TV protagonist goals

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  • TV protagonist goals

    Hi guys and girls, thanks to your contributions in my previous thread I have a better understanding of the EXTERNAL WANT vs INTERNAL NEED concept. However, are there any good examples of this seen on contemporary television?

    I tried to dissect the goals of some of my favourite TV heroes but I'm finding it more difficult than expected.

    For example, I analysed Friday Night Lights as follows: Coach Taylor WANTS to prioritise his home life around his career as the coach of the Dillon Panthers. But he NEEDS to understand that he'll never be able to fulfil his role as husband and father if he continues to Coach in Dillon.

    I also wrote this for Banshee: Lucas Hood WANTS to put his old life behind him and start a new life under a new identity. But he NEEDS to realise that in order to truly move on, he has to deal with the ghosts of his past.

    I don't know if these are correct or not, but it was just what I came up with. Do any of you have more examples? Thank you.

  • #2
    Re: TV protagonist goals

    When I think internal need I think of something the character wants for him or herself. The internal need or desire drives them to do and want things externally. When I read yours it read more like character realizations or character arcs? You may have been asking for something else and my interpretation was wrong -- wouldn't be the first time

    My examples of external wants vs. internal needs:

    Buffy wants to stop all the supernatural beings in Sunnydale so she can just be a normal high school girl.

    Walter White wants to sell his drug to make lots of money to ensure his family is taken care of when he's gone.

    Dexter must kill people in secret so he can continue to feed his inner dark passenger.

    Phillip and Elizabeth Jennings must carry out dangerous missions in the U.S. to fulfill their allegiance to their home country, Russia.

    Alicia Florrick wants to return to practicing law to rebuild her life after her husband's cheating scandal.
    Quack.

    Writer on a cable drama.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: TV protagonist goals

      This sounds more like what the character says they need/want vs what they don't know they need/want.

      Walter White says he wants to earn money to take care of his family, but what he really needs is to feel powerful. That hidden need drives him more than his stated want, and is the ultimate engine behind the tragedy he brings upon himself.

      Is that kind of the idea?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: TV protagonist goals

        Originally posted by omjs View Post
        This sounds more like what the character says they need/want vs what they don't know they need/want.

        Walter White says he wants to earn money to take care of his family, but what he really needs is to feel powerful. That hidden need drives him more than his stated want, and is the ultimate engine behind the tragedy he brings upon himself.

        Is that kind of the idea?
        I think WW evolved to that for sure. But initially in the pilot it was to cook meth, sell it, make money for treatment and the family. Then later he got caught up in the empire and power.
        Quack.

        Writer on a cable drama.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: TV protagonist goals

          Yes, I was referring to that "hidden" need. I know some people also call it the conscious desire vs unconscious desire.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: TV protagonist goals

            The whole what they "want" and what they "need", was always a little confusing to me too. I honestly wouldn't over think it, it might make it seem forced or stale. Just think about the characters emotional goals or emotional arc. What do they want "out of life", I mean really want emotionally...they might want power, redemption, revenge...to be really loved, to be accepted. This is different from the plot. Sometimes people refer to it as plot verses story (emotional story). So I guess plot/want is like story/need. I guess it's the wording of "what they need", that throws me off, when it's really just their emotional arc.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: TV protagonist goals

              Originally posted by ducky1288 View Post
              I think WW evolved to that for sure. But initially in the pilot it was to cook meth, sell it, make money for treatment and the family. Then later he got caught up in the empire and power.
              True, but WW is driven by his desire to take care of his treatment on his own without help from anybody. They establish this pretty early in season one when his rich friends offer to pay for his treatment, but he refuses and continues to cook because he wants to make his own money. This all comes from the backstory of his failed romance with Gretchen and selling his share of the company for next to nothing, both of which set him on the path to the mundane life of a high school chemistry teacher.

              Basically, WW needs to be his own man.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: TV protagonist goals

                The WANT vs NEED thing is, IMO, a tool or technique used primarily in features, and is of little use in TV. Features are all about the most important series of events in a character's life as opposed to TV where the focus is about the period of time where a group of characters are at their best.

                While many TV shows utilize a main character or two, they tend to really flesh out a group of characters unlike features, which given their approx. 2 hour limitation focus on one or possibly two characters.

                Over the last couple of years I've seen many feature writers attempt to transition to TV, and some of the underlying assumptions and techniques just don't translate. The single main character is one of the big stumbling blocks. A series relies on a group of characters to flesh out the world of the series. I discussed this in a blog post on Virtual Pitchfest.

                Think about the marketing for a feature as opposed to TV series. The one-sheet for a feature will usually have one or two characters displayed, whereas a series will show a group of characters. To really hammer this home, go back and look at the early marketing for THE BIG BANG THEORY. Initially it was a 3-hander, but has now grown into a true ensemble.

