My Black List Experience

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  • My Black List Experience

    Hi everyone,

    First time poster here. After reading various forum posts about Black List experiences I'd like to let people know about mine.

    I uploaded a horror/supernatural thriller script of mine I think roughly 18 months ago onto the Black List. I got a 3 and at the time I was a bit disheartened but on reflection I don't think I was too surprised. Flash forward to now and I've worked hard at it in my spare time, uploaded it to Zoetrope twice, paid for coverage and notes and now in my opinion and others have a much superior script on my hands thanks to the twenty plus people who gave me paid and free opinions.

    So, I uploaded it to the Black List paid for two evaluations. I waited for three weeks and neither were past the reader assigned stage so true to their word they offered a months free hosting. Sweet. So anyways a few days later the first reader downloaded the script and fairly swiftly submitted their evaluation, the next day I got my email notification, I logged on and......I got a 4.

    So after a week of letting the Evaluation soak in I re-read it again and found factual inaccuracies in the weaknesses column. A pointed out that the reader stated there was a certain plot point that happened years before the current story being told which made things that were happening arbitrary. I pointed out on page XX that it's clearly stated by the main character that the plot point referred to happened only months earlier and not years. There were more points that I made but I won't bother going into it at this stage.

    So after I sent that email the second evaluation came back before I got a response. It was 3's across the board. So I took a deep breath and read it. Yet again with factual errors and something that annoyed me more, opinion.
    When I say opinion I mean someone who didn't like the content of the story, not how it was told or how it was written but the content. It read to me like it left a foul taste in their mouth and because of that my script was given poor marks.

    I received back an email in regards to the first evaluation where they offered to wipe it based on one factual error I pointed out and also give me a free month of hosting. Sweet. So I sent them another email and pointed out yet another factual error in the second evaluation, amongst other things, and long story short they offered to wipe both evaluations, replace the evaluations and give me the free month of hosting. So all up I have two evaluations I'm now waiting on and all up two months of free hosting.

    I'm not here to bash the Black List but to let you know of my experience so far. I haven't got the new evaluations yet and will have to see how they go but what did disappoint me was the readers weren't really reading the script, more glancing over it in my opinion and that showed in their evaluations. One "suggestion" the reader offered was already in the script and 3 pages long. I really hope this is a poor coincidence because I like the concept of the Black List just so far, not the execution. Time will tell.

  • #2
    Re: My Black List Experience

    Originally posted by Phoenixman78 View Post
    So after I sent that email the second evaluation came back before I got a response. It was 3's across the board. So I took a deep breath and read it. Yet again with factual errors and something that annoyed me more, opinion.
    At some point, you need to stop blaming the readers and just take responsibility.

    You know what might have kept them from skimming and not catching all the details? Writing a great script. I'm sorry, but that's just the truth. Often when I'm reading a poor script, I just start to drift off. Things become muddled. Honestly, I just stop caring. Never had that happen to me when reading something with compelling characters, a detailed world, and tight scripting.

    Seeing a 3 rating, your first instinct is going to be "what did they miss" or "what didn't they catch," but if they did miss or not catch something 90% of the time it's because it wasn't written as clearly as you thought it was.

    I'm not trying to give Blacklist (or any other) readers a blanket pass. But executives who read your script aren't going to come back and tell you what they didn't understand. They'll just say "Pass."

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: My Black List Experience

      5/10 of my evaluations had to be wiped. One of them was probably the most factually inaccurate evaluation ever on the Black List. The reader couldn't even get the stories setting correct. I should've gotten a full YEAR of hosting for how bad it was.
      I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: My Black List Experience

        Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
        At some point, you need to stop blaming the readers and just take responsibility.

        You know what might have kept them from skimming and not catching all the details? Writing a great script. I'm sorry, but that's just the truth. Often when I'm reading a poor script, I just start to drift off. Things become muddled. Honestly, I just stop caring. Never had that happen to me when reading something with compelling characters, a detailed world, and tight scripting.

        Seeing a 3 rating, your first instinct is going to be "what did they miss" or "what didn't they catch," but if they did miss or not catch something 90% of the time it's because it wasn't written as clearly as you thought it was.

        I'm not trying to give Blacklist (or any other) readers a blanket pass. But executives who read your script aren't going to come back and tell you what they didn't understand. They'll just say "Pass."
        Easy for you to say but as I said I've had a lot of people read this script from other writers to paid coverage/notes etc so this isn't my first ball game. They had factual errors plain and simple and I don't care if you're paying $50 or $500 you deserve to at least have your coverage factually correct when someones critiquing it. As I said previously a "suggestion" was made on my story by the reader which was already in it and 3 pages long. I've had people give me pretty harsh coverage before and I've gone "Yep. You're right." I can handle criticism just not when it's based on wrong information.

