Frustratingly unmarketable.

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  • #31
    Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

    Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
    I don't know, it seems to me, just hanging out on these boards, that the story goes like this:
    Not sure any lessons should be derived from the stories this particular forum generates. Better to look at the stories of the people who work frequently as professional screenwriters.

    Not too many of those around here. The "I got a rep!" and "I won a contest!" and "Someone optioned my spec!" stories in here frankly indicate nothing.

    Careers indicate everything.

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    • #32
      Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

      Originally posted by ToddC View Post
      A guy in his 50's won't get much sympathy I am afraid.
      Oh, please. Movies about men in their 50's... even ones that aren't Taken... get made.

      WRITE A GREAT SCRIPT.

      CALCULATE LESS.

      You guys are fiddling over demographic theories like cynical associates at sketchy production companies while The Descendants is winning Oscars.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

        Originally posted by Craig Mazin View Post
        Oh, please. Movies about men in their 50's... even ones that aren't Taken... get made.

        WRITE A GREAT SCRIPT.

        CALCULATE LESS.

        You guys are fiddling over demographic theories like cynical associates at sketchy production companies while The Descendants is winning Oscars.
        Hey Craig. You don't have to say please. Just disagree and move on.

        Honestly, I wasn't trying to be cynical with that. I was trying to be constructive. The character's age in this case is a subject of opinion. You are right when you say the "age" thing does not matter with a good story.
        But that comment was not a generalization. It was specific to his logline. I was thinking of the 20-somethings coming out of college and not having job prospects right now. They may not feel so sympathetic to this guy who is struggling near the end of his career.

        And I think everyone on this board has good opinions.
        Being a screenwriter is not enough for a full creative life. ~ William Goldman

        homeslice

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

          Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
          Good dialog, good writing, good story, but you'll never move it.
          I have the inverse problem. I have a marketable script with lots of mind-bending action sequences, but now its budget is too big.

          Just take comfort in knowing you'll be screwed regardless of its marketability.
          I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

            And I think everyone on this board has good opinions.
            Really? Okay.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

              "They may not feel so sympathetic to this guy who is struggling near the end of his career."

              First of all I agree my loglines tend to suck. I've always found them clunky and difficult to write and I'm working on it.

              The protagonist is 56 and is an award winning author who lost his wife in an auto accident five years ago. Since then he's only written pulp romance novels in order to survive. His home has been foreclosed and he's filed for bankruptcy. He relocates to the small town because he visited there with his wife on vacation once and works to finish up the sequel to the book that put him on top. With his advance he decides to take flying lessons at a small airport. His flight instructor is a pretty woman 20 years his junior with a five year old son who had to quit her career as an airline pilot to stay at home when her husband committed suicide due to the loss of his business during the recession.

              They fall in love with each other and the protag ditches his novel in lieu of the new inspiration she gives him and he writes a completely different book infuriating his agent and the publisher. He's castigated by the literary community and must give back the advance. She persuades him to pursue his new book with a small hole-in-the-wall regional agency. When the book receives critical acclaim and begins an upward movement in sales, he makes her an offer to facilitate getting her back on track as an airline pilot.

              Contrived? This really happened to a friend of mine in a similar manner just different particulars. Sympathy with a younger audience? - no. Know what a producer said who read it? - "I like it. Can you make the airplane crash?"
              Last edited by AE35-Unit; 10-22-2012, 04:14 AM.
              We gain our innocence by taking yours.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
                "They may not feel so sympathetic to this guy who is struggling near the end of his career."

                First of all I agree my loglines tend to suck. I've always found them clunky and difficult to write and I'm working on it.

                The protagonist is 56 and is an award winning author who lost his wife in an auto accident five years ago. Since then he's only written pulp romance novels in order to survive. His home has been foreclosed and he's filed for bankruptcy. He relocates to the small town because he visited there with his wife on vacation once and works to finish up the sequel to the book that put him on top. With his advance he decides to take flying lessons at a small airport. His flight instructor is a pretty woman 20 years his junior with a five year old son who had to quit her career as an airline pilot to stay at home when her husband committed suicide due to the loss of his business during the recession.

