Do I owe my former manager?

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  • #16
    Re: Do I owe my former manager?

    Yeah, what SBS said. I was leaning towards tossing them a bone just to be nice, but no notes, no nothing, let them suck pickles!
    http://www.pjmcilvaine.com/

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    • #17
      Re: Do I owe my former manager?

      You might find this interesting.

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      • #18
        Re: Do I owe my former manager?

        Yeah, I forgot about that. When my manager sold my script, I was told that legally, I didn't have to pay her a dime since she wasn't licensed.
        http://www.pjmcilvaine.com/

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        • #19
          Re: Do I owe my former manager?

          Thanks for everyone's comments. And a special thanks to Shari Hari for the link.

          After consulting with several people, it's very clear my ex-management company doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. Manager's are not licensed like agents and therefore cannot legally solicit work for clients. They do anyway, and receive commissions, but in disputes like this, the law is clear.

          Also, when I left them I sent a Letter of Termination of Managerial Services that clearly spelled out I would give them a 7 1/2 percent commission on anything they were involved in if it sold within six months -- and that was 3 1/2 years ago. They did not dispute the terms, so it's crass them hitting me up now.

          That said, I'm going to offer them a "gift" roughly equalling 2 1/2 percent of the sale for the work they did for me the two years I was with them. They did move my career down the field a few yards and got me some meetings (but they also fumbled the ball -- big time -- doing some things that actually hurt my career.)

          Nevertheless, I feel people should be compensated for their time and efforts. I've drafted an email to them with the offer that I'll send out later today.

          Most people in Hollywood are happy to help you out and do you favors, because they know what goes around comes around, the person they help today could be an important contact tomorrow. But every now and then you'll come across people that think you "owe" them and try to cash in on your success. I've had this happen before. You have to be careful who you associate with. I always research everyone I have dealings with. Most people who do that already have a bad reputation. (This forum is great for that kind of reaserch.)

          This is the first time this has come up for me that there was some actual "ethical" merit, which is why I'm making them the offer of the gift. But I'm going to have them sign a letter first in which they acknowledge this is a gift for past services rendered and not a commission, and that they have no further commission claims on any of my other work. The letter really isn't necessary, but it will be the final nail in coffin concerning the issue.

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          • #20
            Re: Do I owe my former manager?

            Oz, I read and skimmed through all the responses.

            I doubt you owe them anything. But my most sincere advice is that you consult an attorney if you can afford to. First and foremost, you want everyone to feel that your actions are completely legal and appropriate. You don't need some people bad-mouthing you all over town. You never know who knows whom. I never cease to be amazed by the "six degrees of separation" phenomenon.

            "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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            • #21
              Re: Do I owe my former manager?

              Along these lines, what's the standardish development fee for a manager you've left, but who had a considerable hand in the development of a spec that sells when you're with a different manager?

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              • #22
                Re: Do I owe my former manager?

                I'm on the outside looking in but I just don't get it. If I read your post right then a couple of years ago your "then" manager hooked you up with someone who eventually bought your project?

                I think there is just plain ole every day right and wrong. Pay the guy man....just pay the guy.

                If you were a manager and you had hooked a guy up with Dreamworks and two years later (because of your work) they bought the very project you had introduced them too.....don't you think you should be paid?

                How many times do us writers screem and yell about producers/directors or anyone for that matter making us work for free? I've heard it a thousand times on this very board..."writers have a right to be paid for their work!"

                Where I'm from you just pay the guy....it's the right thing to do.

                Sparks

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                • #23
                  Re: Do I owe my former manager?

                  Sparks, that is why I suggested getting a lawyer.

                  The role of a lawyer is not just to advise about the legal requirements but to offer advice about the best course to take.

                  "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Do I owe my former manager?

                    Originally posted by Scripted77 View Post
                    what's the standardish development fee for a manager you've left
                    That's the problem. There is no "standardish fee." Many people might help you develop a project over time from a manager to an agent to several creative executives. Many others might open a door for you, introduce you to someone, submit something for you...

                    I also totally understand Sparksdale's response. People deserve to be paid for their work. The question is: how much? If they had connected me with Dreamworks, there would be plenty to go around. But you're talking a union scale job last year and now suddenly they're trying to tap a well that's pretty much run dry... So my current financial situation is something else I have to consider.