        I'm waiting on the other evaluations and I'll see how it goes from there.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: My Black List Experience

          Originally posted by FoxHound View Post
          5/10 of my evaluations had to be wiped. One of them was probably the most factually inaccurate evaluation ever on the Black List. The reader couldn't even get the stories setting correct. I should've gotten a full YEAR of hosting for how bad it was.
          50% of your evaluations had to be wiped?? Were they all on the same script or different ones?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: My Black List Experience

            Originally posted by Phoenixman78 View Post
            50% of your evaluations had to be wiped?? Were they all on the same script or different ones?
            4 out of 8 were on one script. 1 out of 2 on the other.
            I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: My Black List Experience

              Forest for the trees. Without reading your script, but based on my experience, I suspect you've missed the important point here. The fact that there were factual inaccuracies may be a product of the writing and not the fault of the reader.

              Take a close look at the areas that were missed. It's very possible you're responsible for the inaccuracies in a few different of ways. 1) the writing may not be clear, and 2) the writing may be difficult to absorb because of the style.

              If you can honestly rule that out then consider whether those inaccuracies had anything to do with the low score. The script and the writing might be just as problematic even if the reader"got" that part. If that's the case yank it from the Blacklist, rewrite it and make it better.

              Bottom line -- if your BL readers keep making errors it's probably traceable to your errors and studio readers will have the same issues. So correct that now.

              * For the record, I've found BL readers to be remarkably consistent. In roughly ten reviews all of my scores have been within a narrow range (7s and 8s.) I did contact them about one review because of a factual error, but the overall number was still in that range. Still, 9 out of 10 have been truly excellent reviews that have been very valuable to me.
              If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base.
              Dave Barry

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: My Black List Experience

                also, a 3 and a 4 (to me, without having seen the reviews) indicates that there are bigger problems the readers had with it than whatever "factual errors" the writer may have identified.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: My Black List Experience

                  Originally posted by Centurio View Post
                  Forest for the trees. Without reading your script, but based on my experience, I suspect you've missed the important point here. The fact that there were factual inaccuracies may be a product of the writing and not the fault of the reader.

                  Take a close look at the areas that were missed. It's very possible you're responsible for the inaccuracies in a few different of ways. 1) the writing may not be clear, and 2) the writing may be difficult to absorb because of the style.

                  If you can honestly rule that out then consider whether those inaccuracies had anything to do with the low score. The script and the writing might be just as problematic even if the reader"got" that part. If that's the case yank it from the Blacklist, rewrite it and make it better.

                  Bottom line -- if your BL readers keep making errors it's probably traceable to your errors and studio readers will have the same issues. So correct that now.

                  * For the record, I've found BL readers to be remarkably consistent. In roughly ten reviews all of my scores have been within a narrow range (7s and 8s.) I did contact them about one review because of a factual error, but the overall number was still in that range. Still, 9 out of 10 have been truly excellent reviews that have been very valuable to me.
                  I know where you're coming from but wouldn't the Black List argue with me if the writing was the problem here? Don't they check these things so they don't constantly hand out free reads to people?

                  At no point did either reader state the "writing" was an issue. I pointed out the issues, one of which as I said earlier was something that was three pages long that the reader missed. How do you miss three pages? You don't read them at all is how.

                  How do you explain FoxHound? Five out of ten of his evaluations were taken down. I have zero issues when someone tells me there's something wrong with a script I've written even when I don't agree with their view BUT when you can't even get a simple fact right that kills 80% of your criticism then I have a problem. These things weren't hidden in the subtext and I'm not writing in ancient Aramaic, last time I checked anyway.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: My Black List Experience

                    No, they don't argue. The BL is very customer-service focused. Free reads and extra months of hosting are passed out like candy on Halloween.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: My Black List Experience

                      Let us know how the next two turn out.
                      If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base.
                      Dave Barry

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: My Black List Experience

                        Originally posted by bmcthomas View Post
                        No, they don't argue. The BL is very customer-service focused. Free reads and extra months of hosting are passed out like candy on Halloween.
                        I understand the face value of what they're trying to achieve with that policy but it's not a good thing in my book.

