Managers and Development

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  • #31
    Re: Managers and Development

    Originally posted by iggy View Post
    Except the writer isn't out looking for a rep who really believes in them. And they might waste the heat they could get from a contest placement.

    Plus, there's the question of whether the manager would forever be attached to the specs they helped you develop but refused to take out.

    This is a bad situation for a writer whose work is really at a professional level.
    and i will be satan's lawyer for a sec and say it sounds like a really good one for a writer who isn't completely there yet. which is probably most writers. intruction, interaction, access to big guns and packaging.

    the best thing that could happen is for the practices of this place to be public knowledge. not necessarily here, but in the town. its a good LA times piece, actually.

    im of the mind here that the crime is that its not disclosed. so a potentially strong writer with other options just thinks - these guys do a lot of A list stuff and they want me. im home free.

    i dont think what theyre doing is bad necessarily. a lot of prod cos do this too. its just not management.

    i'm pretty deep in journalistic circles. anyone want to toss me the name and i'm happy to stick a reporter on them.

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    • #32
      Re: Managers and Development


      I might be the odd man out here, but I don't see this as such a horriblething.

      Managers see potential in writers, work with them to get sellable scripts.There could be a million reason why the script that got the manager's attentionin the first place isn't going out (too artsy, similar to something else inproduction, etc.). Instead the manager works with the writer to find ideas thatfit the companies where he/she has connections.

      The manager brings in a bunch of writers in case some don't work out. Why isthat so horrible? Some of those writers aren't going to pan out. Either theirfirst script is beginner's luck or they're too confrontational to workcollaboratively. He/she has to cover his/her bases. They're trying to make aliving themselves.

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      • #33
        Re: Managers and Development

        Originally posted by holly View Post
        screw a management deal, are you single?
        With qualities like that, how could I still be single?

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        • #34
          Re: Managers and Development

          Managers are supposed to work for writers.

          This situation has writers working for managers.

          Sounds a lot like "Give enough chimps a computer and one of them will type Hamlet." Except Hamlet is a period drama so they probably wouldn't even send that out.

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          • #35
            Re: Managers and Development

            Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
            I might be the odd man out here, but I don't see this as such a horriblething.

            Managers see potential in writers, work with them to get sellable scripts.There could be a million reason why the script that got the manager's attentionin the first place isn't going out (too artsy, similar to something else inproduction, etc.). Instead the manager works with the writer to find ideas thatfit the companies where he/she has connections.

            The manager brings in a bunch of writers in case some don't work out. Why isthat so horrible? Some of those writers aren't going to pan out. Either theirfirst script is beginner's luck or they're too confrontational to workcollaboratively. He/she has to cover his/her bases. They're trying to make aliving themselves.
            This is not what JL means. We know the difference. If managers want to write--hey, they can buy Final Draft just as easily as anyone else.
            http://www.pjmcilvaine.com/

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            • #36
              Re: Managers and Development

              .
              Last edited by AnyOtherName; 02-11-2013, 08:30 PM.

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              • #37
                Re: Managers and Development

                Originally posted by AnyOtherName View Post
                I'm confused.

                Every single person I know who has a manager has had the experience y'all are describing: You pitch new ideas, the manager picks a few that seem commercial, you outline them, everyone discusses them, an idea is picked, you spec it, you re-write it-- and either it turns out well (in which case they send it around) or it doesn't (in which case you move on to the next script).

                That's what managers *do*-- every manager I've ever met, at least.

                From those of you calling this a scam-- what is it you're expecting? What would a "non-scam" manager look like?

                I'm genuinely interested, since the situation described by Monsieur Lowell seems par-for-the-course.

                Oh, and my guess is Management 360.

                That's not what Jeff and Co. are saying. They're talking about a firm signing dozens of writers literally just as a "spec farm" so to speak. Of course a writer will develop material with their rep, but usually when they're signed there's at least a plan to go out with something rather than being signed to develop from scratch (maybe for some writers, but you don't usually see that for a whole corp).

                Also, I really doubt it's 360, as that doesn't seem to jive with what I know of them. Not to mention, Jeff is repped by 360, so I doubt he'd have brought it up...

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                • #38
                  Re: Managers and Development

                  The difference is that, for all intents and purposes, this company DOESN'T represent the writers. They're not scouting opportunities, trying to get your work in front of execs they know to get you generals, trying to help you HONE your craft.

                  They just want a bunch of spec factories in hopes of the big one.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Managers and Development

                    Originally posted by iggy View Post
                    Except the writer isn't out looking for a rep who really believes in them. And they might waste the heat they could get from a contest placement.

                    Plus, there's the question of whether the manager would forever be attached to the specs they helped you develop but refused to take out.

                    This is a bad situation for a writer whose work is really at a professional level.
                    I revise what I said; it may be worse depending on the situation. I wasn't intending it to mean better than nothing to be at a meat grinder management firm as Lowell described. In that case, it would not b e better than nothing.

