Log The Line... LOGLINES

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

    Originally posted by dpaterso View Post
    Is it really enough for a spec screenplay logline from an unknown aspiring screenwriter to say, "It's basically about this" with no details? Preposterous.
    Finally, another voice besides my own on this topic. Listening to only ME, I was beginning to bore myself and that's not easy because I love the sound of my own voice.

    I gotta take a shot break from Done Deal and finish my screenplay.

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

      Originally posted by dpaterso View Post
      Everyone knows every goddamn detail of JAWS. That's the only reason that short logline works. ...
      In my opinion, no, the logline (with the title) works on its own.

      Jaws:
      A New England Resort Community is menaced by a great white shark.

      That's the movie in a nutshell — the problem that needs to be solved. What else do you need to know? I saw Jaws years ago (never really wanted to see it again). What do I remember about it? A huge shark going ballistic on the shores of a small town. I had completely forgotten that the police chief was afraid of water. That was side issue. The movie was about the shark.

      Ditto for another of his examples...

      Devil's Advocate:
      A lawyer discovers that he's actually working for Satan.
      STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

        Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
        Centos, you're entitled to your opinion.
        Well, thanks. I'll try to get to your long post a bit later and probably respond to it (unless I feel I've already said everything that I need to say).

        (EDIT:I see the long response was to Bono, so good... done then.)
        Last edited by Centos; 05-16-2019, 01:07 PM. Reason: Clarification
        STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

          I didn't read any of this since my last post... I just saw a lot of back and forth and I really thought my great Few Good Men spoof would save the day, but to no avail. You guys are zero fun btw!!!

          All I know is a lot of people are giving me the opinions of other pros or teachers or what have you... which is fine and great. And I never once said there was zero value or wisdom in their words. But that's step 1. Step 2-10 is trying to sell your work with your own logline!!!

          I'm not a newbie. And I'm not worried about running a class and making sure every single post is a thesis statement on my thoughts about loglines with footnotes.

          I'm giving you my opinion based on 20 years of learning what a logline is from many many sources, the biggest being writing my own and actually querying with them to see what works. Practice.

          My friend is a doctor. He went to like 8 years of medical school and on his first day he said he didnt' know ****. Now 10 years later, he's just figuring out how to be a great doctor -- that's how it works! Some things you can't truly learn until you do them.

          Arguing what logline is best for a movie that already is made, let alone a hit, is helpful for a book to teach a newbie what a logline is, but that's it. It's not helpful to me, you and world war 3 (Bono deep drop there...)

          But how come some of you will listen to people with more experience than you, but that doesn't include me and other writers on this board who have found success writing loglines and getting read and getting repped and making some money to back up that I don't entirely stink?

          Chris Lockhart for one never had to do what me and you will have to do. Write a spec and then write a logline to go sell it... So his opinion is fine, but it's not the same as when a writer goes from newbie to spec sale. (I know he had some movies now to his credit, but that's after 30 years of working at WME so he did not break in the way you will person reading this...)

          And that's always always been my point. To win the logline argument is to prove it on the field. Not in the practice room. Go out there and do it, please.

          This is for everyone. Go write your screenplays everyone. And focus on how to sell your script with a great logine for a movie no one has seen! No actors are in it! One that hasn't been on TV for over 40 years... That takes talent. We all can figure out a great logline for JAWS.

          And something few people say is you can't write a great logline to a bad idea. The make great trailers out of terrible movies, but you can't put cool music until your logline or put a big name actor in it. All you have is the words. So consider that. You could have a perfect logline for a terrible movie idea. That gets left out a lot. Because when they give you loglines to only hit movies, that clouds your judgement that your logline to your script if I fill in the same _____ then I'm on the same level as those movies. No No No.

          Now if I did my job right, I inspired 1 of you and pissed off the other 10 people reading this. I'll take the 1 as a win.

          Good luck to all.

          Thread drop.

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

            Originally posted by Centos View Post
            Jaws:
            A New England Resort Community is menaced by a great white shark.
            Before JAWS no one even knew what a great white shark was. Hey was anyone actually there when JAWS got pitched? Is that the actual logline that was used? If no, maybe we should stop talking about it as if it's gospel.

            Originally posted by Centos View Post
            Devil's Advocate:
            A lawyer discovers that he's actually working for Satan.
            They all work for Satan! But we all know it's Al Pacino and Keanu so that short logline also gets considerable extra help.

            I am not convinced that loglines that size and lacking specific details are going to work for unknowns, but that's okay, you don't have to convince me. Feel free to prove me wrong, though.

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

              Originally posted by dpaterso View Post
              I am not convinced that loglines that size and lacking specific details are going to work for unknowns, but that's okay, you don't have to convince me. Feel free to prove me wrong, though.
              Alright, for what it's worth... here's a logline I worked up for an idea I've had for a while. I wrote the first seven pages as a short, years ago, but saw potential for a possible full script or novella/novel.

