Done with the Blacklist

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  • Done with the Blacklist

    Warning: sour grapes ahead.

    First experience- I submitted a very silly horror comedy. Admittedly, this may have not been the wisest submission choice, but I thought it might be out there enough that it might attract some attention. It received a 5. I'd have been okay with that, but I felt that the reader had clearly missed the point of the thing, citing that it was way too silly to actually scare anybody. It was clearly a comedy, and I was shocked that this reader didn't recognize that. Even supposing my attempts at humor were a grand failure, it still should have been obvious what I was going for. But I digress, it was and is a very strange script. I was taking my chances by posting it. Probably a poor decision on my part.

    Second experience- Went with a safer, more straightforward dramedy. The first reader liked it to the point of saying he'd give it a recommend, yet only gave it a 6. I thought I'd try again so I paid for another read. This reader also seemed to like it quite a bit, yet only gave it a 5! I was flummoxed. For the record, the script in question is currently a Nicholl semifinalist.

    Third experience- On the recommendation of people on this board, I got a paid read from Andrew Hilton on a family/comedy I wrote. Andrew loved it, and had very few suggestions on how it could be improved. What the hell, I thought, I'll give blacklist another shot. Once again, the reader misunderstood the script and gave it a 5.

    I just cancelled my membership.

    Now, I realize this sounds like sour grapes and perhaps the problem isn't with the readers but with the scripts themselves. Sure. That's what I would think as well. But, as mentioned above, the dramedy is a Nicholl Semifinalist. And the family comedy was loved by a professional consultant and has also been requested by two separate management companies, both of whom have requested more of my work based on their enjoyment of that particular script.

    I think that the blacklist has very good intentions and has probably been a big help to a lot of writers. My intention here is not to bash it. I'm simply talking about my own personal experience, which has been unlucky. I realize it's all subjective and the same script that received a 5 by one reader might get a 9 from another. I'm just not willing to gamble anymore. I'm three hundred plus dollars in the hole to this service with nothing to show for it but frustration.

    Sorry for the rant. I feel better now.

  • #2
    Re: Done with the blacklist

    Did Andrew give the script a recommend? A consider? A consider with reservations? Did Andrew give the author a recommend?
    If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base.
    Dave Barry

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    • #3
      Re: Done with the Blacklist

      I feel bad for the people that pumped money into this snake hole. I always thought it was just a business man who thought he could tap into a market and make some money, which, I'm sure he has. Thought it was bvllshit then, think it's bvllshit now.

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      • #4
        Re: Done with the Blacklist

        In fairness, I must chime in. I've noticed that the critiques tend to be 'development' type notes, instead of judging the story on it's own merits. There's too much of 'I'd like to see this done, or this would be a cool scene, etc.' Some of the off-handed 'creative' comments wipe out entire story lines and character arcs. Are some of these guys aspiring producers?

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        • #5
          Re: Done with the Blacklist

          No question it can be a frustrating experience.

          I have my own gripes but it's more to do with the focus of the readers than the professionalism or intent of Franklin. He's been nothing but fair and responsive.

          The chasm between the evaluation scores is what makes me palm my face. i.e. an evaluation with 7s and 8s followed up by one with 4s and 5s.

          I feel the recent influx of scripts due to the Lab, the Warners blind deal and the WGA partnership has really put a burden on the readers.

          Obviously you can also chalk it up to personal taste but I'm a writer, so there has to be something wrong with the reviewer not the script!

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          • #6
            Re: Done with the Blacklist

            Isn't that just how it goes? We've all read a Nicholl sf or finalist we thought sucked, why would these readers think otherwise? I downloaded a script that had a 9 and 10 on Blcklst 3.0, and I was like 'Huh? Really?'
            - But that's how subjectivity works, right? I actually talked to people that like Man of Steel! Wow! That says it all, in my opinion.

            So I see the Blacklist as yet another wall we hope our spaghetti sticks to.
            www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

            http://www.CreativeWritingCareer.com
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            Twitter: @JustinMSloan

            Want a free book?

