Jstar (Joe) and Fountain for screenplays

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  • Jstar (Joe) and Fountain for screenplays

    For those who still like the WordStar keystrokes (all three of us!) I've just discovered a feature in JOE (Joe's Own Editor - https://sourceforge.net/projects/joe-editor/files/ -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe's_Own_Editor ) that allows me to use Jstar (the WordStar emulating flavor of Joe) for writing in the Fountain Markup language. The issue had been that every line ended with a carriage return -- so the text didn't flow into word processors properly. Cleaning up the text was more work than it was worth.

    But in jstarrc (Jstar's configuration file) I found a setting called "flowed" that inserted a space/carriage return combo at the end of word wrapped lines. So this allows me to write in Jstar (with word wrap enabled) and then, by replacing " \n" with a single space, the text flows as if it had never been "wrapped." This is necessary for the Fountain format. (If you use Windows, you'll probably have to download the full version of JOE instead of one of the stand-alone versions -- otherwise you won't have an "rc" configuration file to modify.)

    Once in Fountain format, I can use several websites (or applications) to convert Fountain into PDF or Final Draft .fdx files. Screenplain (http://www.screenplain.com/) is one of the online sites that will convert Fountain formatted text files into HTML (for previewing or ...) or into Final Draft .fdx format. www.afterwriting.com can be used to convert from Fountain to PDF format and downloaded. afterwriting also has an online editor and will allow you to save in Fountain format to your computer, DropBox or Google Drive. You can also load Fountain formatted scripts into WriterDuet (www.writerduet.com) where they can be edited and exported in several formats -- or www.youmescript.com -- where they can be edited and downloaded in PDF, .fdx, Formatted Text, or back to Fountain.

    Applications that handle Fountain formatted text are (among others) Trelby (free www.trelby.org) , Fade In ($50 http://www.fadeinpro.com/) and Scrivener (about $40 for Windows, $45 for OSX and a free beta for Linux -- https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.php. (All three applications available for Linux.)

    At any rate, for what it's worth -- not being able to afford or find screenplay writing software is no longer an issue. More information on the Fountain markup language is available at http://fountain.io -- for me this is the best method for inputting text. You'll need some kind of "partner" program for formatting, even if it's one of the free websites.
    Last edited by Centos; 01-27-2017, 06:41 PM.
    STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

  • #2
    Re: Jstar (Joe) and Fountain for screenplays

    As an FYI ...

    Fade In can import your Fountain file even if each line has a hard return at the end.
    1. Write your text file in the usual Fountain format.
    2. But save the file with a text (.txt) file extension, not with a Fountain (.fountain) extension.
    3. In Fade In: Use File > Import > Formatted text.
    4. Select your file and import it.
    This really works. I do it all the time when I have had to convert a PDF screenplay to text with a utility that I have. Those conversions always leave hard returns at the end of every line.

    Another FYI ...

    (By the way, whenever you import formatted text or Fountain text into Fade In, put a === on the first line of the document, followed by a blank line. Then start your document. If you do not do this, your first paragraph may get omitted. It is some kind of glitch.)

    By the way, Centos, since you are a Linux user ... Have you actually downloaded the Linux version of Fade In? I think that you have to compile your own binary, but I would have to check. I would like for someone to tell me how well the Linux version works. You can download the demo for free. And, specifically, I would like to know whether the demo version lets you do the imports and exports, like the one that I just talked about.
    Last edited by ComicBent; 01-28-2017, 02:09 AM.

    "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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    • #3
      Re: Jstar (Joe) and Fountain for screenplays

      Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
      As an FYI ...

      Fade In can import your Fountain file even if each line has a hard return at the end.
      1. Write your text file in the usual Fountain format.
      2. But save the file with a text (.txt) file extension, not with a Fountain (.fountain) extension.
      3. In Fade In: Use File > Import > Formatted text.
      4. Select your file and import it.
      This really works. I do it all the time when I have had to convert a PDF screenplay to text with a utility that I have. Those conversions always leave hard returns at the end of every line.
      Good to know. Thanks. One advantage of reading into Fade In: using .fountain format (that I've seen with a little testing) is that lower case sluglines are automatically recognized and capitalized, whereas the formatted text import sees them as action lines. I'm guessing that, if you're converting PDF screenplays, they're already in proper format. But this is useful for my own stuff, I don't have to capitalize sluglines as I type.

      Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
      Another FYI ...

      (By the way, whenever you import formatted text or Fountain text into Fade In, put a === on the first line of the document, followed by a blank line. Then start your document. If you do not do this, your first paragraph may get omitted. It is some kind of glitch.)
      Also good to know. I didn't even know Fade In had this issue, but I was able to test and confirm. If I remember right, the three equal signs is Fountain's way of forcing a new page. afterwriting didn't seem to mind the addition -- just loaded normally.

      Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
      By the way, Centos, since you are a Linux user ... Have you actually downloaded the Linux version of Fade In? I think that you have to compile your own binary, but I would have to check. I would like for someone to tell me how well the Linux version works. You can download the demo for free. And, specifically, I would like to know whether the demo version lets you do the imports and exports, like the one that I just talked about.
      I've already downloaded and installed it. Since I'm using a Ubuntu-based distribution, Linux Mint, I can use the Fade In: .deb package. It's as easy to install as Windows (if not easier). (Just to test Manjaro Linux on a thumb drive (temporary) "installation," I also installed Fade In: there. You have to compile it, but (even there) it's all basically automated by downloading a "git" file, opening it with tar (like unzip) and running one command.)

      Fade In: works in Linux as you say. If text files have hard carriage returns you import using "formatted text." If you import as "Fountain" or "Unformatted text, the carriage returns break the lines. Import as formatted text and it works (with the exception of converting lower-case sluglines, which is just my laziness).

      For my purposes, when writing my own stuff, removing the "soft" carriage returns and saving in Fountain format makes more sense. Not only does it let me be lazy about sluglines, it makes the file more portable. I can use it with Trelby, or afterwriting, or WriterDuet, or Screenplain or a slew of others.

      As for Fade In:, if I was actually writing anything instead of just experimenting with screenplay format, I would buy it. It's probably the best screenplay writing software out there now.
      STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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      • #4
        Re: Jstar (Joe) and Fountain for screenplays

        I'm guessing that, if you're converting PDF screenplays, they're already in proper format.
        To convert from .txt to .fadein, proper format in the source file is necessary only in regard to capitalization and blank lines. The left margin does not matter. All the paragraphs can be flush against the left margin. Or they can have leading spaces. But you are right that the Scene Headings have to be in full caps. Also, a simple Character name like MCCABE has to be in full caps. If you use McCABE, it is seen as Action.

        (To reiterate for others who are reading this: The full caps in Scene Headings are necessary when going from .txt to .fadein; but full caps are not necessary when going from .fountain to .fadein.)

        If I remember right, the three equal signs is Fountain's way of forcing a new page.
        You are correct, sir.

        A year or two ago I figured out that === was the best way to circumvent what I will call the «first-paragraph bug» in converting from .fountain to .fadein. I brought all of this to the attention of the Fade In developer, Kent Tessman. He said that it had something to do with the Fountain code for the title page. I guess the Fountain title-page code somehow affects the beginning of the script, even if you have no title page. I have not tried using Fountain for a title page in a couple of years, because I did not find it to be helpful, and who really needs it, anyway? However, despite his usual interest and speed in fixing bugs, Kent has not yet addressed the first-paragraph issue. It may be that Fade In uses a plugin of some kind, from another party, to handle the conversion of Fountain to the xml format that Fade In uses, and that fixing the bug would involve extensive reworking of code.

        Thank you for answering my question about the functionality of the demo version of Fade In.

        A couple of FYIs here ...

        FYI:
        In the Fade In menu under Import, when it says «Formatted Text» and «Unformatted Text», it really ought to say «As Formatted Text» and «As Unformatted Text». You are really choosing what you want the Fade In file to look like after the import. This is really confusing, simply because the word «As» is not there. But whether your source text file has all the standard margins, or is flush left, you get a perfectly formatted Fade In file when you select «Formatted Text» for the import. Conversely, any text file that you import by selecting «Unformatted» produces a Fade In document flush against the left margin, and every paragraph has the style «Unformatted». To reiterate from earlier, the text file has got to have certain things capitalized, and certain blank lines have to be present, or the converter cannot tell what is what.