                They fall in love with each other and the protag ditches his novel in lieu of the new inspiration she gives him and he writes a completely different book infuriating his agent and the publisher. He's castigated by the literary community and must give back the advance. She persuades him to pursue his new book with a small hole-in-the-wall regional agency. When the book receives critical acclaim and begins an upward movement in sales, he makes her an offer to facilitate getting her back on track as an airline pilot.

                Contrived? This really happened to a friend of mine in a similar manner just different particulars. Sympathy with a younger audience? - no. Know what a producer said who read it? - "I like it. Can you make the airplane crash?"
                I'd love to read (and watch) something like that.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                  Originally posted by ToddC View Post
                  I was thinking of the 20-somethings coming out of college and not having job prospects right now. They may not feel so sympathetic to this guy who is struggling near the end of his career.
                  Perhaps fair enough if 20-somethings were the only ones feeling the pain. But the pain has spread to (and perhaps started with) 50-somethings too. Many are at the end of their so-called careers now because a 30-something canned them and they can't get another job. Or their job has moved to god knows where and the whole town is drying up.

                  Another group of 50-somethings may well never have an end to their 'careers' as they now need two if not three simultaneous 'careers' to make ends meet like they once did - to take care of a sick parent or a 20-something who has moved back home.

                  Maybe relatable on a couple of levels - 20-somethings seeing their parents going through this right now; 40s-50s saying this is/could be me.
                  Seven years dungeon --- no trials!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                    Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
                    "They may not feel so sympathetic to this guy who is struggling near the end of his career."

                    First of all I agree my loglines tend to suck. I've always found them clunky and difficult to write and I'm working on it.
                    The concepts seem fun to me, but the loglines threw me off a little. I was scrutinizing them because you said some folks weren't biting, and I'm currently doing the same with my own loglines. It's why I specifically pointed at the loglines you posted.

                    My ?s would be answered in your story, so I wanted to suggest my thoughts on it. I figure you'll consider or toss out whatever you decide. I'm sure discussing it with the forum helps you.
                    Being a screenwriter is not enough for a full creative life. ~ William Goldman

                    homeslice

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                      Discussing it with others who feel my pain certainly does help a great deal and I appreciate very much your candor and suggestions.
                      We gain our innocence by taking yours.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                        Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
                        "They may not feel so sympathetic to this guy who is struggling near the end of his career."

                        First of all I agree my loglines tend to suck. I've always found them clunky and difficult to write and I'm working on it.

                        The protagonist is 56 and is an award winning author who lost his wife in an auto accident five years ago. Since then he's only written pulp romance novels in order to survive. His home has been foreclosed and he's filed for bankruptcy. He relocates to the small town because he visited there with his wife on vacation once and works to finish up the sequel to the book that put him on top. With his advance he decides to take flying lessons at a small airport. His flight instructor is a pretty woman 20 years his junior with a five year old son who had to quit her career as an airline pilot to stay at home when her husband committed suicide due to the loss of his business during the recession.

                        They fall in love with each other and the protag ditches his novel in lieu of the new inspiration she gives him and he writes a completely different book infuriating his agent and the publisher. He's castigated by the literary community and must give back the advance. She persuades him to pursue his new book with a small hole-in-the-wall regional agency. When the book receives critical acclaim and begins an upward movement in sales, he makes her an offer to facilitate getting her back on track as an airline pilot.

                        Contrived? This really happened to a friend of mine in a similar manner just different particulars. Sympathy with a younger audience? - no. Know what a producer said who read it? - "I like it. Can you make the airplane crash?"
                        Isn't that actually a good note though?

                        My dad is much older and for some reason he's decided he wants to learn to fly a plane... It scares the hell out of myself and my mother because... well, he gets distracted while driving and he was in a fender-bender last year.

                        My point?

                        As a moviergo'er, I identify with your story. True story and I'm living it. But I still think, IMHO, the producer gave you a good note. If I'm watching your story, as you've told it, it sounds like a story about a man finding himself. I want to see the evolutionary next step in that sequence. What happens when the unthinkable occurs? When the man crashes the plane or possibly kills somebody? I want to see the result of the drama and the lesson to be learned from watching it.

