Backlash against the pros

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  • #91
    Re: Backlash against the pros

    Just reminding everyone to move back on topic and away from the issue of Consulting services. There are plenty of threads that debate this.

    Thanks.
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    • #92
      Re: Backlash against the pros

      Originally posted by Derek Haas View Post
      I'm repped by Jeff Gorin at WME. And Andrew Deane at Industry Entertainment.
      You brave soul

      What the heck... Ken Freimann at Circle of Confusion... err still working on the agent thing.

      Hmm, I don't feel as liberated as I thought -- probably because most people already knew that

      If I haven't welcomed you, welcome Derek. Wanted is pretty high up on my favorites list. I'm a young'n so most of my favorite movies are out of the past decade.
      Quack.

      Writer on a cable drama.

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      • #93
        Re: Backlash against the pros

        Originally posted by sc111 View Post
        I think we do. Because we control the quality of our work. Not the person who gives us feedback. We also need to develop brutal objectivity about our own skills and potential (maybe we need a thread on objectivity). This requires a level of emotional detachment yet - at the same time - a passion for pushing ourselves harder.

        With that said -- it's still entirely possible to evolve into a excellent screenwriter and never, ever break in.

        In any creative endeavor (art, music, writing), there are many different variables at play, in addition to talent, when reaching for the golden "success" ring.

        History is filled with great talents who died before their worth was recognized, and odds are many more were never recognized, at all.

        There are no guarantees, mariot.

        Trying to calculate all the variables and leverage them in your favor will drive ya' nutty. That's why I referred you to this post:
        Thanks, yes, that is a very good post.

        But we might not be able to tell the quality of our own work even if we think we can. That's what I got from the posts about how bad scripts from new writers are.

        And what I got from this thread is that I'm apparently the only one who questions the validity of the positive feedback they get on their work.

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        • #94
          Re: Backlash against the pros

          Originally posted by mariot View Post
          And what I got from this thread is that I'm apparently the only one who questions the validity of the positive feedback they get on their work.
          I think it's healthy to bear in mind that just because a contest reader or script notes service had good things to say about your script, it doesn't necessarily follow that you're ready for prime-time - bring on the agents and studios! But I don't think it's necessary to extrapolate from that to nefarious motives. If one person likes your work, and someone else doesn't, that doesn't make the first person a liar.
          Patrick Sweeney

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          • #95
            Re: Backlash against the pros

            Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
            Zing! You totally got me. If only I had some something in that thread like "I'm not saying it's exhaustive or statistically perfect, but it's a pretty good group of writers I went to."

            Oh, I did.

            So tiring.
            Oh, I know you did.

            To use numbers to suggest rigor and then lay that disclaimer is like making a statement and then sayin' "Just sayin'." An analytical cop-out so you can't be challenged for using weak data like a broadsword.

            Just sayin'.

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            • #96
              Re: Backlash against the pros

              Originally posted by Patrick Sweeney View Post
              I think it's healthy to bear in mind that just because a contest reader or script notes service had good things to say about your script, it doesn't necessarily follow that you're ready for prime-time - bring on the agents and studios! But I don't think it's necessary to extrapolate from that to nefarious motives. If one person likes your work, and someone else doesn't, that doesn't make the first person a liar.
              Just to clarify:

              I certainly wasn't calling Andrew a liar. And I wasn't saying his motives weren't pure.

              I said there was a financial benefit for him to keep his customers hopeful.

              He's running a business. If a fat woman tries on a dress and asks the saleswoman how it looks and the saleswoman says, "It's a beautiful color on you, really brings out your eyes," it doesn't mean the saleswoman is lying. She's simply accentuating the positive to make a sale. That's her job.

              The customer buys the dress and goes home happy. Later, she tries the dress on for her husband and says, "The saleswoman said this really brings out my eyes." And her husband says, "No one's looking at your eyes. They're looking at that seam that's splitting."

              It's hard to know what to believe. Andrew might feel it's kind to accentuate the positive and Derek might feel it's kind to be blunt about the negative.

              And that's the best explanation I can come up with for my 20% vs. 1% question.

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              • #97
                Re: Backlash against the pros

                Originally posted by sarajb View Post
                I'm not saying the contrarians are necessarily smart, but they do serve a purpose (UP TO A POINT).
                Geez. 50+ professional writers surveyed, Cleaner. 48 said they've never paid for notes. That's hardly weak data.
                Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams telling myself it's not as hard, hard, hard as it seems.

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                • #98
                  Re: Backlash against the pros

                  Originally posted by TheCleaner View Post
                  To use numbers to suggest rigor and then lay that disclaimer is like making a statement and then sayin' "Just sayin'." An analytical cop-out so you can't be challenged for using weak data like a broadsword.
                  I went to 53 successful working members of the WGA and asked them to share their experiences about an ongoing topic of conversation on donedeal. I'm sorry it doesn't have the statistical rigor you demand.

                  There really is no amount of effort that someone can expend that will preclude people from complaining about it, is there?

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                  • #99
                    Re: Backlash against the pros

                    Originally posted by TheCleaner View Post
                    Oh, I know you did.

                    To use numbers to suggest rigor and then lay that disclaimer is like making a statement and then sayin' "Just sayin'." An analytical cop-out so you can't be challenged for using weak data like a broadsword.

                    Just sayin'.

                    And then there are focus groups -- it's amazing what kind of data you can get with groups as small as 8 or 10.

                    But, like Sara said, 50+ professional screenwriters is quite large. I think his sampling is a very strong indicator.
                    Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                    • Re: Backlash against the pros

                      "48 said they never paid..."

                      Worthwhile polling or research gets at what they do, not what they say.

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                      • Re: Backlash against the pros

                        Originally Posted by Derek Haas I'd be happy to... let's do this! [email protected].
                        Originally posted by EvilRbt View Post
                        Cool. I'll be in touch.
                        You Hollywood guys never stray from the happy ending, do you?

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                        • Re: Backlash against the pros

                          * edited****

                          Never mind. This poll debate is getting silly now.
                          Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                          • Re: Backlash against the pros

                            Originally posted by TheCleaner View Post
                            "48 said they never paid..."

                            Worthwhile polling or research gets at what they do, not what they say.
                            Quoted because I want to make sure I can find this next time I'm tempted to do something helpful.

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                            • Re: Backlash against the pros

                              "Tap, tap, tap." Is this microphone on?
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                              • Re: Backlash against the pros

                                Originally posted by nic.h View Post
                                "Tap, tap, tap." Is this microphone on?
                                it's superbowl sunday in america, nic.

                                i'm guessing that men are sitting around drinking beers, getting all feisty as they wait for the game to begin; happens every year in dd. the flame rate has already dropped off significantly since kick-off happened.


                                (modified to clarify my post)
                                Last edited by asjah8; 02-06-2011, 08:23 PM. Reason: modified to clarify
                                life happens
                                despite a few cracked pots-
                                and random sunlight

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