So here's the situation, or rather dilemma...

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  • So here's the situation, or rather dilemma...

    I've been pitching a series with a producer (one with little experience in pitching TV, but that's a whole other topic) and getting expected passes from buyers. Part of that has to do with not going out with a package -- it's just me (no-name writer), the producer (who has done a few movies), and the idea. We do have an article as IP and a couple of potential consultants, but that's neither here nor there.

    Now we're about to do our last pitch, which again will likely lead to a pass, and as far as I'm concerned, that's that. Here's where there could be an issue. Way back when, we had a general meeting after he read one of my features. I told him about this idea (in a very general sense) and that I'd been developing it as a feature, but not really getting anywhere with it. He sparks to the idea immediately and wants to talk about it more. Weeks go by, maybe even a couple of months. My manager keeps in contact and learns that he's optioned said article and wants to develop it as a pitch for a series. Great! We start meeting again, develop it over the course of a 2-3 months, and instead of packaging it up we go straight to buyers (a mistake in the eyes of my reps, of course--again, another topic).

    But now for some reason, he thinks that he's the one who came up with the idea. Maybe he's confused, maybe he's being nefarious. Who knows. Anyway, I told him the other day that, no, I pitched it in a general meeting. He got a little flustered, then hemmed and hawed a bit before moving on.

    Now, I put a ton of work into this, but I'm also aware the situation is a little tricky because we developed this together and he used company money to option IP.

    And stupidly, I don't have any kind of contract with him. My reps didn't think it was worth going through the back and forth with lawyers, given both our levels and the lack of pay. Fine, I can live with that.

    What I want to know, is this a work for hire situation because he has the IP, and therefore full control of the material, or is there a dual control thing going on here because I did the writing and brought him the idea (despite his confusion)?

    Can he still go out and pitch it without me if I'm done with the project? (And I'm definitely done with it!) Can he bring on another writer and brush me aside?

    I plan on talking this through with the reps once I'm done pitching, but wanted to get an idea of what to expect from the good folks here.

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Re: So here's the situation, or rather dilemma...

    some things to consider... i'm not a lawyer, but from what you've said...

    Originally posted by docgonzo View Post
    I've been pitching a series with a producer (one with little experience in pitching TV, but that's a whole other topic) and getting expected passes from buyers. Part of that has to do with not going out with a package -- it's just me (no-name writer), the producer (who has done a few movies), and the idea. We do have an article as IP and a couple of potential consultants, but that's neither here nor there.

    Now we're about to do our last pitch, which again will likely lead to a pass, and as far as I'm concerned, that's that. Here's where there could be an issue. Way back when, we had a general meeting after he read one of my features. I told him about this idea (in a very general sense) and that I'd been developing it as a feature, but not really getting anywhere with it. He sparks to the idea immediately and wants to talk about it more. Weeks go by, maybe even a couple of months. My manager keeps in contact and learns that he's optioned said article and wants to develop it as a pitch for a series. Great! We start meeting again, develop it over the course of a 2-3 months, and instead of packaging it up we go straight to buyers (a mistake in the eyes of my reps, of course--again, another topic).

    But now for some reason, he thinks that he's the one who came up with the idea. Maybe he's confused, maybe he's being nefarious. Who knows. Anyway, I told him the other day that, no, I pitched it in a general meeting. He got a little flustered, then hemmed and hawed a bit before moving on.
    seems to me you can pull up the emails and schedules around the meeting in question and put any discrepancy to bed. if you don't do it yet, you should consider making it a habit of just "recapping" meetings. you can say it's for your records and if the other party would like a copy, then you'd be happy to cc them on the doc.

    Now, I put a ton of work into this, but I'm also aware the situation is a little tricky because we developed this together and he used company money to option IP.
    okay, so you developed it together. let's talk about what that looks like. if he offered notes and you went back and wrote the spec he has no claim to "story by" or "written by," because you have to actually be able to prove you've done half the work in the guild's eyes. pretty sure i have that right, but you can always review the requirements for your own ease of mind.

    if he did actual writing on the document, he might have a claim.

    And stupidly, I don't have any kind of contract with him. My reps didn't think it was worth going through the back and forth with lawyers, given both our levels and the lack of pay. Fine, I can live with that.
    in the future, consider even just an email to outline the idea behind what you're going to do. it's a record of expectation and could have helped you a lot here, even if it's not a contract.