                    Really, the case he described is like a production company giving you nothing in writing, no option money, but asking you to do re-write after re-write on your hope of "maybe."

                    An agent wants something they firmly believe will result in a real project and money for them in the near future. A writer is entitled to want the same.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Managers and Development

                      Originally posted by CthulhuRises View Post
                      That's not what Jeff and Co. are saying. They're talking about a firm signing dozens of writers literally just as a "spec farm" so to speak. Of course a writer will develop material with their rep, but usually when they're signed there's at least a plan to go out with something rather than being signed to develop from scratch (maybe for some writers, but you don't usually see that for a whole corp).

                      Also, I really doubt it's 360, as that doesn't seem to jive with what I know of them. Not to mention, Jeff is repped by 360, so I doubt he'd have brought it up...
                      I still don't know what the difference is here. Why is this a "spec farm" and not a company working with a bunch of writers trying to develope material that will appeal to the people they have connections with?

                      My writing partner and I got our manager a couple years ago after our spec got in the finals of a bunch of contests, but it was very similar to some major projects already coming out. So we pitched our ideas to her, she picked the one she though was would generate the most attention, and she gave us notes on all our drafts.

                      Now if she's doing this with a dozen other writers, that's a spec farm?

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                      • #41
                        Re: Managers and Development

                        My story: Got signed by a manager who liked my writing but wanted a more commercial script. Spent about nine months pitching new ideas for a script they could go out with.

                        Everything got rejected either at concept or outline stage, and ultimately, the management company (which, truth be told, seemed to be more interested in producing than in managing) suggested I develop an idea that they'd developed in-house. I worked on the idea, with heavy, heavy input from the management company. It went out and didn't sell.

                        Now, while it certainly wasn't what I expected when I got on board with these guys, I don't regret the experience. Why? Because I learned a LOT. Not so much on the story execution end, but on the concept end. And the guy who managed me is a nice guy. These days, I'm a million times better at generating commercial ideas than I was before working with them. And concept is king.

                        Would I knowingly enter into that sort of arrangement again? No -- of course not. But the thing I'm coming to realize is that solid writing will not be denied. When your work is ready, when you have the chops -- and, more importantly, the confidence -- you'll have your pick of great reps who will be falling all over themselves to shop your work. Until then, you just have to try and grow from the opportunities that are available to you, and see the learning experience for exactly what it is.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Managers and Development

                          Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
                          I still don't know what the difference is here. Why is this a "spec farm" and not a company working with a bunch of writers trying to develope material that will appeal to the people they have connections with?

                          My writing partner and I got our manager a couple years ago after our spec got in the finals of a bunch of contests, but it was very similar to some major projects already coming out. So we pitched our ideas to her, she picked the one she though was would generate the most attention, and she gave us notes on all our drafts.

                          Now if she's doing this with a dozen other writers, that's a spec farm?
                          See, you are talking just one person working with one person.

                          What Lowell is talking about is a firm wide policy that basically means the chances are very small for any one writer repped by the firm getting their script out.

                          If your manager told you, "Hey, we have a lot of writers here and we're going to pick out maybe the work of one writer out of twenty who comes up with the biggest, best idea," would you feel like putting time into that?

                          You're talking about something very different. Working one on one with a manager to develop a script to be taken out. Maybe having a few duds along the way but basically working solely toward taking one of YOUR scripts out.

                          Not putting you in competition with all the other writers in the firm.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Managers and Development

                            Originally posted by Deion22 View Post
                            If someone is saying it is Madhouse -- let me say i totally disagree with this assessment. But I will say, my writing partner and I aren't the typical clients, we are very strong willed -- which comes from my background.

                            My managers at Madhouse, NEVER have refused to send out a script of mine, and I'm not a sold writer. They stand behind any creative project I truly believe in. Even if we have creative differences, they will stand by my creative decisions unless they were truly horrible decisions. In my opinion they are great creative partners.

                            I'll even go a step further, I recently parted with my agent ( great guy), my managers stood by my side -- they recently sent my new spec to all the big agencies, I have interest/offers from 5 out of the 8 off my spec, and I have never sold a script.

                            I do have another script being packaged by one of the big 3's but that has nothing to do with my current script and interest from agencies. So, my opinion is what kind of client you may be, plays into the strong arming done by managers/agents.

                            I do believe Madhouse is about getting the script in the best form before sending it out -- which my managers are great at. But never have they or would they refuse to send out a script of mine once it is ready. Plus I don't go through the treatment stuff -- we just go over general ideas about what the story is or will be.
                            Affirmed re Madhouse.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Managers and Development

                              This speculation is pointless. I know who it is. And you all know who it is too.

                              Think about it.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Managers and Development

                                Originally posted by Levenger View Post
                                This speculation is pointless. I know who it is. And you all know who it is too.

                                Think about it.
                                I don't know. How do you know?

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