              Warp Holes
              A twelve year-old discovers reality-shifting warp holes and finds he's the only one who can save the father he thought was dead.
              Last edited by Centos; 05-16-2019, 01:28 PM. Reason: Changed the title ... again ... and back again.
              STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

                By prove me wrong I meant send it out there and see if it tickles interest. Write the next 103 pages and make it happen!

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

                  Originally posted by dpaterso View Post
                  By prove me wrong I meant send it out there and see if it tickles interest. Write the next 103 pages and make it happen!
                  Oh... you mean... work? Yeah... umm... I'll get back to you on that.
                  STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

                    Piper: Order. Order. Order on the board.

                    DD: You’re not the moderator. You lack the authority to call the board to order.

                    Piper: Then I will get on with it and speak the truth.

                    In summary, after a very long discussion, with ample reference to pros and “experts”, we can only agree that the purpose of a logline for a finished screenplay is to convince gatekeepers and decision makers to read your screenplay. But we can’t agree on the number of words in or the content of a logline.

                    We agree there is no set limit to word count, but too many words will turn off many potential logline readers. Two sentences and fifty words seems to be the limit.

                    We can’t agree on what information a logline should contain. The content depends upon what limited information the logline audience wants to know about your screenplay. Do they want to know the premise, the protagonist, the protag’s goal, the antagonist, the stakes? All? Some? One? None?

                    Who among us has the final answers?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

                      Originally posted by jonpiper View Post
                      But we can’t agree on the number of words in or the content of a logline.
                      ...
                      Two sentences and fifty words seems to be the limit.
                      Oh no you don't! I see what you did there!

                      1 sentence, 25-ish words!

                      Originally posted by jonpiper View Post
                      Who among us has the final answers?
                      Indeed. All we can hope for is the best advice, instead.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

                        Originally posted by dpaterso View Post
                        Oh no you don't! I see what you did there!

                        1 sentence, 25-ish words!


                        Indeed. All we can hope for is the best advice, instead.
                        Okay. Sorry, I misspoke the truth, dpat. A good 50 words max. in 1 or 2 sentences is better than a forced one sentence 25 word logline.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

                          Originally posted by Centos View Post
                          Alright, for what it's worth... here's a logline I worked up for an idea I've had for a while. I wrote the first seven pages as a short, years ago, but saw potential for a possible full script or novella/novel.

                          Warp Holes
                          A twelve year-old discovers reality-shifting warp holes and finds he's the only one who can save the father he thought was dead.
                          My two cents -- there's no connective tissue between the first part of the idea -- discovering the warp holes, and the second part of the idea -- saving his father who he thought was dead.

                          I mean, I'm guessing that the warp holes had something to do with why he must have thought that he was dead -- maybe dad fell through one of the warp holes into whatever was on the other side? Or maybe his father created or discovered of found the warp holes originally and everyone thought he was lost and the kid both discovers the warp holes and accidentally "releases" them but in the process also discovers that his dad is alive but now he needs to find his Dad to stop whatever the warp holes are causing or whatever is coming through the warp holes -- Or something?

                          But it ain't my job to figure that out, because honestly, I've got other things to do -- like moving on to some other, better formulated log line.

                          You see? This is all kind of formulaic stuff. All been-there-done-that stuff.

                          Here's the deal with log lines. A term from advertising.

                          USP.

                          Unique Selling Point.

                          What is it about your idea, the idea embodied in your log line that makes it special and unique and uniquely marketable that will make rise up above all of those hundreds and thousands of other log lines?

                          Because that is what your log line is. It is a marketing tool. It is designed to market your screenplay, to make people want to read it.

                          So, to start off with, the log line first has to be readable in itself. It has to make a reader want to read it. Twenty five words. Fifty words. One sentence, two sentences. Who cares? So long as it grabs the reader's attention and makes you want to read it and read whatever it's describing.

                          NMS

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

                            Originally posted by nmstevens View Post
                            My two cents -- there's no connective tissue between the first part of the idea -- discovering the warp holes, and the second part of the idea -- saving his father who he thought was dead.
                            Thanks for the criticism and advice. You're right (in the non-quoted part of your post) I was figuring the reader would fill in the "connective tissue." And, yes, similar stuff has already been done, and there really isn't any unique selling point, because the story (I'm afraid) is not that unique. I just liked the character a lot and thought he could carry the story... but how do you say that in a logline? (And who would believe you?)

                            Again, thanks for taking the time to read and comment on this psuedo-logline-ish sort of thing.
                            STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

                              In the Logline forum, jonpiper gave a suggested logline to the OP suggesting for the focus to be just on the antagonist and not to include the protagonist, or his goal elements in the logline.

