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Old 01-23-2008, 12:03 PM   #41
sarajb
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

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Originally Posted by WritersBlock2010 View Post
It has nothing to do with "getting it", or not. You either like your characters as more or less shallow and annoying caricatures, or you want more to them than just how many over-the-top pop-culture references they can throw out in the span of two minutes.
So, the key to Juno is if you like it, you're into shallow. If you don't like it, you're into depth. That's a very prejudiced assumption.

I didn't find the characters to be shallow or annoying caricatures. I thought they were refreshingly NOT melodramatic, which made them seem deeper to me.

I don't think the movie is perfect, in case I haven't made that clear. I thought it was well-done (which I have made clear, lol). I also don't have a preference for shallow characters, but rather you and I have a difference of opinion over what a shallow character is.
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Old 01-23-2008, 01:39 PM   #42
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

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So, the key to Juno is if you like it, you're into shallow. If you don't like it, you're into depth. That's a very prejudiced assumption.
That's not what I said.

I just felt, like Floresco, that the characters were not that developed and served more as mouth-pieces to spout pop-culture references every few lines instead of dialog that revealed (in layers) who they were/are inside.

Instead, as pointed out, we also get the cliche V.O. that basically explains everything the action and dialog should have done... Who these characters are and what makes them tick... And that more competent movies and scripts do on a regular basis.

Like I said, I have nothing against Brook, or the success of Juno itself.

But I do feel if this is the bar that has been set... It is not a very appealing one TO ME, nor is it a very high one in the sense if this is what is popular now (and maybe for some time) we are going to see a lot of clones (scripts and movies) similar to Juno, and that by definition means narrowing the supposed wide appeal movies are supposed to have. This will directly effect the aspiring screenwriters and film makers -- Non-Independent ones -- Because now a "standard" has been set and it is very limiting one at its core, IMO.

I know right now is Oscar season so there is a more varied selection of films to appeal to different age groups and sensibilities (genres)... But on an normal basis the roster of films available are mostly projects that are geared toward teens and 20somethings... And I am just chronologically older than that.

I want more "Michael Clayton" type stories -- Stories for older adults. I am also aware it is a Catch-22 because teens are the ones who go more than adults. I understand this... But that doesn't mean I have to like it. And Juno is part of this Catch-22 because this has "young moviegoer" written all over it and like I said, we're going to be inundated with Juno and Brook Cody-clones once the strike is over.

I know I have the choice to not watch (go to the movies) these films... But in my humble opinion that should not be a choice in the sense there should be something for everyone -- Like the studios claim -- When it clearly is not the case given what we've been discussing.
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Old 01-23-2008, 02:33 PM   #43
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

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Gimme a break. It's ALWAYS used when someone dislikes a movie, and then one of the fans reply back with a totally inane "you didn't get it", as if there is no way to "get it" while still disliking the movie. And if you did "get it", then you automatically like it.

That's a truly bizarre fanboy belief system, substituting "get it" for "liking it", and vice versa.

There are plenty of wafer-thin movies that a chimp could "get", but they still suck monkey balls.
Thank you for telling me what I meant. You know this always happens. I write something and I have NO IDEA what I mean by it or what I really want to say until someone steps up and shoves down my throat what they undeniably believe I said.

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Clearly, Jakkal is using the term "get it" not as a measure of intelligence or viewing comprehension, but as an indicator of aesthetic taste. Get it?
Thank you.

VMF, I have no idea what pop culture movement in the past you "didn't get" that made you horribly unpopular with your peeps and left a deep-seated trauma but, it's time to let go and heal, man.

P.S.: You did read what I said about the aftertaste, right? As in, I liked it while watching it but, after it was over, you could look back and see Diablo Cody trying really hard to be cool. I would say that's something I didn't like, even though I "got it."

Please, indulge me and reread what I wrote and tell me if a "fanboy" would say that. A real Juno fanboy would crucify me... So much for "VMF's Greater Theory of 'Getting It.'" Being wrong like that tends to happen when speaking in generalizations. Are there people such as you described? Yes. Am I one of them? BUZZZZZZZ. No, but thanks for playing.

Last edited by Jakkal : 01-23-2008 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 01-23-2008, 04:03 PM   #44
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

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That's not what I said.