    What I want to know, is this a work for hire situation because he has the IP, and therefore full control of the material, or is there a dual control thing going on here because I did the writing and brought him the idea (despite his confusion)?
    from what you've said, it doesn't seem so. he never gave you payment for writing services, right? therefore, you are not a "write for hire." as you've stated, it was your idea, he loved it, you adapted it from your feature work on your project. did you agree to write on spec? did you agree that when he paid for the rights that part of your half of the acquisition of the IP would be paid for with your writing labor? how were you going to be compensated for writing the script? was it even discussed? it looks like you are a screenwriter selling a spec and said producer bought the IP rights to be "attached" to the project as producer. is that your understanding?

    what rights to the IP does said producer own? is it an option or an outright sale of the rights to the article? if it's an option, is it an option for TV rights or film rights as well? you might need to buy the rights, or have another producer buy the rights if you feel it's still something you want to pursue.

    Can he still go out and pitch it without me if I'm done with the project? (And I'm definitely done with it!) Can he bring on another writer and brush me aside?
    he may own the rights to the article, but unless and until he pays you for the screenplay that you've written, if you did all the writing alone, had the original idea, then no, he can't go out and pitch that version or your execution.

    so you do have an opportunity to course correct. if you're willing to let go of the spec, offer to sell it to him outright or ask him for a promissory note-- definitely get your lawyer involved. your lawyer works for you, not your managers or agent. it's in your best interests now to resolve the situation.

    I plan on talking this through with the reps once I'm done pitching, but wanted to get an idea of what to expect from the good folks here.

    Thanks.
    food for thought.
    good luck,
    FA4

    i'm sure others with more experience will be of more help soon.
    "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: So here's the situation, or rather dilemma...

      Sounds like this producer did good by you in general, no? He got the article which is cool. I get that "the confusion" is more his ego than real confusion, but let me say -- I don't think it matters in practical terms. You attempted to sell it and failed.

      Why not keep the relationship alive for next project and of course establish that if the producer is able to find someone that wants to work on the current TV project that he'll surely go back to you with good news first before he tries to get another writer involved.

      The reality is, he's going to move on too and nothing will ever come from it. But if somehow it comes up 2 years from now, you both know the other should be involved.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: So here's the situation, or rather dilemma...

        Originally posted by Bono View Post
        Sounds like this producer did good by you in general, no? He got the article which is cool. .
        I disagree here. Based on how OP worded it, it sounds like it was a pleasant surprise to learn the producer had optioned the article rights, but that was also my first warning bell. Sorta feels like he did it behind your back.

        The problem I'm seeing here is that you don't have any legal claim to this project. You keep talking about "my idea" but it's not - it's an article you found. If I go to somebody and say "I found an incredible article", that doesn't make it mine, it belong to whomever options the rights. Is it douschy of him to do it without you? Definitely. But probably legal, as long as he doesn't use any of your material.
        https://twitter.com/DavidCoggeshall
        http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1548597/

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        • #5
          Re: So here's the situation, or rather dilemma...

          Originally posted by ProfessorChomp View Post
          I disagree here. Based on how OP worded it, it sounds like it was a pleasant surprise to learn the producer had optioned the article rights, but that was also my first warning bell. Sorta feels like he did it behind your back.

          The problem I'm seeing here is that you don't have any legal claim to this project. You keep talking about "my idea" but it's not - it's an article you found. If I go to somebody and say "I found an incredible article", that doesn't make it mine, it belong to whomever options the rights. Is it douschy of him to do it without you? Definitely. But probably legal, as long as he doesn't use any of your material.
          Actually, this is wrong. And apologies if I wasn't clear.

          Here's the progression:

          I had a general meeting with the producer and mentioned the idea as one of three ideas I was working on at the time. He sparked to it and went ahead with optioning an article he found, with my knowledge (albeit secondhand through my reps). We then got together and started working on the pitch.

          So the idea does originate with me, but then he got an article to back it up. Make sense?

          I'm not sure who has control in that situation.

          I should point out that he did option the article without discussing it with me in the room or through email. So in a sense he did just go ahead without telling me.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: So here's the situation, or rather dilemma...

            My opinion:

            Learn his interest level in moving forward without you. If it's zero, the solution is easy. You, convince him to let you go out and try to team up with someone else and fold him back in later if you get traction. Hard to do. I agree. But, I've done it with someone else's work.


            Maybe others will disagree, but I don't see another course of action other than just walk away.
            Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: So here's the situation, or rather dilemma...

              Originally posted by GucciGhostXXX View Post
              My opinion:

              Learn his interest level in moving forward without you. If it's zero, the solution is easy. You, convince him to let you go out and try to team up with someone else and fold him back in later if you get traction. Hard to do. I agree. But, I've done it with someone else's work.