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            • #7
              Re: Done with the blacklist

              Originally posted by Centurio View Post
              Did Andrew give the script a recommend? A consider? A consider with reservations? Did Andrew give the author a recommend?
              He "considered" both myself and the script.

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              • #8
                Re: Done with the Blacklist

                Originally posted by ewbet View Post
                The chasm between the evaluation scores is what makes me palm my face. i.e. an evaluation with 7s and 8s followed up by one with 4s and 5s.
                I think this is always the case. There is a huge subjective component in all reads.

                That Nicholl semifinalist script might have had multiple scores which wouldn't have seen it make the quarters - but the scores came in the right order.

                I submitted to a manager a year or so ago. About a month later I checked in with him, and he said he hadn't gotten to it yet, but that it was at the top of his pile because his assistant said it was one of the best things he'd read all year.

                But I never heard from the manager again. So assuming he was speaking the truth (which, since I know people he reps, I do) it appears that his assistant thought it was a 9 or a 10, but he thought it was no better than a 6 or a 7, if we were talking in numbers.

                (That script got a 6 on the blacklist, FWIW, and I felt the reader's comments demonstrated a total misunderstanding of the story).

                If you don't want to throw money at some avenues because of an aspect of chance, that's totally understandable - but understand that aspect of chance is there no matter what, and is unavoidable.

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                • #9
                  Re: Done with the Blacklist

                  Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post


                  (That script got a 6 on the blacklist, FWIW, and I felt the reader's comments demonstrated a total misunderstanding of the story).
                  Yes. This is my main problem. I don't expect everybody to love everything I do, but these Blacklist readers - four of them in my experience - just plain didn't get it. I felt their comments were stupid. And believe me, I've been at this long enough that I have no problem with criticism, if it's intelligent. With a couple of these readers I legitimately wondered if they'd even read past page 5.

                  Supposedly these are "professional readers." But doesn't that beg the question of why they're reading for the Blacklist and not an agency or production company?

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                  • #10
                    Re: Done with the Blacklist

                    One day, you'll go out with a script, and people will hate it. As in, they'll loathe it so much they'll go on the Internet and rage about just how horrible it is, and therefore you are as a person. They'll want to murder you and your mom for creating you so that you ended up writing such a horrible piece of garbage that they wasted their valuable time reading.

                    Others will love it so much they'll hold it close and make sweet love to it and show it to all their friends and offer you money to buy it.

                    It's the nature of the beast.
                    Chicks Who Script podcast

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                    • #11
                      Re: Done with the Blacklist

                      I can see where you're coming from. I think we all can, considering we've all been there before ("there" being thinking that our script hasn't been given a fair read).

                      But one thing we all have to remember when it comes to something like the Blacklist (or the film industry in general) is that screenwriting and filmmaking is a subjective medium.

                      There will be always be a lot of variance involved when it comes to people loving or hating your script or movie. The first 4 or 5 or 50 people in the industry to read your script may hate it (whether it's an assistant, a producer, studio exec, or rep), but you only need that 51st or 52nd person who reads your script and loves it, and champions it across town for you, for things to start happening.

                      Yes, the Blacklist is providing a paid service (as opposed to querying), and yes the readers who you pay to read your script could subjectively hate your script, but I believe they have done what they have promised so far--which is to provide screenwriters with another avenue into the industry, which did not exist before.

                      And as for the comment below--

                      Originally posted by nealm View Post
                      With a couple of these readers I legitimately wondered if they'd even read past page 5.
                      --if you legitimately believe that one of the readers didn't give your script a thorough read, then you should send an email to Blacklist support with the reasons why you believe the reader didn't give your script a fair read.

                      I sent an email about a review a couple days ago (that had a few factual inaccuracies). They looked it over, reviewed my reasons, and sent me an email back within a day saying they would wipe the review, credit me another one, and also provide my script a month of hosting.

                      If you have a legitimate case (and it's not just a subjective matter), they actually do acknowledge their mistake and remedy the situation very quickly.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Done with the Blacklist

                        I have had nothing but great experiences with the Black List from the customer service side. And I'd say, out of the 13 reviews I've gotten on my scripts, there's three that have been "overturned" due to factual inaccuracies. That's why the customer service is so good. They're willing to fix the problems.