                              When I pointed out to jonpiper that his suggested logline was misleading because it gave the impression that the antagonist was the protagonist/anti-hero of the OPs' story, he replied:

                              "in my opinion, nobody knows what ingredients a logline for a given screenplay must have to attract the most readers and decision to that screenplay.-

                              jonpiper says, "nobody knows.-

                              I wanted to address this, but I didn't want to derail the OP's thread, so I'm gonna discuss it here.

                              It's been said time and time again that the basic ingredients (elements) that are required in a logline to attract readers are: protagonist, protagonist's goal and antagonist force.

                              If someone wants to include these elements in a logline, is a different story.

                              All one has to do is look at written loglines from writers and they'll see it includes these three basic elements.

                              For example, in a past thread called "Open Query letters to Michael B,- a hundred members posted a hundred loglines for Michael, an industry manager, to give his opinion if any were commercially worthy enough for the industry.

                              jonpiper, if you'd look at those hundred loglines, you'll be hard pressed to find one that will not have included these three basic elements, so, this to me, means that writers DO KNOW what "ingredients- a logline must have to attract readers.

                              I don't know of a screenplay that doesn't have a hero, or anti-hero with a goal. Also, it's very rare to find a screenplay that doesn't have some type of antagonist force. The closest I can think of would be GRACE IS GONE.

                              Logline:

                              When a Midwestern father learns his army wife was killed in the Iraq war, he must come to terms with this devastating news before he could tell his two young daughters about their mother's fate, so he delays by taking them on a road trip to their favorite amusement park in Florida.

                              GRACE IS GONE doesn't have a clear antagonist, but you could say the antagonist is himself where he must cope and accept that his wife is gone.

                              In this thread and others there have been some members who have given examples of loglines with just the antagonist and excluded the protagonist and his goal, saying this was an effective way to get industry reads.

                              Do I believe this is possible? Sure, anything is possible, but I believe it's also possible that it would turn off some industry people because the logline wasn't clear on who the protagonist and the goal of the story.

                              With a logline having at least the three basic elements, I believe an industry person would have no other reason but the concept itself not interesting them, rather than an incomplete logline not getting across to them the "A- throughline of the story.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

                                Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                                In the Logline forum, jonpiper gave a suggested logline to the OP suggesting for the focus to be just on the antagonist and not to include the protagonist, or his goal elements in the logline.

                                When I pointed out to jonpiper that his suggested logline was misleading because it gave the impression that the antagonist was the protagonist/anti-hero of the OPs' story, he replied:

                                "in my opinion, nobody knows what ingredients a logline for a given screenplay must have to attract the most readers and decision to that screenplay.-

                                jonpiper says, "nobody knows.-

                                I wanted to address this, but I didn't want to derail the OP's thread, so I'm gonna discuss it here.

                                It's been said time and time again that the basic ingredients (elements) that are required in a logline to attract readers are: protagonist, protagonist's goal and antagonist force.

                                If someone wants to include these elements in a logline, is a different story.

                                All one has to do is look at written loglines from writers and they'll see it includes these three basic elements.

                                For example, in a past thread called "Open Query letters to Michael B,- a hundred members posted a hundred loglines for Michael, an industry manager, to give his opinion if any were commercially worthy enough for the industry.

                                jonpiper, if you'd look at those hundred loglines, you'll be hard pressed to find one that will not have included these three basic elements, so, this to me, means that writers DO KNOW what "ingredients- a logline must have to attract readers.

                                I don't know of a screenplay that doesn't have a hero, or anti-hero with a goal. Also, it's very rare to find a screenplay that doesn't have some type of antagonist force. The closest I can think of would be GRACE IS GONE.

                                Logline:

                                When a Midwestern father learns his army wife was killed in the Iraq war, he must come to terms with this devastating news before he could tell his two young daughters about their mother's fate, so he delays by taking them on a road trip to their favorite amusement park in Florida.

                                GRACE IS GONE doesn't have a clear antagonist, but you could say the antagonist is himself where he must cope and accept that his wife is gone.

                                In this thread and others there have been some members who have given examples of loglines with just the antagonist and excluded the protagonist and his goal, saying this was an effective way to get industry reads.

                                Do I believe this is possible? Sure, anything is possible, but I believe it's also possible that it would turn off some industry people because the logline wasn't clear on who the protagonist and the goal of the story.

                                With a logline having at least the three basic elements, I believe an industry person would have no other reason but the concept itself not interesting them, rather than an incomplete logline not getting across to them the "A- throughline of the story.
                                Joe, you said, "With a logline having at least the three basic elements, I believe an industry person would have no other reason but the concept itself not interesting them, rather than an incomplete logline not getting across to them the "A- throughline of the story.-

                                Joe, your whole argument seems grounded on yours and Michael B's opinions that some "industry people- would be turned off by any logline that lacked a protagonist and the protagonist's goal. They would refuse to read your screenplay based on that assumption.

                                You are entitled to your opinion. Is it supported by reality? Do Readers and Industry decision makers refuse to request screenplays when the logline submitted with the query lacks a protagonist and the protagonist's goal.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X