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Old 03-23-2011, 02:50 AM   #131
nojustice
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

I've got nothing to do with any of this, I've never downloaded or uploaded a script of any kind, but surely you'd need to be able to prove the educational validity of the practice.

You'd need testimony from a screenwriting lecturer or someone who is employed in a higher educational setting to confirm the value of this approach. I don't think you'd be able to get that. They only use the classics for teaching, and only a handful of them. In fact, there would be a lot of testimony from lecturers who would say there's no educational benefit to be had at all from reading or studying unproduced scripts.

Or you would have to have testimony from someone who is now a successful working writer, after having taken this educational approach. Is there one of those?

While along side that you would have to deal with hundreds of testimonies from professional writers who say that none of them learned to write by this means, and wouldn't in any way recommend it.

I don't think you have to be an IP attorney to speculate about the logistics.
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:28 AM   #132
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

Quote:
Originally Posted by nojustice View Post
I've got nothing to do with any of this, I've never downloaded or uploaded a script of any kind, but surely you'd need to be able to prove the educational validity of the practice.

You'd need testimony from a screenwriting lecturer or someone who is employed in a higher educational setting to confirm the value of this approach. I don't think you'd be able to get that. They only use the classics for teaching, and only a handful of them. In fact, there would be a lot of testimony from lecturers who would say there's no educational benefit to be had at all from reading or studying unproduced scripts.

Or you would have to have testimony from someone who is now a successful working writer, after having taken this educational approach. Is there one of those?

While along side that you would have to deal with hundreds of testimonies from professional writers who say that none of them learned to write by this means, and wouldn't in any way recommend it.

I don't think you have to be an IP attorney to speculate about the logistics.

I'd admit yeah, you're right, my argument is not the strongest, and I don't know how they'll handle that part of the proceedings. For the defense, imo, it's hammering home the all-too-human foibles, emotion, the desire of wanting to succeed. Establish the obsessions of the amateurs. And I'd say frame it in a David vs. Goliath context. Again this is all conjecture.

No offense to you, but I do think if it were an IP attorney who knew the DMCA inside out, telling me my argument was a loser argument, I'd move on in a second.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:50 AM   #133
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

It is indeed all conjecture.

I would be reluctant to bring David and Goliath into it. David saved the Israelites from Goliath who headed an army of marauding Philistines, and regardless of physiological features, a clever and articulate lawyer could very easily suggest that PJ is in fact the one heading the marauding Philistines, while Fox is making a costly stance to protect the Californian economy and the ongoing security of its population.

Is PJ Californian?
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:07 AM   #134
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

I am in New York, my lead attorney is in California. My co-counsel is in New York.
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:09 PM   #135
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

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It is indeed all conjecture.

I would be reluctant to bring David and Goliath into it. David saved the Israelites from Goliath who headed an army of marauding Philistines, and regardless of physiological features, a clever and articulate lawyer could very easily suggest that PJ is in fact the one heading the marauding Philistines, while Fox is making a costly stance to protect the Californian economy and the ongoing security of its population.

Is PJ Californian?
Point taken.

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Old 03-23-2011, 04:46 PM   #136
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

Quote:
Originally Posted by nojustice View Post
I've got nothing to do with any of this, I've never downloaded or uploaded a script of any kind, but surely you'd need to be able to prove the educational validity of the practice.

You'd need testimony from a screenwriting lecturer or someone who is employed in a higher educational setting to confirm the value of this approach. I don't think you'd be able to get that. They only use the classics for teaching, and only a handful of them. In fact, there would be a lot of testimony from lecturers who would say there's no educational benefit to be had at all from reading or studying unproduced scripts.

Or you would have to have testimony from someone who is now a successful working writer, after having taken this educational approach. Is there one of those?

While along side that you would have to deal with hundreds of testimonies from professional writers who say that none of them learned to write by this means, and wouldn't in any way recommend it.

I don't think you have to be an IP attorney to speculate about the logistics.
I don't know what film schools you've attended, but undergrad, grad and extension programs use current scripts regularly in a variety of film and television classes.

I don't think it would be difficult to find someone to testify about the use of scripts in an educational setting. It might be more difficult, though, to find someone to testify about whether placing a script on the internet is automatically educational. Connected to schools and courses seems to be considerably different from floating freely on the internet for anyone and everyone to download.
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:21 PM   #137
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

Thanks for insulting my education.


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In fact, there would be a lot of testimony from lecturers who would say there's no educational benefit to be had at all from reading or studying unproduced scripts.
I was referring to the practice of studying unproduced scripts.

I've never heard of it myself.

But you make a good point about the lack of good reason for scripts floating freely on the internet.

Last edited by nojustice : 03-23-2011 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:22 AM   #138
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

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If you're an IP attorney, SBBN, then I'd defer to you. Trying to be diplomatic, but I get the feeling I'm better off attacking foilks. You've got issues with script sharing, fine. Mine is not a loser argument. It might not be Supreme Court ready but it's a valid point. But again if you're an IP attorney, I defer.
This has nothing to do with how I feel about script sharing. I completely understand why someone would read scripts and want to trade. I don't have any problem with a person saying that he or she reads scripts to learn how to write. I'm not here to tell a person what he or she should or shouldn't do -- that's up to each person and I respect that.

But that isn't what you were talking about and that's not what I responded to -- you are arguing a legal defense that simply isn't a legal defense in the way you've presented it.

And, yeah, I actually am a practicing attorney. I didn't state that upfront because I was trying to show why your argument doesn't work from a commonsense standpoint and I didn't see a need to back it up by saying "I know what I'm talking about because..." but if that's what you need, no problem - there you go.
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:42 AM   #139
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

I'm curious as to how far all this legal stuff will go. Does Fox (in PJs case) really intend to take this to court? To what end? A token judgment of $1.00?

They have already compelled sites to take down their scripts/property. Seems like there's nothing more to gain but bad press.

Just wondering out loud...
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Old 03-24-2011, 03:33 AM   #140
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

An attorney! That's too cool!

I think the amateur obsession defense has merit though. She was encouraged by the looks of it, and no offense, but she has been given very bad advice here, and the human wanting to succeed aspect can be the frame.

Don't let it stress you though PJ. It's only money.

Last edited by nojustice : 03-24-2011 at 05:33 AM.
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