                        As for the rest of my reviews, it's clear they read the script, but in a few cases, there is a huge disconnect from what they say and how they score.

                        I think the problem could be that old axiom, "Nobody gets fired for saying no." These readers likely come from places where if they love a script that their boss hates, they'll lose their job. It's been beaten into them so much that they'll reflexively hedge their bets. It's as if, in their comments, they're saying "I do love this script," but when they score, they're saying "but this doesn't fit into a studio business model, so I have to protect my job."

                        The thing is, these readers are anonymous, and will not lose their job if they give a script a high score. I think a way to solve this disconnect would be to get the readers to realize that their word is not going to get anyone fired, and recommending something, or "going out on a limb" for something that may not fit the "business model" should be encouraged if they really like the script. There has to be some way to have the scores reflect what they say.

                        An example would be a reader saying "this premise is rock-solid and the story is pitch perfect," but then gives the premise and the story a 5 or 6. Something "pitch perfect" does not equal a 6, in my opinion (this is a made up example, but very similar things have happened to me). If a reader writes, "this writer should be praised for (X)," they should not give (X) a 5 or 6 (this HAS happened to me). If the weaknesses mention small adjustments, the score should not be knocked down 2 or so points.

                        Obviously there are going to be low-rated scripts with huge problems, and there will be super-high rated scripts that most can agree on. But it's the scripts in the 6-8 range that get lost in the cracks. Stories that may be different, daring, or something that just resonated with the reader. But that reader knows that if they score the script an 8, it's gonna get attention, so they may reflexively pull back to make an 8 a 7 and a 7 a 6.

                        So here's hoping that the BL can adjust this so that the readers will be more comfortable knowing that their score will not come back to them if a prod. co. downloads a high-scoring script and hates it.

                        I will still use the BL, however. On the whole , it has been a great experience for me. But I wanted to throw my three cents out there, even if I'm completely off base.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Done with the Blacklist

                          Originally posted by IGetsBuckets View Post
                          I sent an email about a review a couple days ago (that had a few factual inaccuracies). They looked it over, reviewed my reasons, and sent me an email back within a day saying they would wipe the review, credit me another one, and also provide my script a month of hosting.
                          But many of the readers who do skim aren't dumb enough to write factually innacurate comments that will get them in hot water.

                          The sad truth is it's nearly impossible to know the reader actually read your script. That's why many other script services include a one or two page synopsis to prove to you they actually read your script.
                          I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Done with the Blacklist

                            Originally posted by FoxHound View Post
                            The sad truth is it's nearly impossible to know the reader actually read your script.

                            This is the excrable condition we all submit ourselves to when we put energy into a spec. I can't count the number of times I watched execs who had purportedly read a script gloss over coverage while talking to someone's agent.

                            No one has time to read. Then on top of that, they no longer have development money to pay you. The spec feature biz is dead.

                            But even without that massive problem in play nowadays, I still don't get the Blacklist.

                            It's bad enough that you get readers dismissing your work without having that reader's assessment become a publicly available record.

                            Pfeh.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Done with the Blacklist

                              Originally posted by Buzz2074 View Post
                              This is the execrable condition we all submit ourselves to when we put energy into a spec. I can't count the number of times I watched execs who had purportedly read a script gloss over coverage while talking to someone's agent.

                              No one has time to read.
                              The problem is that you are paying them to read the script. They are not execs, they are paid readers/reviewers.

                              I have no experience with the Blacklist but read some of the user comments in several threads here. I've also read a couple highly-rated scripts which didn't impress me at all. I think it's hard to measure the value of a service like the Blacklist. In the end, it's the script what will get attention or even a deal, and the BL does nothing to improve the quality of the script. So mainly what the BL offers is exposure. If it was me, I'd save the money, research a bit what companies and individuals might be interested in material similar to my script, and query them. I'm not convinced the BL model offers any advantage to this, other than being less work for the writer.

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