I just felt, like Floresco, that the characters were not that developed and served more as mouth-pieces to spout pop-culture references every few lines instead of dialog that revealed (in layers) who they were/are inside.

Instead, as pointed out, we also get the cliche V.O. that basically explains everything the action and dialog should have done... Who these characters are and what makes them tick... And that more competent movies and scripts do on a regular basis.

Like I said, I have nothing against Brook, or the success of Juno itself.

But I do feel if this is the bar that has been set... It is not a very appealing one TO ME, nor is it a very high one in the sense if this is what is popular now (and maybe for some time) we are going to see a lot of clones (scripts and movies) similar to Juno, and that by definition means narrowing the supposed wide appeal movies are supposed to have. This will directly effect the aspiring screenwriters and film makers -- Non-Independent ones -- Because now a "standard" has been set and it is very limiting one at its core, IMO.

I know right now is Oscar season so there is a more varied selection of films to appeal to different age groups and sensibilities (genres)... But on an normal basis the roster of films available are mostly projects that are geared toward teens and 20somethings... And I am just chronologically older than that.

I want more "Michael Clayton" type stories -- Stories for older adults. I am also aware it is a Catch-22 because teens are the ones who go more than adults. I understand this... But that doesn't mean I have to like it. And Juno is part of this Catch-22 because this has "young moviegoer" written all over it and like I said, we're going to be inundated with Juno and Brook Cody-clones once the strike is over.

I know I have the choice to not watch (go to the movies) these films... But in my humble opinion that should not be a choice in the sense there should be something for everyone -- Like the studios claim -- When it clearly is not the case given what we've been discussing.
WB, Juno is ONE movie. It's not going to have anywhere near the influence I think you're attributing it. If anything, Juno was made possible by a string of quirkly character driven "indie" films dating as far back as Harold and Maude. (And before any purists and/or Ashby fans (which I am) choke on a comparison between Juno and H&M, it's not a comparison, it's an extraploation.) There's nothing so groundbreaking in Juno that it will change the landscape. It might prune some shrubs, but that's about it.
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Old 01-23-2008, 04:12 PM   #45
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

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(And before any purists and/or Ashby fans (which I am) choke on a comparison between Juno and H&M, it's not a comparison, it's an extraploation.)
Thank god for that, Goo, because there's no one around to give me the Heimlich Maneuver, and the chair in my office isn't stable enough for me to do it myself.
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Old 01-23-2008, 04:15 PM   #46
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

Also, HAROLD AND MAUDE and "prune" in the same post is funny.
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Old 01-23-2008, 04:28 PM   #47
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

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Thank god for that, Goo, because there's no one around to give me the Heimlich Maneuver, and the chair in my office isn't stable enough for me to do it myself.

And by "office" you mean in the dumpster behind the Kinkos on Sunset.
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Old 01-23-2008, 04:34 PM   #48
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

Too soon?
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Old 01-23-2008, 04:35 PM   #49
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

I made a dump in my pants.
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Old 01-23-2008, 06:02 PM   #50
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

I definitely agree with Jakkal and winter dreams and I don't take the phrase "I didn't get it" as an insult at all. I'm 25. I watched Thundercats as a kid. I probably said homeskillet ten years ago. But, I didn't get Juno at all. Maybe there really wasn't much to get and that was the point; maybe it was supposed to be a reflection of Cody's cool, hip, retro sensibilities shoved into a formula that is proven to work.

Much like WritersBlock, I didn't get Napoleon Dynamite either. That film and Juno are two completely different movies with two completely different senses of humor, but, in my opinion, they suffer from the same problem: unrealistic characters with unrealistic dialogue.

I can see why people would like Juno and Napoleon Dynamite. I really do. All of my brother's myspace-obsessed friends loved it because the whole witty retro thing is cool now. So, I can appreciate that. I, however, just can't understand for the life of me how Juno is getting so much recognition for its screenwriting. Perhaps politics and marketability are more important than substance. Then again, I'm not one to agree with the academy on many instances. I still think A Beautiful Mind is a so-so movie that was awarded way more than it deserved because of politics, but, hey, that's a different argument I guess.
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