Satire

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  • #16
    Re: Satire

    Originally posted by polfilmblog View Post
    I'm also surprised Meaning of Life hasn't shown up. I suppose Wag the Dog is another. Dr. Strangelove. I'll think of some more as soon as I hit post, I'm sure.
    Originally posted by DavidK View Post
    Dr. Strangelove, M.A.S.H. and Wag the Dog are excellent examples of satire. American Beauty? Bob Roberts? Such Good Friends? When you look for genuine satirical films they are few and hard to find - many films referred to as satirical are actually parodies or spoofs.
    One thing to keep in mind about Dr. Strangelove is that we (the audience) had a proxy, in the form of Group Captain Mandrake.

    It's hard to imagine that movie without him, if only because he was necessary for us to hear everything that Gen. Ripper had to say. But he was there expressing shock and disbelief in everything that was happening.

    Unfortunately, I don't recall any of the other movies well enough to say if they also provided proxies.

    I'm not saying a proxy is necessary. But if you worry about your reader misconstruing things, I think a proxy can help you keep things right.

    And going in the opposite direction, with The Meaning of Life, you start with Monty Python, so there's no danger that anyone will think this is serious. IOW, try to give your reader something, a calibration point: Someone clearly sane and normal; or, someone or something clearly over-the-top.

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    • #17
      Re: Satire

      Originally posted by Manchester View Post
      I'm not saying a proxy is necessary. But if you worry about your reader misconstruing things, I think a proxy can help you keep things right.
      I think you're right and this is one of the things that makes satire more difficult. In satire the characters and performances can be completely deadpan, there is no indication from the characters or self-awareness of how ridiculous the situation is, there is no obvious funny so the writer or director depend on the audience being able to interpret the satire and see beyond just silly. In that sense I agree that having a 'proxy' such as Mandrake helps greatly in avoiding the reader or audience misconstruing the film's intentions. In other forms of comedy things are more blatant, more obvious. Satire imposes greater challenges.
      "Friends make the worst enemies." Frank Underwood

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      • #18
        Re: Satire

        Originally posted by DavidK View Post
        I think you're right and this is one of the things that makes satire more difficult. In satire the characters and performances can be completely deadpan, there is no indication from the characters or self-awareness of how ridiculous the situation is, there is no obvious funny so the writer or director depend on the audience being able to interpret the satire and see beyond just silly. In that sense I agree that having a 'proxy' such as Mandrake helps greatly in avoiding the reader or audience misconstruing the film's intentions. In other forms of comedy things are more blatant, more obvious. Satire imposes greater challenges.
        These are good, well-reasoned points. However, I think a good argument could be made that the two, satire and parody, are not necessarily mutually exclusive. That is, a satirical story may include parody, and vice versa. M*A*S*H's Klinger character, for an example.

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        • #19
          Re: Satire

          Originally posted by bioprofessor View Post
          These are good, well-reasoned points. However, I think a good argument could be made that the two, satire and parody, are not necessarily mutually exclusive. That is, a satirical story may include parody, and vice versa. M*A*S*H's Klinger character, for an example.
          I don't know that David said that they are "mutually exclusive".

          In any event, I think that one thing that helped make Mandrake work as a character in a comedy that happened to be a satire, while also serving as our sanity-blessed proxy, was that he was a "parody" character. A "stiff upper lip", "cheerio" sort of British man. Taking everything in stride, never losing his cool. Taking the Alec Guinness character, Colonel Nicholson, from "The Bridge on the River Kwai" (1957) and putting him in Gen. Ripper's office.
          Last edited by Manchester; 05-06-2014, 06:42 AM.

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          • #20
            Re: Satire

            Originally posted by Manchester View Post
            I don't know that David said that they are "mutually exclusive".

            In any event, I think that one thing that helped make Mandrake work as a character in a comedy that happened to be a satire, while also serving as our sanity-blessed proxy, was that he was a "parody" character. A "stiff upper lip", "cheerio" sort of British man. Taking everything in stride, never losing his cool. Taking the Alec Guinness character, Colonel Nicholson, from "The Bridge on the River Kwai" (1957) and putting him in Gen. Ripper's office.
            Perhaps not, but I wanted to make the point that including "slap stick" or physical comedy in a film does not necessarily disqualify it from being satirical.

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