                    And I'm the one that kept this project alive at Hallmark all these years by emailing them every four months or so reminding them of it.

                    Legally there's no question -- I owe them nothing.

                    My current manager says I owe them nothing.

                    It's just not black-and-white...

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                    • #25
                      Re: Do I owe my former manager?

                      If your manager acted as an agent and negotiated the deal, then they broke the law. The law is very clear. Talent agents have to be licensed by the state and are the ONLY ones (besides lawyers) who can negotiate a contract. That being said, if the manager is the person who SOLD your project than its a personal decision on wether or not you want to pay them a commission. The law is very clear, but I for one feel that if someone did ALL of the legwork getting your script sold, then they DO deserve a commission for their hard work. We writers complain all the time about doing work for free (be is re-writes, treatments, ect.).

                      I think your offer of 2.5% is a nice offer to them. You struck a deal with them several years ago that they could get 7% (or something like that) and I think its weird that they have waited SO LONG to try to get this commission. Whatever you decide to do, I'm sure everyone on this board will support you.

                      Your in a tough position. Is this management company a big one? Is it someone who burning a bridge with could HARM your career? If not, then you really have nothing to loose by not paying them a dime.

                      Take my advice for what its worth and please keep us all posted on what happens.

                      Good Luck!
                      "PC lobe letter? What the f*%k does that mean?"

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                      • #26
                        Re: Do I owe my former manager?

                        Okay...okay...further thought and a new decision...

                        Damn you, Sparksdale! How dare you be my conscience! You just cost me $4,000!

                        I'm going to email the manager and say, fine, I don't legally owe you anything, but you'll get your 10%, because you deserve some compensation. But there's a catch -- I'm financially unable to give it to you now (which is true). You'll have to wait for my next sale.

                        Since they waited this long, I'm sure that will satisfy them.

                        As for them bad-mouthing me, I was never worried about that. And no, they're not a big company. In fact, my current manager, who knows everybody in town, has never even heard of them.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Do I owe my former manager?

                          I think you are being overly generous now. Those bozos probably are just kicking the tires to see how much they can get, if anything. If you tell them without trying to negot that they are getting 10%, they would probably fall out of their chairs from surprise. You go into a car dealership, don't you try to haggle and not pay sticker price?
                          http://www.pjmcilvaine.com/

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                          • #28
                            Re: Do I owe my former manager?

                            Originally posted by boski
                            Great, I hope you didn't send that email yet. Just hear me out...

                            After reading through the thread, and seeing that managers have no legal leg to stand on, I wouldn't offer them anything.

                            Not to be a bastard, but just because that's the way the law and the biz seems to work.

                            And here's another biggie IMO informing that choice: I'm almost certain that WGA sig agents can't collect any comission on a union scale deal. Because that would knock the deal below guild mins.

                            So if a licensed signatory agent can't charge commission on a MBA minimum deal, I'm damn sure not paying a manager three years down the line...

                            If I'm wrong about the WGA prohibiting agents from commisisoning guild minimum deals, please clairfy. But I'm sure I read that in the WGA contract somewhere...
                            I think the point some others are making is that this isn't just a legal question. It's an ethical question too. Not to mention a reputation question. It's not as simple as them not having a leg to stand on. I mean, I see your point, but other factors are at play as well.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Do I owe my former manager?

                              Originally posted by boski
                              And here's another biggie IMO informing that choice: I'm almost certain that WGA sig agents can't collect any comission on a union scale deal. Because that would knock the deal below guild mins.

                              So if a licensed signatory agent can't charge commission on a MBA minimum deal, I'm damn sure not paying a manager three years down the line...

                              If I'm wrong about the WGA prohibiting agents from commisisoning guild minimum deals, please clairfy. But I'm sure I read that in the WGA contract somewhere...
                              Just to clarify this, most union scale deals are scale plus 10.
                              https://twitter.com/#!/moviewriterJeff

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                              • #30
                                Re: Do I owe my former manager?

                                [QUOTE=boski;447634]Union scale is union scale.

                                What you mean is: most deals with WGA sigs are negotiated for 10% over the minimum./QUOTE]

                                That's pretty much what I said.
                                https://twitter.com/#!/moviewriterJeff

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