                        I'll post up how I went when I find out Centurio.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: My Black List Experience

                          Originally posted by Phoenixman78 View Post
                          thanks to the twenty plus people who gave me paid and free opinions
                          Do you think there's ever a point where you get too much advice, or re-work a script too much?

                          Maybe it would be better for you to find 1 or 2 trusted readers (who are not personal friends or paid advisers) who you can count on for story advice. Done Deal is a place where that could happen, but you have to put some time in first.

                          Originally posted by Phoenixman78 View Post
                          found factual inaccuracies in the weaknesses column
                          Just out of curiosity, were there any inconsistencies in the 'Strengths' column?

                          Originally posted by Phoenixman78 View Post
                          I pointed out on page XX that it's clearly stated by the main character that the plot point referred to happened only months earlier and not years.
                          The fact that this is at the center of your complaint is curious (to me). I would have said the 'weakness' would be having a plot point revolve around a character reciting a line of exposition in the first place (although I will admit that reading this account out of context is pretty worthless on both sides).

                          Originally posted by Phoenixman78 View Post
                          I haven't got the new evaluations yet and will have to see how they go
                          Please let us know what the results of the new evaluations are.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: My Black List Experience

                            Originally posted by Phoenixman78 View Post
                            I know where you're coming from but wouldn't the Black List argue with me if the writing was the problem here? Don't they check these things so they don't constantly hand out free reads to people?

                            At no point did either reader state the "writing" was an issue. I pointed out the issues, one of which as I said earlier was something that was three pages long that the reader missed. How do you miss three pages? You don't read them at all is how.

                            How do you explain FoxHound? Five out of ten of his evaluations were taken down. I have zero issues when someone tells me there's something wrong with a script I've written even when I don't agree with their view BUT when you can't even get a simple fact right that kills 80% of your criticism then I have a problem. These things weren't hidden in the subtext and I'm not writing in ancient Aramaic, last time I checked anyway.
                            Phoenix, I don't think this is the script that's going to get you there. I'd hate to see you waste more money or time, 18 months is it? It's time to crack a new one. You have to keep in mind that your scripts are evaluated the same way as everybody with that service. It's impossible for readers to catch everything, and even when you say it's 3 pages, it could be 3 pages of muddy stuff, when one line of clarity would have serviced you better.

                            Look it's tough. Brutally tough. It just is, even for produced/optioned/sold writers. They have to start new stuff all the time. I wish more people knew that. Most of the time people will say no. Trust me, the pressure you have when you get a rep eclipses anything before you get one. No one knows that until they're in it. Everyone thinking "well that ain't me" - it is. When the ball drops you will have to resurrect yourself again and again. [Being Phoenixman you should be able to do it.] But navigating the professional world takes a lot of skill, compromise, resourcefulness and perspective. Navigating the Blacklist is just a peek into this.

                            Readers will miss things. This is fact. In an ideal world, they wouldn't have the volume they have but they do. The volume affects them and it always will.

                            I wish you the best but I'm of the belief that it's time to start fresh. I hope I'm wrong but if you are getting 3's and 4's on the next evals, move on. We've ALL had to do it. Even the pros. You don't hear that often but every emperor in town has been naked and running for the locker room at one time or another.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: My Black List Experience

                              Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                              Do you think there's ever a point where you get too much advice, or re-work a script too much?
                              I'm giving up on this script after this. I think unless I significantly change a story aspect and completely start from scratch, which I'm not going to do, there's really nothing more I want to do with it.

                              Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                              Maybe it would be better for you to find 1 or 2 trusted readers (who are not personal friends or paid advisers) who you can count on for story advice. Done Deal is a place where that could happen, but you have to put some time in first.
                              I don't take every piece of advice from everyone, I pick and choose of course and to be honest I'm still trying to figure out the best way to go hence the use of so many different avenues for advice. All up there was a couple of paid services, a writers group and two runs on Zoetrope.

                              Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                              Just out of curiosity, were there any inconsistencies in the 'Strengths' column?
                              The strengths both mentioned a key horror factor which was prominent throughout the script and the main characters.

                              Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                              The fact that this is at the center of your complaint is curious (to me). I would have said the 'weakness' would be having a plot point revolve around a character reciting a line of exposition in the first place (although I will admit that reading this account out of context is pretty worthless on both sides).
                              The line was simply stating the timeline of the death of somebody. It was months before the story and one of the readers stated that it was years before which he/she was basing most of the criticism on.

                              Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                              Please let us know what the results of the new evaluations are.
                              I'll let you guys know the evaluations. Trust me. I'm keen to know as well.

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