The Concept Seller

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  • Re: The Concept Seller

    Originally posted by Dick Swings View Post
    Am I the only one who got that Writer A is not capable of becoming a better writer?
    Yes (well, I can't really speak for everyone else).

    I do not believe there is anyone who can not improve. I do believe there are people who refuse to improve or who believe they are geniuses and don't need to improve.

    I also do not believe someone with a great idea with zero writing talent can get anywhere near making a $2m deal. Ain't gonna happpen. They may be "pedestrian" writers, but not terminally bad, or their script would make no sense at all.

    If you have ever read for a contest, you know there are people who seem to have written 120 pages of gibberish and there may be a great idea in there somewhere but no one who is sane will ever find it.

    The other element is that great idea - if you've ever been on a pitch panel and listened to 100 pitches, you know that none of them are great ideas. It takes *creativity* to come up with a great idea... and those people don't have that. Guess what? Also takes creativity to write great characters and great dialogue and great actions and great situations, etc.

    So, chances are pretty good the person with the great idea can at least write their way out of a paperbag. Maybe a wet one, but they have some raw materials that can be worked with. So in the real world, Writer A has some chance of continued employment... and even if they are just that mythical "idea man", they have a chance of settiing up some other ideas that David Benioff can take to script.

    Had the situation Craig set up been only "Quick big bucks then nothing or a career?" I don't think anyone would pick A... okay, some people might. But I think most people here just want to work and keep working.

    In real life, I chose some odd form of B and after a 20 year career have my 20th film shooting later this year. And yes - all of those films suck. But I've managed to continue having a writing career in this town despite a bunch of films you wouldn't want to have your name on. Trust me, no one says: "Get me the writer of NINJA BUSTERS!" The writing has to open the doors and be strong enough to counteract my credits.

    - Bill
    Free Script Tips:
    http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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    • Re: The Concept Seller

      Okay, don't read two thousand scripts. Don't do anything. I honestly don't give a shit, Kermet. Do whatever makes you happy.

      I actually thought Stay was a pretty damned strong spec, despite its similarities to An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge, Jacob's Ladder, Carnival of Souls, A Pure Formality, etc.

      Benioff is a friggin' madman.

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      • Re: The Concept Seller

        Originally posted by Jiminho View Post
        Old, fat, toothless female litt agents.
        Coffee has spurted out of my nose in Starbucks... and the cute barista was watching. Damn you!

        - Bill
        Free Script Tips:
        http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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        • Re: The Concept Seller

          Originally posted by Dick Swings View Post
          Okay, don't read two thousand scripts. Don't do anything. I honestly don't give a shit, Kermet. Do whatever makes you happy.
          In the time that I've been writing screenplays - 4 years - I've read just over 100 screenplays. With that said, I don't think reading 2,000 screenplays would help YOU because you were incapable of understanding the few sentences I strung together. If you cannot define the criteria that determines what is good writing that's not my fault. If you're too lazy, that is also not my fault.


          Now, post several retorts and make sure to explain how you're too lazy to discuss them.
          "All of us trying to be the camera behind the camera behind the camera. The last story in line. The Truth" Chuck Palahniuk - Haunted

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          • Re: The Concept Seller

            After reading the last 4 pages of posts, I believe I hear the sound of one hand clapping.

            Some of the topic hairsplitting is really funny.
            Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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            • Re: The Concept Seller

              In your corners, guys. The edge has crept in and the personal has slipped its cowardly way to the fore.

              In other words - on topic, please. Without personal attacks or insults.

              Thank you.
              Nic
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              • Re: The Concept Seller

                Originally posted by nic.h View Post
                In your corners, guys. The edge has crept in and the personal has slipped its cowardly way to the fore.

                In other words - on topic, please. Without personal attacks or insults.

                Thank you.
                Nic

                No, I suck, Nic. I fully admit that.

                I wish more people would.

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                • Re: The Concept Seller

                  Originally posted by Patrick Sweeney View Post
                  Perhaps the mods could create a new forum titled "You're Wrong, You're Stupid, and You'll Never Make It" for these threads, since, whatever the question or topic, that always seems to be the message in the end. Why are other newer writers wasting your time? Write scripts. Read screenplays. Hone your craft. Learn whatever you can from whoever has something to teach you - including but not exclusively the established pros. Break in whatever way ends up working for you. But no trick question in the world's going to tell you whether or not you can be a screenwriter - and arguing about trick questions even less so.
                  That's pretty accurate, although I wouldn't have said "stupid."