                BREAKING BAD does have a central main character, but the success of the series rests on the rich tapestry of the ensemble.

                Want vs. Need can really limit you in TV. In the original LETHAL WEAPON Riggs' "want" was to commit suicide, but his need was to find a new family since his was taken away from him. Ultimately he chooses to become part of Murtaugh's family and puts to rest his "want" to kill himself.

                These binary choices are difficult to maintain in a series that should be designed to last 100+ episodes. The better choice is to find the friction points between characters, and play that out over and over again.

                HTH,
                Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.

                -Steve Trautmann
                3rd & Fairfax: The WGAW Podcast

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: TV protagonist goals

                  Originally posted by KitchonaSteve View Post
                  The WANT vs NEED thing is, IMO, a tool or technique used primarily in features, and is of little use in TV. Features are all about the most important series of events in a character's life as opposed to TV where the focus is about the period of time where a group of characters are at their best.

                  While many TV shows utilize a main character or two, they tend to really flesh out a group of characters unlike features, which given their approx. 2 hour limitation focus on one or possibly two characters.

                  Over the last couple of years I've seen many feature writers attempt to transition to TV, and some of the underlying assumptions and techniques just don't translate. The single main character is one of the big stumbling blocks. A series relies on a group of characters to flesh out the world of the series. I discussed this in a blog post on Virtual Pitchfest.

                  Think about the marketing for a feature as opposed to TV series. The one-sheet for a feature will usually have one or two characters displayed, whereas a series will show a group of characters. To really hammer this home, go back and look at the early marketing for THE BIG BANG THEORY. Initially it was a 3-hander, but has now grown into a true ensemble.

                  BREAKING BAD does have a central main character, but the success of the series rests on the rich tapestry of the ensemble.

                  Want vs. Need can really limit you in TV. In the original LETHAL WEAPON Riggs' "want" was to commit suicide, but his need was to find a new family since his was taken away from him. Ultimately he chooses to become part of Murtaugh's family and puts to rest his "want" to kill himself.

                  These binary choices are difficult to maintain in a series that should be designed to last 100+ episodes. The better choice is to find the friction points between characters, and play that out over and over again.

                  HTH,
                  I 100% agree with this.

                  Also everyone's interpretation of different aspects of a TV show varies depending on if you're looking at a show in its entirety or just the first season.

                  I work on a third season of a show and the characters evolve mentally from season to season -- especially hen you start discussing how they change after specific events happen in their world.
                  Quack.

                  Writer on a cable drama.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: TV protagonist goals

                    ^ interesting stuff. I've been doing some more "research" on it and yes, the general belief is that TV protagonists don't really change.

                    That makes sense for sitcoms and procedurals but what about serials with multiple seasons, like Sons of Anarchy, or limited series/anthology series like True Detective. On both shows it seems (to me at least) that the main characters definitely undergo visible changes more akin to film characters.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: TV protagonist goals

                      Originally posted by Syringe View Post
                      That makes sense for sitcoms and procedurals but what about serials with multiple seasons, like Sons of Anarchy, or limited series/anthology series like True Detective. On both shows it seems (to me at least) that the main characters definitely undergo visible changes more akin to film characters.
                      Limited and anthology series are special cases and march to their own beat. They aren't concerned with maintaining their characters over multiple seasons.

                      Serialized shows sometimes do develop their characters, but they tend to do it over the course of a season or two. The real development tends to be the relationships between the characters. That's where you can have your fun, and audiences tend to like a little soap opera.

                      HTH,
                      Last edited by KitchonaSteve; 09-03-2016, 01:05 PM. Reason: typo & formatting
                      Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.

                      -Steve Trautmann
                      3rd & Fairfax: The WGAW Podcast

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: TV protagonist goals

                        ^ gotcha, thanks for the input. It's very interesting and helpful being a member here and gaining knowledge and opinions from everyone. Ive been developing my first ever idea and continue to discover that I'm going about it all the wrong ways. However, I can't complain either because all of the mistakes I'm making also teach me what I should be doing when I go on to develop my next story.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: TV protagonist goals

                          Originally posted by KitchonaSteve View Post
                          The WANT vs NEED thing is, IMO, a tool or technique used primarily in features, and is of little use in TV. Features are all about the most important series of events in a character's life as opposed to TV where the focus is about the period of time where a group of characters are at their best.

                          While many TV shows utilize a main character or two, they tend to really flesh out a group of characters unlike features, which given their approx. 2 hour limitation focus on one or possibly two characters.

