Lotsa talking in the middle

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  • Lotsa talking in the middle

    This might be irrelevant, but caught my attention.

    It's my third script in a row where somewhere around the middle of the film there's a sudden outburst of information -- people talking, reading, revealing. Action stops. New info appears.

    I don't trust any Snyderish formulas, but it seems it's common. Star Wars come to mind with the moment when they explain the Death Star and how to destroy it. Or Egyptian conferences in Indiana Jones.

    Have you noticed something similar?

  • #2
    Re: Lotsa talking in the middle

    the "second act sag"

    http://gideonsway.wordpress.com/2010...f-your-script/

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    • #3
      Re: Lotsa talking in the middle

      The Second Act Sag may well be the issue. Another possibility is that you need to do a big, story-stopping information dump at that point in your scripts because the audience will need that information then to understand what's going on, why, and what has to happen next. You have to pace yourself with information dumping. Sneak some of what the audience will need to know in jokes and non-obvious comments and clues all through the story so you never need to dump too much at one time. Don't give people a dump of info long before they are going to need it. Space it out so they're always curious, always wanting a little more, needing to turn the page to find answers to their unanswered questions.

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      • #4
        Re: Lotsa talking in the middle

        This is common for the midpoint. The fundamental spine of the narrative shifts there. You had the entire set-up to get the first half of the script rolling, and now you have just one plot point to start the engines of the second half.

        It's not a bad thing unless it's boring.

        In the middle of Back to the Future, Doc Brown just talks his way through figuring out that a bolt of lightning can power the Flux Capacitor, and then tells Marty that he has to set his parents up or risk non-existence. One chunk of dialogue establishes the two goals that drive the second half.

        But Joan is definitely right. If you can sprinkle information throughout, instead of dumping it at the midpoint, then your script will flow better. One example is Jurassic Park. The raptors aren't the primary antagonists until late in the movie, but they were established throughout the first half (1. During the teaser "Shoot 'er!!!" 2. When we first meet Grant "The point is, you are alive when they begin to eat you." 3. At the raptor compound "They were testing the fences, looking for weaknesses. They remember."). We get it! Raptors are smart and bad!

        Imagine how clunky it would have been if, after the park shuts down, Grant stops all the action and tells the kids, "Now, we have to watch out for raptors. They're the worst."

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        • #5
          Re: Lotsa talking in the middle

          "I don't trust any Snyderish formulas, but it seems it's common"

          Perhaps try trusting it.

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          • #6
            Re: Lotsa talking in the middle

            Use the talk to figure out the characters' goal and motivations. Use it to discover structure. Sequences are essentially when a character makes a strong new choice to go in a different direction literally or figuratively.

            Then with the new perspective, you can turn talk into action, you can translate beats into visuals. You can also look for transitions and ellipses and chances to be in late, out early to trim fat. You can turn some exposition into conflict. And you can just cut some stuff out that we won't miss.

            This is all part of the process. If we thought in terms of drama and visuals as easily as we think in terms of dialogue, we would all be master storytellers from the get-go. ;-)

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            • #7
              Re: Lotsa talking in the middle

              Originally posted by Nat Palazzo View Post
              "I don't trust any Snyderish formulas, but it seems it's common"

              Perhaps try trusting it.
              Or not.

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              • #8
                Re: Lotsa talking in the middle

                Originally posted by Jim Mercurio View Post
                Use the talk to figure out the characters' goal and motivations. Use it to discover structure. Sequences are essentially when a character makes a strong new choice to go in a different direction literally or figuratively.

                Then with the new perspective, you can turn talk into action, you can translate beats into visuals. You can also look for transitions and ellipses and chances to be in late, out early to trim fat. You can turn some exposition into conflict. And you can just cut some stuff out that we won't miss.

                This is all part of the process. If we thought in terms of drama and visuals as easily as we think in terms of dialogue, we would all be master storytellers from the get-go. ;-)
                That is one of those posts that... As I read it, I went "Yeh, of course" - except, I'd never actually thought of it in that organized way. As a process; from too-talky, and then to visual. Thanks.

                I want to keep that in mind also as I'm reading other writers' scripts, when they've asked me for notes. Often when I've seen too-talky, I've zoned out. Now I see why I should look past that to see if, in any event, there is a good story there. And if it's moving along.

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                • #9
                  Re: Lotsa talking in the middle

                  "I don't trust any Snyderish formulas, but it seems it's common"

                  "Perhaps try trusting it."

                  Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                  Or not.
                  +1

                  Formulas are good for pharmaceuticals, babies, Indy cars, and science experiments, but they are not so good for screenplays. Organic is the way to go. It's healthier!
                  Last edited by Clint Hill; 05-28-2014, 03:28 PM.
                  “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

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                  • #10
                    Re: Lotsa talking in the middle

                    Originally posted by TigerFang View Post
                    "I don't trust any Snyderish formulas, but it seems it's common"

                    "Perhaps try trusting it."

                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by JeffLowellhttp://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...s/viewpost.gif
                    Or not.
                    +1

                    Formulas are good for pharmaceuticals, babies, Indy cars, and science experiments, but they are not so good for screenplays. Organic is the way to go. It's healthier!

                    Organic may be the way to go while creating a good screenplay, but formulas are helpful when checking for missing or excessive ingredients during rewrite. No?

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                    • #11
                      Re: Lotsa talking in the middle

                      You know, the guy is struggling with his script yet he's dismissive of advice given by a professional...

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                      • #12
                        Re: Lotsa talking in the middle

                        Which professional are you talking about?

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                        • #13
                          Re: Lotsa talking in the middle

                          Well, I've turned in the script yesterday, with the section intact, just shortened a bit. We'll see what the director and execs are going to say. I made the character doing the explaining really acerbic and charismatic, and the protagonist keeps challenging him, so I hope it's an enjoyable sequence.

                          See, turning the talk into action is a bit difficult in that action takes much more time and actually can detract from the main plot, whereas talking is economical and can also be fun -- toutes proportions gardées, Inglorious Bastards.

                          What I thought was interesting was that it's the third time I run into the situation, thus my mentioning formulas. In this case the mid-point is a major reveal which throws a new light on everything that happened before.

                          I also try to cut exposition from the first act, and the middle -- when things are already in motion and the viewer's interest is conquered -- seems to be a good place for that. I was just wondering if you noticed the same thing in your scripts, if it's common, and what's your opinion on such info dumps.
                          Last edited by goldmund; 05-29-2014, 09:37 AM.

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