                  But sure. Of course most of you are wrong and won't ever make it.

                  What IS of value is knowing the nature of the business into which you are trying to break.

                  Some of you THINK you know it, but very few of you really do understand how this business functions, how decisions are made in terms of who is hired to write what, and how careers actually begin and flourish.

                  Instead, what you know is the ILLUSION that has been presented to you by a cottage industry designed to encourage everyone.

                  C.

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                  • Re: The Concept Seller

                    Thanks to Will, the pros, and my fellow donedealers. This is an awesome thread, and I haven't even read a quarter of it.

                    I love the shoptalk, the wisdom, the philosophical debates, and above all the pros volunteering to have random strangers take pot shots at them for free.

                    Yay, internet!
                    If you really like it you can have the rights
                    It could make a million for you overnight

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                    • Re: The Concept Seller

                      To pay (some of) my many bills, I do freelance reading for one of the mini-majors-cum-majors, and I can say without hesitation that the level of writing required to get me to even consider giving a script (and/or the writer/s) a consider is strong.

                      Wake up, Done Deal.

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                      • Re: The Concept Seller

                        Originally posted by Dick Swings View Post
                        To pay (some of) my many bills, I do freelance reading for one of the mini-majors-cum-majors, and I can say without hesitation that the level of writing required to get me to even consider giving a script (and/or the writer/s) a consider is strong.

                        Wake up, Done Deal.

                        But hasn't this argument been a DD classic for quite some time?

                        Remember BWE's "masterpiece" verses CE's "commercial concept, adequate execution" debates?

                        (I still don't know what constitutes "adequate" execution.)

                        Nothing new under the sun.
                        Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                        • Re: The Concept Seller

                          Mazin's question is a parlor game... and I'm surprised people are still playing.

                          The problem with these artificially limiting hypotheticals is that they don't reflect the real world.

                          In the real world you don't have to choose. It's not an either/or thing.

                          You can sell a script for big bucks (if you get lucky) AND be a good writer as well.

                          And if you do get lucky & break in with a big sale-- and have limited ability-- you can play that opportunity into a career.

                          One more thing...

                          Obviously- I think we can all agree--IF you have the ability to execute a great script, you should do it. That can only benefit you in both the short run & the long run.

                          "Trust your stuff." -- Dave Righetti, Pitching Coach

                          ( Formerly "stvnlra" )

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                          • Re: The Concept Seller

                            Originally posted by Dick Swings View Post
                            To pay (some of) my many bills, I do freelance reading for one of the mini-majors-cum-majors, and I can say without hesitation that the level of writing required to get me to even consider giving a script (and/or the writer/s) a consider is strong.

                            Wake up, Done Deal.
                            "Done Deal" is not, as a group, arguing for mediocre or average writing. Apart from the absurdity of suggesting that an online forum can act as a unified collective, that's not what the majority of posters have said. At all.

                            Here's the thing - what Craig et al advocate is exactly what I want to believe is the process. That it's not all about loglines and concepts, ideas and mediocrity. Cream rises to the top and all that.

                            But, as someone who is frequently recognised for her writing, but not her ideas - indeed, can't seem to get a read beyond my logline and genre (that poor little orphan, drama) - it's damned hard to believe.

                            I want you to be right. I want this to be how Hollywood operates. (Today - not back when you guys broke in, but today.) Problem is, all evidence to the contrary.
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                            • Re: The Concept Seller

                              Originally posted by Brian Koppelman View Post
                              Can't let this stand. Benioff is much more than a talented guy. He is a great writer. City Of Thieves is an all time classic. Will be read by our kids' kids.
                              Okay, he is a brilliant writer.

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                              • Re: The Concept Seller

                                Originally posted by Dick Swings View Post
                                I can say without hesitation that the level of writing required to get me to even consider giving a script (and/or the writer/s) a consider is strong.
                                That's my point about A - even with a great idea, it has to get past someone like you before anything can happen... let alone end up a $2m sale.

                                Most people here know that, because that is the step that comes after "get someone to read my script". It's not just the great story, it must be well told, too. Both - which doesn't exist in this scenario. You need that great story idea so that someone asks to read your script off the e-query, and then the script has to knock their socks off when they read it.

                                And that's why this thread is nine zillion pages long. Because the situation is silly. And Guido is going to break my fingers.

                                - Bill
                                Free Script Tips:
                                http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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