The Marvel syndrome

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  • #16
    Re: The Marvel syndrome

    I like them. Escapism. Cookie cutter and all. I'm such a fan of movies in general that you have to try really hard to disappoint me.

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    • #17
      Re: The Marvel syndrome

      I was one of the clueless masses that actually enjoyed Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman, despite the mopey Supes and the overstuffed slugfest that followed. Maybe it's my years of comic reading and thinking I can sense where this is all headed, even when the writers/directors seem to be fishing in the dark.

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      • #18
        Re: The Marvel syndrome

        Originally posted by ChadStrohl View Post
        I was one of the clueless masses that actually enjoyed Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman.
        Those two films, along with Nolan's trilogy, are pretty much the only superhero films that I have enjoyed -- and precisely because they avoid the insufferable camp of the Marvelverse (to say nothing of the execrable Green Lantern -- never was a potentially interesting superhero concept more badly botched in the telling).

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        • #19
          Re: The Marvel syndrome

          Originally posted by tuukka View Post
          Any Marvel fanboys here? Or haters? Just let it out.
          It's a lazy body of work with little or no artistry in it
          I heard the starting gun


          sigpic

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          • #20
            Re: The Marvel syndrome

            Some of us are fan grrls...

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            • #21
              Re: The Marvel syndrome

              Originally posted by tuukka View Post
              Any Marvel fanboys here? Or haters? Just let it out.
              I think that occasionally, as in the case of Iron Man 3 or Captain America: Winter Soldier, they can really raise the bar for what these kinds of films can be, and that's good for everyone.

              But it's slightly scary (and this is not so much about Marvel as it is Disney, but, same point overall) that now that Disney has become the most successful studio in history by making films for adult children (fantasy/cartoons only, no R ratings) and doing it in a way that strips writers and directors of leverage-- eg. pre-existing IP 'forever' franchises, written by committee and directed by committee, so that no one artist can claim authorship (or gross points) or be unexpendable, it's hard to imagine that the shareholders of the other major studios won't demand the same thing soon.

              And this isn't a temporary fad, like contained thrillers or 3D. It's a paradigm shift. And now that R rated comedies are seemingly dead in the water, I'm just glad I have my dvd collection to get me through the next 10 years.

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              • #22
                Re: The Marvel syndrome

                Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                And this isn't a temporary fad, like contained thrillers or 3D. It's a paradigm shift. And now that R rated comedies are seemingly dead in the water, I'm just glad I have my dvd collection to get me through the next 10 years.
                http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...iegoers-899765

                Stein's Law: If something cannot go on forever, it will stop

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                • #23
                  Re: The Marvel syndrome

                  Originally posted by JoeBanks View Post
                  http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...iegoers-899765

                  Stein's Law: If something cannot go on forever, it will stop
                  I have seen more than one article lately about 'sequel-itis', which I'll chalk up to it being a slow news month, but the fact remains that 90 of the top 100 grossing films of all time are franchise films, and that is not a trend or an anomaly- it is a business model set in stone, and will only get worse.

                  There have been a couple of crappy sequels lately (although that article you posted is really reaching by saying that Ride Along 2 'came up short' by only making $124M) but I'd bet were less than 5 years away from a Harry Potter re-boot. And it won't be just 7 movies next time, it will be 15, including spinoffs. And that's the problem.

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                  • #24
                    Re: The Marvel syndrome

                    Originally posted by JoeBanks View Post
                    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...iegoers-899765

                    Stein's Law: If something cannot go on forever, it will stop
                    The problem isn't that they're sequels, it's the lack of quality / original ideas in them. I mean, Huntsman 2 blatantly ripped off Queen Elsa for their antagonist -- Come on Mazin!

                    The current barrage of sequels are just too shi**y to pay eight bucks for.
                    I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

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                    • #25
                      Re: The Marvel syndrome

                      Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
                      I find the first Avengers rewatchable (because it was the first time all the superheroes came together, and thus novel) and Captain America 2 rewatchable (because it was an excellent 70s paranoid thriller in superhero movie clothing). But as you say, I've found everything else solid but pretty forgettable.

