The Concept Seller

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  • Re: The Concept Seller

    i think a valuable point of the original post is being lost. the option to choose from, was a future as a really good writer, or a future as a really bad writer - period. it wasn't an option to choose being a bad writer who improves his/her skills later on. the question was based in the here and now with an assumption that neither choice would change; but additionally, that either choice would affect the future.

    @c. a really great thread, very thought provoking. thanks for coming back and thanks to derek for convincing you that we're not a total loss.
    life happens
    despite a few cracked pots-
    and random sunlight

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    • Re: The Concept Seller

      Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
      From the outside, this is what the situation looks like to a lot not just wannabe writers but people who go to the movies.

      But I find that pro writers on the boards hardly ever seem to agree with this. Guys?
      The great writers (I'm not one of them) who broke in with great scripts that weren't blockbusters are hired to work on all those blockbusters. You'll never see their name in the credits. They can go years without getting a credit. But they're pulling in millions of dollars a year.

      The stars who sign on to the blockbusters want those writers to come work on their parts. The directors who sign on to those blockbusters want those writers to work on the script.

      Not writer A.

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      • Re: The Concept Seller

        Originally posted by BattleDolphinZero View Post
        Kinda true but where's your proof?

        Benioff?

        Why? Cuz you say so?

        What made the script over-hyped? Because people bidded for it and drove up the price? Couldn't that be said about any million dollar spec with no attachments?

        How do you know you know what you're talking about?
        It's an opinion based upon my reading of the script and the concept and execution of it as I read it, what it sold for, and the ultimate performance of the movie that it became. I would say that it was overhyped because it commanded so much money in the marketplace and then underperformed. I would say those two factors are pretty clear.

        To answer the question "How do you know what you're talking about". Well, like I said, it's subjective, an opinion, but based on a couple of factors that seem relatively straightforward.

        Do you think I'm wrong?

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        • Re: The Concept Seller

          Say what you want about Benioff, but that guy is a low-talker.

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          • Re: The Concept Seller

            Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
            The great writers (I'm not one of them) who broke in with great scripts that weren't blockbusters are hired to work on all those blockbusters. You'll never see their name in the credits. They can go years without getting a credit. But they're pulling in millions of dollars a year.

            The stars who sign on to the blockbusters want those writers to come work on their parts. The directors who sign on to those blockbusters want those writers to work on the script.

            Not writer A.
            Interesting. So why wouldn't they just hire the good writer to write the thing in the first place? Wouldn't that be more logical? And ultimately less expensive for the studio?

            (I'm talking about a studio generated film, as opposed to a tentpole bought from Writer A and then re-written by Writer B. Maybe you were just talking about specs, in which case that would make more sense.)

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            • Re: The Concept Seller

              Originally posted by scripto80 View Post
              But they are living proof of what I said though, so whether they agree or not they are living the exact scenario I'm talking about, being guys who take the big pay days for working on creatively mediocre (many times thanks to the studio bosses -- not always the writers) big budget blockbusters so they can then sit at home and write the gritty, respect garnering stuff they really want to write.
              This is bullshit. No writer I know works on something that they hate creatively. They may work on things that you hate creatively, but with the amount of work it takes to simply get to the stage where you're pitching a take on an assignment to a buyer, you damn well better love it.

              I've pitched on material I've hated that I've turned into takes that I love. It's all about finding that thing in the material that sings to you in some way so you can do something with it that excites you. If it doesn't sing, you're going to quickly learn that chasing it makes no sense because you're going to lose to somebody it *does* sing to. Passion still goes a long way. Sure, it helps to be a David Ayer, but he's not going to spend his time chasing something he's not passionate about. There are too many other opportunities for him.

              I can honestly say that I've never pitched on or written anything that hasn't excited me artistically or creatively or whatever pretentious term you want to apply to it.
              Reaction time is a factor, so please pay attention.

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              • Re: The Concept Seller

                I'd be WRITER B.
                The key words are "Incredibly Written" and my lifelong goal is to be an Incredible Writer. More than anything else I want the technical Chops and prose skill to execute my imagination on the page.

                Hopefully, others will connect with it and pay me for it.
                He who laughs last is mentally slow

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                • Re: The Concept Seller

                  Originally posted by Derek Haas View Post
                  Say what you want about Benioff, but that guy is a low-talker.
                  Let's not try and spin this into a conclusion that I have claimed Benioff isn't talented. I think I said very clearly that everyone knew he was talented, and yet his first big whopping spec sale was, IMHO, not fantastic. It wasn't as good as 25th Hour, for example, in my most humble opinion. I'm sure some of the folks on this thread are friends with the guy, but don't take any of this as a criticism of him, it isn't.

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                  • Re: The Concept Seller

                    Originally posted by Han Shot First View Post
                    The peanut gallery here tends to focus on the schlockmasters that work on the stuff in between, but to really evaluate a screenwriter, you have to look at 10 years' worth of his career. .
                    The peanut gallery loves to focus on one-offs.

                    Great stuff Han!!!
                    The best way out is always through. - Robert Frost

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                    • Re: The Concept Seller

                      Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
                      But the guy had the chops from Day 1. And the drive and the ambition to be Great. And he stuck to it. Anyway, whose to say if given the opportunity early on he would have taken a sitcom. I highly doubt it. TV is not director-driven, it's not work that would satisfy innately brilliant directors with big plans for their life. So I think decisions you make early on can definitely shape the rest of your career. But every person's goal is different. Maybe for some film school undergrads in the director program, the dream IS to direct a sitcom. But I doubt it. Most want to be the next Tarantino or Jarmush or Nolan or whoever their idols are.
                      If you're picking a person and using them as the crux of your argument, why don't people take 30 seconds and google their name? Or, failing that, not pick someone that you don't know basic information about?