                        Anyway, I'm just a voice on the message board...
                        life happens
                        despite a few cracked pots-
                        and random sunlight

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                          Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
                          "They may not feel so sympathetic to this guy who is struggling near the end of his career."

                          First of all I agree my loglines tend to suck. I've always found them clunky and difficult to write and I'm working on it.

                          The protagonist is 56 and is an award winning author who lost his wife in an auto accident five years ago...
                          I think what you are struggling with here is what we all deal with from time to time. Rejections from all angles can make you want to throw your hands up and yell, "What the hell do you people want from me?!?!?!"

                          I can see sticking to your guns and keeping what you have since no one that's offering these critiques is handing you a check to pay for your re-write, but I can also see where maybe it's time to take another look at your choices, turn things upside down, shake them like a snow globe, and see what happens.

                          Are you sure making the protagonist 56 is the best choice? Does it need to be a man? Would it be more compelling to more people if it were a woman? Life has more ticking clocks than retirement and midlife crises...even college aged or twentysomethings can decide to chuck it all or change their lives (Sweet Home Alabama, Garden State). Are you certain it HAS to be a guy close to retirement? If you're satisfied with your choices, why? And I think the answer has to be something better than "because that's what really happened."

                          As far as your loglines sucking, maybe that's true, but if the story's not there to begin with, no amount of logline finagling is going to make them golden. Try telling someone what your story is after you strip it down to its bare elements. Is it interesting then? Is it unique? If not, there's a problem with your story as a whole.

                          I find it helps to think of your favorite movies, or even some that aren't your favorite, but are extremely popular, then imagine yourself describing them to a 10 year old nephew that you want to take to the movies. How would you describe Dirty Dancing? Shrek? Star Wars? The Godfather? Now, do the same thing with your screenplays. The point is, no matter who the audience is for any particular movie, a logline should still be simple enough for a kid to understand what the movie's about and possibly get excited about. If it can't be done in a non-convoluted way, then again, you probably have more of a problem with your story than you do with your logline.
                          On Twitter @DeadManSkipping

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                            " What happens when the unthinkable occurs? When the man crashes the plane or possibly kills somebody? "


                            I see your point but this story is just a simple romance about two people finding love again. She becomes his new inspirational drive and his muse compelling him to begin again from the bottom. And he in turn becomes the key to regaining her career as a natural born pilot.

                            The interplay with the small town characters and the humorous aspects of the story would become too bogged down with an event like you suggested.

                            He's jeopardized what little future he may have already so I see no need in muddying the waters further with another life changing arch to the story.

                            I'm already dealing with a death late in Act 3 with her father, so I have to be careful as it is.

                            But I appreciate the comment.
                            We gain our innocence by taking yours.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                              "If it can't be done in a non-convoluted way, then again, you probably have more of a problem with your story than you do with your logline."

                              I need to clarify that it isn't my loglines that are the problem. I get reads and get good reactions even from sub-par loglines.

                              The problem is the stories themselves being "unmarketable". And again it isn't because they are poorly written - not that I'm a perfect writer or anything.

                              I think the one comment I read that sticks is direct marketing to an indy producer for my specific idea and not neccassarily genre slot.
                              Last edited by AE35-Unit; 10-22-2012, 06:23 AM.
                              We gain our innocence by taking yours.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Frustratingly unmarketable.

                                Suggesting the protagonist crash the plane is an idiotic note if it has nothing to do with the story.

                                It's the mindset of someone who just wants to sell popcorn and fill seats and disregards the writers theme, his reason for writing the story and the protagonists journey.

                                You don't just add a plane crash.

                                That's like saying people love chocolate why not throw some chocolate into that soup.

                                It's moronic and disrespectful of the writer. But in a business that doesn't respect the writer, not surprising.

                                Everything in a story has to make sense. If his competency is at issue then a plane crash might work but it seems evident that's not the case.

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