Why I Hate Script Contests And So Should You

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  • #16
    Re: Why I Hate Script Contests And So Should You

    Originally posted by UneducatedFan View Post
    Mitchell, Uneducated,

    I've tried VPF, and maybe dropped $150 for 15 pitches. I got maybe one(?) "send it" requests, and it was a manager who always says "send it." Certainly could have been a lackluster logline and/or query on my part to blame for the poor success ratio.

    I must say the ease of making queries via VPF does make it attractive. They have the names and info about the managers, agents, prodcos, etc all laid out with what they've done and what they're interested in, and you simply click on it to query them. It's easier than individually looking up managers, seeing what they've done, finding their e-mail, sending them a query, keeping track of it, etc.

    PM me if you want more info on my experience.

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    • #17
      Re: Why I Hate Script Contests And So Should You

      Not a fan of Virtual Pitch. I've done it a few times which counters the first sentence (I know), but each time you think you can crack the system. Then when you do it you remember why you didn't like it. Before I bitch I'll start off with having a solid query really helps. I mean it can't hurt. Obviously if you have a weak pitch/query you are throwing money away. They have a formula on how to write a query. It's competent yet cookie cutter...

      Whether I made the query my own wonderfully creative way or their way my success rate was usually 1 for 10. Okay, maybe the script/idea sucked. So I did two other scripts in other attempts - sometimes mixing a package of 10 with various scripts to companies I thought were begging for my stuff. I think one time I got 2 requests but they were from companies that always ask for everything. Once in a blue moon I got a nice note that seemed like the person read the query.

      Here's the problems I found. There were times I sent the query and the company was not looking for scripts at all anymore. Some sort of miscommunication with VP and the company. VP would allow a substitute pitch. That wasn't the problem. The problem was you paid with that particular company in mind. It's like you are casting a film that would be perfect for say Clooney and somebody says you can get an actor who does a bit part on a not popular CW show. I also ran into with every pitch package companies who did not respond at all to the pitch. They have 5 business days to respond. Some companies didn't respond. This nonresponse varied with each time I got a package. Again VP allowed substitution. Let me put it to you this way... When you send out your pitches, say 10, in 5 days you are to get a response. Half will respond in the first 24 hours. Usually with stock answers VP provides the industry pros. You have a script with a protagonist who is a circus clown who is also a spy and a superhero and a surgeon and the archbishop of Paris rolled into one with a diverse supporting cast of a Chinese dragon, an Irish mummy, an Australian mouse and a cartoon emu who band together to fight a Starbucks opening... You will get a lot of responses like "we have a similar project in the works." Huh? Really? Whether it's true or not I suspect the intern or assistant to the assistant reading the query even looked at more then the log line if that...

      But after the first 24 hours, the responses drop considerably to maybe 1 a day. Then toward the end of the 5 day cycle there's the rest of the stragglers. In my experience the ones who respond fast usually respond with a stock rejection. The ones who chime in after 3 days seemed to be more accepting of the script. This could just be my experience and opinion. I don't think there was a lot of rhyme and reason.

      I also found in my experience that querying agents never worked out. A manager might bite but never an agent. Again, might be just me. I got more responses (see response rate above) when I queried producers. I had this one A list agent respond to my query with a note that gave me specific suggestions on how to beef up my query so he'd read it because he thought it might be interesting. I immediately revamped the query to his suggestions. I forked over another 5 bucks to send the revamped query to the guy with a personal note thanking him for taking the time to help me. His response back - 4 days later - was "Thanks, but the query didn't grab me." I could only imagine the assistant who read the revamped query enjoying the power he had over me

      So I wouldn't do it again. I doubt you'll find a more thorough report on it. The people who did accept a script from me to read... most got back to me with a rejection within 6 weeks. Some didn't ever get back to me. That's how it is. I know had I gotten optioned or a rep or a sales I would be singing a different tune. People do I guess. I'm just telling my experiences and I had twenty minutes to waste.

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      • #18
        Re: Why I Hate Script Contests And So Should You

        By the way I kind of agree with the OP on contests. But if you don't live in or around LA one has to try something and there's a lot of stuff out there to waste your money.

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        • #19
          Re: Why I Hate Script Contests And So Should You

          In attempting to be a screenwriter you have to have this unshaken belief in yourself but also this knowledge of what you're up against...

          Here's a funny experience. Years ago, maybe around 2000 or 2001, I attended a pitch fest in LA (not to be confused with VP). This was a sit in front of a junior exec or whomever and try for 5 minutes to sell them. Now this story isn't about the legitimacy of the event. I have loads of things to say about my experiences doing that (imagine pitching to someone who is receiving a massage? I did.), but this is about something else...