                      Spielberg worked as a tv director for years before he got his shot to do a feature.

                      He did episodes of many shows, including Marcus Welby and Columbo.

                      His first two feature length directing efforts were TV movies.

                      I mean... this info isn't hard to find. It's Steven Fucking Spielberg.

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                      • Re: The Concept Seller

                        Originally posted by SBScript View Post
                        Let's not try and spin this into a conclusion that I have claimed Benioff isn't talented. I think I said very clearly that everyone knew he was talented, and yet his first big whopping spec sale was, IMHO, not fantastic. It wasn't as good as 25th Hour, for example, in my most humble opinion. I'm sure some of the folks on this thread are friends with the guy, but don't take any of this as a criticism of him, it isn't.
                        Not doing that. But STAY was not by any means his introduction to Hollywood. He was probably the hottest new writer at the moment that script sold, and it sold while the vestiges of the 90s spec era were still alive, so it's almost an unfair example because it was a different time. Benioff was so smoldering at the time that STAY sold that his reps probably called around and said, "Benioff has a new spec, here's the pitch..." and there were offers being generated in the minds of buyers before they even read the script. This is a shooting star, planets-aligned kind of example and isn't really fair to the argument.
                        Reaction time is a factor, so please pay attention.

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                        • Re: The Concept Seller

                          Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
                          But the guy had the chops from Day 1. And the drive and the ambition to be Great. And he stuck to it. Anyway, whose to say if given the opportunity early on he would have taken a sitcom. I highly doubt it. TV is not director-driven, it's not work that would satisfy innately brilliant directors with big plans for their life. So I think decisions you make early on can definitely shape the rest of your career. But every person's goal is different. Maybe for some film school undergrads in the director program, the dream IS to direct a sitcom. But I doubt it. Most want to be the next Tarantino or Jarmush or Nolan or whoever their idols are.

                          Damnit -- just saw Lowell beat me to the punch...

                          What he said.

                          Comment


                          • Re: The Concept Seller

                            Originally posted by BattleDolphinZero View Post
                            There are so many people who work on big blockbusters are people who didn't break in writing them.

                            Look at Benioff.
                            Sure. But I'm talking in general terms of success, not just "how to break in". If we're solely talking about the spark that lights the fire of a career, of course that's true in many cases. I was speaking more in terms of overall success and longevity in today's industry (which is far different from what it used to be and what they use to value).

                            Anyway Han Shot First, I totally agree that combining both is the way to stick around too. I love (and try to write) well-written big budget films. It seems like "commercial" films get a bad rep as though they're all creatively bankrupt despite being big money makers. But obviously there are many great projects out there that are well written AND make a lot of money and those are usually the films are the most memorable for years to come and those are the writers whom aspiring writers should look to for examples.

                            Right Jeff, but Writer A is still making lots of money and has their name listed first in the credits and gets all the attention.

                            So I guess when all is said and done, either writer can see great, long-term success, or failure. I think that's the funny thing about this thread after reading through it....it seems either Option can and has lead to long terms success, just depends on their individual scenarios and what they choose to do after that first taste of success, at whatever level it may be. There is no one single right answer and those who want to laugh at the other for choosing one or the other are both arrogant and incorrect. So I'd like to change my answer to EITHER. Either will see success, or failure, it just depends on the scenario, but strong arguments can be made for both.

                            Cheers.

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                            • Re: The Concept Seller

                              A sounds good and it always will. I almost lost my job last week and if that happened? I would out of my home and my car within a month. I have 2 kids and one on the way (YES, I defeated the Birth Control Pill mua ha hah hahah)
                              I am awake nineteen hours a day between the kids and the job and my retirement is ****.....

                              I'd still take B. Long before the wife and the Kids came along, I wanted to be a writer. It's MY DREAM. So I bundle up all my little scraps if time and write. Writing is a good way to submerge myself into what is left of my life after everyone else is taken care of....

                              As B? Someday I'd be able to walk in a room and not only excite people with ideas, I'd be able to Deliver the goods if I was truly that incredible.
                              I'd be happier just writing all the time.
                              Fzck the Mil owed... everyone here will more than likely spend their lives in debt.
                              He who laughs last is mentally slow

                              Comment


                              • Re: The Concept Seller

                                Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                                If you're picking a person and using them as the crux of your argument, why don't people take 30 seconds and google their name? Or, failing that, not pick someone that you don't know basic information about?

                                Spielberg worked as a tv director for years before he got his shot to do a feature.

                                He did episodes of many shows, including Marcus Welby and Columbo.

                                His first two feature length directing efforts were TV movies.

                                I mean... this info isn't hard to find. It's Steven Fucking Spielberg.
                                You know, as soon as I posted that, I started thinking, damn, I bet the guy worked in TV and I didn't know about it. So yeah, busted.

                                Anyway, Spielberg was just an example, my point had more to do with getting stuck in an artistic path that wasn't the one you had hoped for originally, and that just because someone is working in their field professionally doesn't mean they're not frustrated and wondering if they made the wrong choices. Before you know it, the years have gone by and you're still in that part of the industry that you thought would be a threshold to bigger things.

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