              Maybe others will disagree, but I don't see another course of action other than just walk away.
              This is definitely my fear, but something I likely must come to accept. Once we're done with our last pitch, I'm out.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: So here's the situation, or rather dilemma...

                Originally posted by docgonzo View Post

                I had a general meeting with the producer and mentioned the idea as one of three ideas I was working on at the time. He sparked to it and went ahead with optioning an article he found, with my knowledge (albeit secondhand through my reps). We then got together and started working on the pitch.
                That actually makes things more confusing for me.

                Story-wise, how intertwined is the script with the article?

                Is the article the basis for the story in the script (e.g., ARGO)?

                Or was the article optioned to create a sort of backdoor IP for your script and the two are only vaguely related? ("I want to do a shark-attack movie." "Sounds cool. Look, I just found and optioned an article about a shark attack!")

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: So here's the situation, or rather dilemma...

                  Originally posted by Bunker View Post
                  That actually makes things more confusing for me.

                  Story-wise, how intertwined is the script with the article?

                  Is the article the basis for the story in the script (e.g., ARGO)?

                  Or was the article optioned to create a sort of backdoor IP for your script and the two are only vaguely related? ("I want to do a shark-attack movie." "Sounds cool. Look, I just found and optioned an article about a shark attack!")
                  It's the latter. The story and characters are entirely my invention, with the article just serving as a subject matter backup.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: So here's the situation, or rather dilemma...

                    Originally posted by docgonzo View Post
                    This is definitely my fear, but something I likely must come to accept. Once we're done with our last pitch, I'm out.
                    Gotcha. These situations suck-ass. Hopefully the last pitch goes well. Sounds like this producer is already a little red-assed.

                    Sucks to walk away from so much work. I feel your frustration and pain, bro.
                    Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: So here's the situation, or rather dilemma...

                      Originally posted by docgonzo View Post
                      It's the latter. The story and characters are entirely my invention, with the article just serving as a subject matter backup.
                      I will say this: my manager (wink) per a certain IP was like "If we can't get it, whatever, we don't totally need it to move forward.- Ultimately, I was like "Hang on, I can get the IP, I'll get these guys.- I did. Ultimately didn't matter cuz it didn't sell. But, pretty sh!t of this producer to go around you to acquire the IP without your knowledge. That's the part I ain't cool with in this scenario.

                      It's YOUR idea. Personally, I'd try one last time with this producer to get him to come off the project (in the interim) if you super believe in this idea. If you're just DONE, fukk it, I'd walk, do something new.

                      Shitty... sucks. Town full of dikks!
                      Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: So here's the situation, or rather dilemma...

                        Originally posted by GucciGhostXXX View Post
                        I will say this: my manager (wink) per a certain IP was like "If we can't get it, whatever, we don't totally need it to move forward.- Ultimately, I was like "Hang on, I can get the IP, I'll get these guys.- I did. Ultimately didn't matter cuz it didn't sell. But, pretty sh!t of this producer to go around you to acquire the IP without your knowledge. That's the part I ain't cool with in this scenario.

                        It's YOUR idea. Personally, I'd try one last time with this producer to get him to come off the project (in the interim) if you super believe in this idea. If you're just DONE, fukk it, I'd walk, do something new.

                        Shitty... sucks. Town full of dikks!
                        I agree with this. But I will say in this situation I think it wasn't an act of malice, but one of ignorance. He's a super nice and exuberant guy and was gung ho on the project, and he thought, "Hey, I should get some IP to make our pitch stronger!"

                        Or maybe he's good at hiding the fact he's a douche!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: So here's the situation, or rather dilemma...

                          Originally posted by docgonzo View Post
                          I agree with this. But I will say in this situation I think it wasn't an act of malice, but one of ignorance. He's a super nice and exuberant guy and was gung ho on the project, and he thought, "Hey, I should get some IP to make our pitch stronger!"

                          Or maybe he's good at hiding the fact he's a douche!
                          Gotcha. True, does the dude have acting credits? Lol

                          In that case I would play it cool and walk him into walking away (you taking the lead) if you truly believe in it. Again, if not, I'd friggin split.

                          Just my opinion. Best of luck on a resolution!
                          Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: So here's the situation, or rather dilemma...

                            As an aside I can’t ****ing wait until we can stop backing into pretend, tangentially related IP. I’m over it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: So here's the situation, or rather dilemma...

                              Originally posted by Satriales View Post
                              As an aside I can't ****ing wait until we can stop backing into pretend, tangentially related IP. I'm over it.
                              Fukkin right!? DUMB!
                              Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

                              Comment

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