          So I've never been to LA. I'm going to take a chance. I take a flight and book a room in the hotel providing the event. When at the front desk getting a room I meet another traveler also getting a room (This is not a romance by the way). We're both about the same age and we're both not from California. We're both here to conquer the Hollywood system via the pitch festival with several scripts in our luggage(no lap tops) to supply the execs who are waiting for what we have. We go get a drink. We admire the local women. Then he starts talking about his baby - his script. He's very passionate about it. While I give a guarded pitch to him ( I felt odd telling someone I just met about my horror script, but when in Rome, or in this case LA...). He really just wanted to talk about his script and who he had in mind to play the characters. He told me it was "The Crow meets something (I forgot, but I remember "The Crow"). You could tell he loved his project and he truly believed in it...

          So after listening for hours how Spielberg and Nicholas Cage (shows how long ago it was) need to do his project it's time to turn in. There's really not enough tequila to want to listen to anymore. I got it. His script is a masterpiece. If I talked 2 minutes about my script. He talked 2 hours about his. At this point he suggests we swap scripts and read each other's babies. Then at breakfast we'll discuss 'em. A few hours later the event would begin so it would be a learning experience. Soooo we swap scripts...

          I sit in my room reading his script and it's bad. The dialogue is awful and there's a lot of misspellings. Even some of the main characters names were at times misspelled. I couldn't believe this was what he went on and on about. He also did that thing I hear high paid screenwriters do - the "insert car chase here" instead of describing the car chase. I laughed and started to skim because it was garbage but I knew he'd quiz me...

          The next day we meet. There's something now off. I don't respect him, but what's worse his behavior suggests he doesn't respect me either. We each read our scripts and neither enjoyed it. We both gave polite "it's good" remarks. Of course he just wanted to hear how wonderful his script was (would have worked for me as well). It was awkward. For the next 2 days though occasionally seeing each other about we stopped speaking to one another. Only a nod for "hello." It was that experience that made me truly realize how much garbage is out there and how difficult it is to get up the mound of ****. And more importantly I better have my own act together. That moment for me was like the astronaut at the end of "2001" seeing the depth of the universe. And yet most things produced are pretty stupid so what do I know? I just know I learned never to read someone's baby again.

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          • #20
            Re: Why I Hate Script Contests And So Should You

            Thanks for the heads up on VP.
            You know Jill you remind me of my mother. She was the biggest whore in Alameda and the finest woman that ever lived. Whoever my father was, for an hour or for a month, he must have been a happy man.

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            • #21
              Re: Why I Hate Script Contests And So Should You

              Here, here Purple. That is something I realized about 7 years ago. Most amateurs could not put a story together with a road map. Not with a color by numbers story template. Yet, talk to them about their script and they'll go on about this great struggle involving the human condition and then you read their script and none of what they talked about is on the page. They are blind to their own work.

              Only, I think you should read their babies, as treacherous as it can sometimes. See, how in their pages there is no real conflict, there are no scenes that give depth to character, there is no real antagonistic force present at all.

              How many amateurs do you feel really take the time to do a rewrite from the villain's POV. How many amateurs are finding real creative answers to story problems or are they just skirting around the problem?

              If you can't see that your writing sucks (as compared to pros), then you can never get better.

              I am realizing the preparation to write takes time. I now know what kind of things to think about. Always looking to incorporate theme, symbolism, and irony wherever I can. Getting deep into a character psyche. Understanding what he/she wants and why.

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              • #22
                Re: Why I Hate Script Contests And So Should You

                So Stage 32's isn't worth the entry fee?

                I had to block e-mails from that site a few months back because they were inundating me with pitch sales slots! Writers can pay to pitch to a producer, manager or agent via Skype or e-mail, but everyone I've ever asked who just sent any of those people e-mail pitches off their own back, never got a reply, despite al the agents and managers claiming to be on the constant look-out for talent, and the producers all saying that they're looking for their next film.

                Of course, sucky queries/concepts aren't going to get replies, but I'm very sceptical. Man, maybe I should be a manager and instead of reading my e-mails to find clients, I could just charge wannabe writers to talk to me.
                Cufk, Tish, Sips.

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                • #23
                  Re: Why I Hate Script Contests And So Should You

                  Originally posted by Grandmaster View Post
                  So Stage 32's isn't worth the entry fee?

                  I had to block e-mails from that site a few months back because they were inundating me with pitch sales slots! Writers can pay to pitch to a producer, manager or agent via Skype or e-mail, but everyone I've ever asked who just sent any of those people e-mail pitches off their own back, never got a reply, despite al the agents and managers claiming to be on the constant look-out for talent, and the producers all saying that they're looking for their next film.

                  Of course, sucky queries/concepts aren't going to get replies, but I'm very sceptical. Man, maybe I should be a manager and instead of reading my e-mails to find clients, I could just charge wannabe writers to talk to me.
                  Stage 32 may be beneficial for the networking opportunities presented by its forums. But as far as its pitching opportunities, I consider it a huge rip-off. You can pitch a wider selection of pros for much cheaper (only $10 each) on Virtual Pitchfest and get a guaranteed response. I've also managed to get several reads through VPF.

                  Interesting that Stage 32 has also started several competitions. I think it started out with a good mission but has now turned into a money-grubbing operation. How could it resist the temptation?