                      Superhero movies have essentially become widgets. You are excited about them the year they come out, while knowing that a new one will be coming out the year after that, and the year after that, and the year after that. (Remember the days when there was a gap of 2-3 years between them? Seems crazy now, right?) Studios know that people will keep coming back if they make the new ones just different enough. Thus, they're not really invested in making them markedly original.

                      In fact, Marvel is pretty adamant about this business model. That's why Ava Duvernay walked away from Black Panther and Edgar Wright walked away from Ant-Man. They wanted to bring something fresh to those movies, but the studio wanted them to adhere to a tried-and-true template. You could criticize the studio, but look at Warner Bros. -- it's struggling to create a working formula with its superhero films, trying something different with each movie. They'd love to be Marvel right now.

                      I think superhero movies are good for the industry's financial stability. They're a safe product at a time when there's never been more competition for consumers' attention. I used to crap on Hollywood for its increasing reliance on them -- but it doesn't bother me as much anymore. That's because there are indie studios popping up (A24 and STX in particular) and indie financiers like Annuapurna that are dedicated to making the mid-budget adult movies Hollywood doesn't care about anymore. They are the saving grace of the industry -- which is why we need to support their output as much as possible.
                      Great post. Never thought of it that way.

                      The economics/trends/consumer behavior in film is really following the music industry. What you see now in music is what film will look like in 5-10 years.

                      You have a very very small handful of acts that *everyone* knows - Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Kanye, etc, but the diversity of music overall has never been greater - AND, the diversity of consumer tastes have never been greater. It's become an industry of super niches to the point where you can create a playlist that lasts longer than your life without having to include any Taylor Swift or Kanye on that list.

                      And film will be that way. Each year, the number of films that *everyone* has heard of will continue to narrow, perhaps down to 5-10 per year at most or even less than that. These are the mega-films, probably all franchises with a unicorn here or there. And yet, there are likely a ton of tiny films that cater to a small audience of fans - some are tiny, others have a small but dedicated audience, but mainstream filmmaking is basically dead. And the companies like A24, Annapurna, etc are like boutique publishers that will buy films that cater to even more specific niche audiences than before.

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                      • #26
                        Re: The Marvel syndrome

                        Originally posted by redturtle View Post
                        Great post. Never thought of it that way.

                        The economics/trends/consumer behavior in film is really following the music industry. What you see now in music is what film will look like in 5-10 years.

                        You have a very very small handful of acts that *everyone* knows - Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Kanye, etc, but the diversity of music overall has never been greater - AND, the diversity of consumer tastes have never been greater. It's become an industry of super niches to the point where you can create a playlist that lasts longer than your life without having to include any Taylor Swift or Kanye on that list.

                        And film will be that way. Each year, the number of films that *everyone* has heard of will continue to narrow, perhaps down to 5-10 per year at most or even less than that. These are the mega-films, probably all franchises with a unicorn here or there. And yet, there are likely a ton of tiny films that cater to a small audience of fans - some are tiny, others have a small but dedicated audience, but mainstream filmmaking is basically dead. And the companies like A24, Annapurna, etc are like boutique publishers that will buy films that cater to even more specific niche audiences than before.
                        Interesting points. You're right, media fragmentation is occurring everywhere. I'm fine with it as long as the niche voices don't get squeezed out. I don't think they will, because as you say, there are entities with money who still care that those voices get heard.
                        "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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                        • #27
                          Re: The Marvel syndrome

                          Apparently, teenage to twenty-something men are the largest demographic of cinema goers* by far. So Marvel's repeated success should be no surprise.

                          But then, at the end of the day, [Don't you just love that phrase?] none of the Marvel movies will be a top ten favourite of anyone who is conscious of their own mortality.

                          [*With that knowledge in mind, I'm tailoring my first feature spec (action/adventure/fantasy) to suit that male youth demographic. And to that end, it'll be awfully loose around the crotch.]
                          Know this: I'm a lazy amateur, so trust not a word what I write.
                          "The ugly can be beautiful. The pretty, never." ~ Oscar Wilde

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