"Good" antagonist

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  • #61
    Re: re

    It's not so much the terms being discussed but the dramaturlogical principles behind the function each character plays in the structure and advancement of the story.

    Knowing the difference between a load bearing wall and a facade may mean nothing to a person who likes to look at buildings but it means a heck of a lot more than mere mental masturbation to the architect trying to design a building.

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    • #62
      Re: re

      deus
      i agree in principle but threads like this become self-parodies after awhile. writing, unlike say engineering, can handle fuzziness and grey areas

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      • #63
        Re: re

        Scarlett, did you ever wonder why 98% of screenplays are crap? Do you think it might have something to do with the protag/antag relationship?

        Scarlett: I can't think about that right now. If I do, I'll go crazy. I'll think about that tomorrow.


        Sorry to cause so much pain. As long as everybody has it figured out, I'll stop now.

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        • #64
          Re: antagonist

          ...

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          • #65
            Re: antagonist

            Well, for what it's worth, I think it's a really interesting discussion and agree with Deus' building metaphor.

            There's a difference between debating things simply to define terms arbitrarily, and debating them to get a better understanding of why those terms exist and how they might apply to storytelling.

            There have been plenty of threads involving endless posturing arguments about what The Rule is or isn't. I don't think this is one of those.

            And after careful consideration, I have to agree that Gerard is not truly the antagonist. And I think we can all learn something from the cleverness with which he was disguised as one. (I also think he's an example of the "good vs. good" thing, which I for one DO find interesting to watch.)

            Cheers,

            TZ

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            • #66
              Re: antagonist

              And I think we can all learn something from the cleverness with which he (Gerard) was disguised as one.
              I especially like how clever it was to start the real story with Gerard chasing Kimble.

              Okay, give careful consideration to this:
              The story is about what is happening now, in the moment, up on the screen. Kimble wants to solve a mystery. His objective could have been anything. The objective (to discover his doctor friend killed his wife) is just the MacGuffin. This is a story about a protag trying to solve a mystery (throughout Act II) and an antagonist opposing him.

              I agree there is something to be learned here: Lose sight of what your protagonist actively wants and who is actively trying to stop him and your story is headed for the dumpster.

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              • #67
                I can't believe that...

                ... I read every post, got this far and no one mentioned...

                Roy Batty in Blade Runner

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                • #68
                  If you think this is bad . . .

                  . . . try asking a group of philosophers what the term "realism" means.

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                  • #69
                    Re: If you think this is bad . . .

                    try asking a group of philosophers what the term "realism" means.
                    That's an easy one.

                    All together now.
                    At the end of it all, "realism" is anything that has continually passed all the tests and never proved "unreal".

                    Some things that may appear to be real are just transitory (like screenwriting rules).

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