                  Writers need to learn to do a cost-benefit analysis with any of these services, or they'll get suckered in.
                  "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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                  • #24
                    Re: Why I Hate Script Contests And So Should You

                    Originally posted by Authorized View Post
                    First of all, every little town in the USA these days either has a screenplay contest or a film festival. But, they all seem (including the BIG BOY contests) to have the same characteristics. As follows:

                    1) They all charge a placement fee - $25 to $95 (even higher with late fees)

                    2) They all take an average of 6 months to 1 year evaluation time. Guess
                    your script gets in line with 5,000 to 15,000 worldwide screenplays. Ends up looking like a subjective beauty contest to me.

                    3) All the contests claim you script will be read by industry professionals (meaning - professional, perpetually staffed college interns).

                    4) Most all the contests now offer script coverage from industry professionals at anywhere between $95 to $950 fees. Add on extra fees for a phone call with the college intern writing your coverage report. Script coverage report reads like this: "I liked this part, these other parts suck!"

                    5) After 6 months to 1 year the day arrives to hand the screenplay contest awards. IF your script is still available then, the awards read like this: 5,000 quarterfinalists; 500 semifinalist (each receives a ticket to Lego Land); 50 finalist (each receives a used copy of Final Draft) and the overall single winner (a one on one phone call with an industry professional - the receptionist at Weinstein).

                    6) Despite the promotion by pro screenwriters, script consultants, screenwriting professors for screenwriters to enter contests to get your script out there in front of industry professionals (college interns), from here on out I'm gonna say, "No thanks."

                    ~Authy
                    Who do you suppose -- as a neophyte with no track record -- should be reading your script? The president of the studio?

                    In Hollywood, scripts from unknowns start at the bottom and move up. Sometimes "the bottom" means interns read scripts first. That's not going to be different at studios or production facilities so if you are expecting to get read by the big dogs first anywhere? Including competitions? That is maybe wishful thinking.

                    There are many prominent and working screenwriters and filmmakers whose careers launched with a competition win. (Generally the big very legitimate competitions. That's what people in Hollywood pay attention to first and up front. Bottom up, remember?) Susannah Grant (28 Days, Erin Brockovich) is a Nicholl winner. Andrew W. Marlow (Air Force One, Castle) is a Nicholl winner. Quentin Tarantino (Reservoir Dogs, True Romance) is a Sundance winner.

                    BUT. If there are 7,000 entries and only 5 winners? Probably the board members don't read a script till it gets to the top of the pile. And it's quite possible an intern reads it first.

                    Don't snear so hard at interns. Today's intern is tomorrow's Paramount president.

                    You don't get to start at the top, as a baby unknown writer, you start at the bottom and get to work your way up just like everyone else.

                    Welcome to the club.

                    *Edited for typo ahhh!
                    GirlinGray

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                    • #25
                      Re: Why I Hate Script Contests And So Should You

                      Originally posted by GirlinGray View Post
                      Who do you suppose -- as a neophyte with no track record -- should be reading your script? The president of the studio? ....
                      You don't get to start at the top, as a baby unknown writer, you start at the bottom and get to work your way up just like everyone else.

                      Welcome to the club.
                      Great post.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Why I Hate Script Contests And So Should You

                        No one forces you to enter. Some of them seem mildly extortionary, but you can just skip those and enter the good ones. Quality will usually stand out in these things and if you get a little bit of heat from it, who knows where it can lead?

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                        • #27
                          Re: Why I Hate Script Contests And So Should You

                          i haven't entered my drawings, paintings, etc into contests or tried to sell my art in a long time, but i remember back when i did, there was a big difference in entering a piece into an art contest somewhere as opposed to showing up at a place that sold art and found the owner, and after a talk we walked outside to the parking lot so he or she could take a look at my stuff as i pulled it out of my truck and displayed it in the truck bed. i had better luck trying to sell my stuff than trying to get blue ribbons stuck on them on a village green. but not that much luck either way, but there was a difference.

                          may have been not many artists show up wearing dirty clothes on a tight lunch break in old pickups at galleries with the sun and sawdust and work plastered all over them from some construction job, while trying to sell seascapes painted on old barn boards. 'i'll give you wall space for six of them and we'll take it from there. how does that sound.' construction worker responds, 'good.'

                          that sort of thing is why i've said before that as far as query letters...it may help a lot if try to get more in there than the log line. get some sweat and sawdust and real effort in there, too.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Why I Hate Script Contests And So Should You

                            I just won the Screencraft Family Screenplay Contest last week. I'll let you guys know if anything positive comes from it.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Why I Hate Script Contests And So Should You

                              Originally posted by nearmint View Post
                              I just won the Screencraft Family Screenplay Contest last week. I'll let you guys know if anything positive comes from it.
                              Congratulations!!
                              "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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                              • #30
                                Re: Why I Hate Script Contests And So Should You

                                Well, that's exciting news... to say the least. And if good things come out of it, you can start a new "Why I Love Script Contests and so Should You" thread.

                                Well done... I've heard (generally) positive things about Screencraft so fingers crossed.

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