                          Over the last couple of years I've seen many feature writers attempt to transition to TV, and some of the underlying assumptions and techniques just don't translate. The single main character is one of the big stumbling blocks. A series relies on a group of characters to flesh out the world of the series. I discussed this in a blog post on Virtual Pitchfest.

                          Think about the marketing for a feature as opposed to TV series. The one-sheet for a feature will usually have one or two characters displayed, whereas a series will show a group of characters. To really hammer this home, go back and look at the early marketing for THE BIG BANG THEORY. Initially it was a 3-hander, but has now grown into a true ensemble.

                          BREAKING BAD does have a central main character, but the success of the series rests on the rich tapestry of the ensemble.

                          Want vs. Need can really limit you in TV. In the original LETHAL WEAPON Riggs' "want" was to commit suicide, but his need was to find a new family since his was taken away from him. Ultimately he chooses to become part of Murtaugh's family and puts to rest his "want" to kill himself.

                          These binary choices are difficult to maintain in a series that should be designed to last 100+ episodes. The better choice is to find the friction points between characters, and play that out over and over again.

                          HTH,
                          Great article, Steve. Thanks for sharing!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: TV protagonist goals

                            I agree with KitchonaSteve. I'm primarily a feature writer, and wrote my first TV Pilot touted on Black List as, even a third of this pilot would be nothing short of the most monumental undertaking in network history, yeah, I know, that's not a good thing-- but the review outside the budget wasn't so bad, #5 for the month. Review is here, if anyone's interested. http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...ad.php?t=81387

                            Want vs Need has to do with external goals in internal needs. The internal needs are all about the character arc, but the most successful character arcs are the ones when the "want" is in direct conflict with the "need."

                            And often, the character doesn't even know what his actual need is, which when they fulfill it makes for a strong final arc.

                            In TV the character cannot make that transition and "arc" to his true essence, because if he succeeded the show would be over. We want to see the struggle over and over and over again, but they cannot succeed. They always have to be chasing a "want" and they fail at ever growing into their "need."

                            One of my favorite TV characters who is the epitome of this failure is Jaime Lanister. Throughout his entire journey there are these moments when he is completely humanized but his "wants" always get in the way of his success. He's such a treacherous bloke-- I mean one minute you're falling in love with him then you despise him. I love to hate him.

                            Lost is another good example. For six seasons we lived with hope and disappointment with ALL the characters. No one got what they needed. And if they did, another good trick of TV, it never lasts and they just fall back into their same old bad habits.

                            Now for features, take a look at Rainman, right? All Charlie Babbitt wants is to bury the father that disowned and abandoned him and just get his cars through customs. What he needs is to reconnect with the only living family member of his family left. That's the only thing that will fill the quarry sized, emptiness in his heart. It's the only thing that will fulfill him.

                            So, we set out on a journey with a selfish man that must learn that what others need from him is more important than the material things he surrounds himself with that "make him someone."

                            And the thing is, they're both a different kind of writing.

                            And because TV focuses so much on relationships, I find them a lot more talkie. You have to be careful of allowing what makes each strong bleed into the other because that could be a big weakness.

                            Also, I would say that since features are so focused on the external goal, that they are more plot driven. Features chew through story fast-- a race to get to the end as quickly as possible.

                            And that's the reason, personally, that I have a tendency to give up on TV shows and prefer the bingy 8 episode series-- I get so bored, over time with it not going anywhere and just repeating the same episodes with different characters.

                            I think that's why I love GOT, right? The world is so huge and you only get to see smidgets of each story, keeps the interest level high.

                            Every episode, I'm like, is this the episode with the dragons? Where are the dragons? They said there'd be dragons.
                            "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: TV protagonist goals

                              ^ wow, thank you so much for sharing your experience/knowledge, I'm very grateful.

                              I appreciate all of you for your input and helping out a novice like myself

                              I do have another question that some of you might be able to help me with.

                              Regarding the supporting characters in a serialised TV series, to what extent does each character's goal have to stem from the main character and what he/she is trying to achieve?

                              For example, if we look at Sons of Anarchy, we have Jax who is trying to steer his motorcycle club in a new direction and fulfil his father's wishes.

                              Now, out of that scenario we have:
                              1) Clay who wants control of the club and to keep it in the direction that it's moving towards.
                              2) Gemma who is trying to keep Jax by her side and prevent him from walking the same path as his father.
                              3) Tara who is trying to take care of herself and her children by encouraging Jax to leave the club behind and move on.
                              4) The other members of the club struggling to do whatever Jax or Clay ask of them.

                              So it seems that in this instance, the goals of all the characters in SOA are "products" of Jax' goal. Is this how all TV dramas function? Or can supporting characters have their own goals independent of what the main character is trying to achieve?

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