              Last edited by MJ Scribe; 08-28-2013, 11:59 AM. Reason: clarity, I hope
                              " Don't really like writing. But I do like having written." Vince Gilligan, Breaking Bad.

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                              • #90
                                Re: Screenplay pet peeves

                                Oh, Wordperfect X5. I used that for a while a few years ago, I even wrote a screenplay on it for a screenwriting course I was taking at my university. It worked well.

                                About the conversion, LibreOffice and Word convert differently depending on whether the "--" is surrounded by spaces or not:

                                space--space converts to en dash
                                word--word converts to em dash

                                Which makes sense because that's the way they're used, AFAIK (we don't have those in Spanish.)

                                As for the size of the em dash, it depends on the font you're using: in Times New Roman it's pretty long; in Courier-type fonts it's a bit longer than a regular dash, the same size as an "m".

                                I don't think anyone has a problem with a double dash instead of en or em dash.

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