        FYI:
        Fade In does a fantastic job of converting PDF files. I mentioned earlier that I use a utility to convert from PDF to text. I only use it when Fade In cannot handle the crappy PDF files that some drivers produce (I refer to them collectively as «CowFlopPDF»). Really, some drivers are terrible. And another bad one is the one that Microsoft Word uses. Just the other day I had to use the utility to do the conversion of a Word-produced PDF. The utility leaves in the form feeds (pagination) and the headers with page numbers. Fortunately, I now know how to use «regular expressions» (regex) for fairly simple things, and I can easily strip out all of that mess. Fade In removes that stuff when it can import a PDF.

        Folks, get one of the good free PDF drivers. I have recommended PrimoPDF for years, and lots of people like CutePDF.

        "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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        • #5
          Re: Jstar (Joe) and Fountain for screenplays

          Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
          A year or two ago I figured out that === was the best way to circumvent what I will call the «first-paragraph bug» in converting from .fountain to .fadein. I brought all of this to the attention of the Fade In developer, Kent Tessman. He said that it had something to do with the Fountain code for the title page. I guess the Fountain title-page code somehow affects the beginning of the script, even if you have no title page. I have not tried using Fountain for a title page in a couple of years, because I did not find it to be helpful, and who really needs it, anyway? However, despite his usual interest and speed in fixing bugs, Kent has not yet addressed the first-paragraph issue. It may be that Fade In uses a plugin of some kind, from another party, to handle the conversion of Fountain to the xml format that Fade In uses, and that fixing the bug would involve extensive reworking of code.
          Okay, so he's aware of it. Your fix works -- so it's not an issue for me -- so long as other folks know about it. The only place where I've (personally) seen the title page code work correctly is on afterwriting.com. I'm guessing the software that John August and Co. are involved with (like Highland) probably handle it correctly also.

          Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
          Thank you for answering my question about the functionality of the demo version of Fade In.
          No problem. I enjoy playing with screenplay writing software. To be honest, downloading and using the trial version of ScriptThing for DOS was so fun that is what got me started in my screenplay writing "hobby." I used to write short stories, so I moved to writing short stories in screenplay format. Never really got the hang of a feature length screenplay -- though I did actually finish one terrible one.
          STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Jstar (Joe) and Fountain for screenplays

            Yeah, I just think of === on the first line (with one blank line after that) as the start of a new script in Fountain text. It disappears when you import into Fade In.

            I suspect that, eventually, Fade In will correct this minor bug. But it may have to wait for an improvement to the plugin (assuming that this is how Fade In handles the conversion from Fountain to xml).

            "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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            • #7
              Re: Jstar (Joe) and Fountain for screenplays

              Haven't tried them, but there are some Fountain import tools for LibreOffice here.

              https://sourceforge.net/projects/fou...reofficetools/

              It would be quite possible for someone to write some WordStar keystroke macros for LibreOffice or OpenOffice - though having a quick look, no-one seems to have done it to date.

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              • #8
                Re: Jstar (Joe) and Fountain for screenplays

                Originally posted by JeJ View Post
                Haven't tried them, but there are some Fountain import tools for LibreOffice here.

                https://sourceforge.net/projects/fou...reofficetools/
                I experimented with this just the other day. I must be stupid or slow, but this just looked like more work than it was worth. I've never much cared for screenplay macros in word processors. It seems like there's always something that only works half-way and you end up with a lot of odd code mixed in with the text that you have to clear out when moving to a proprietary screenplay editor.

                Originally posted by JeJ View Post
                It would be quite possible for someone to write some WordStar keystroke macros for LibreOffice or OpenOffice - though having a quick look, no-one seems to have done it to date.
                Now THAT I would like to see. Actually I -- personally -- would like to see WordStar keystrokes in every word processor and editor. (I'm not a crank or anything.)
                STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Jstar (Joe) and Fountain for screenplays

                  Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
                  Yeah, I just think of === on the first line (with one blank line after that) as the start of a new script in Fountain text. It disappears when you import into Fade In.

                  I suspect that, eventually, Fade In will correct this minor bug. But it may have to wait for an improvement to the plugin (assuming that this is how Fade In handles the conversion from Fountain to xml).
                  It's a tiny inconvenience. Well, I guess it could be a bit of a pain if you were importing bits and pieces of the script as you went -- but for importing a full script it's hardly worth even thinking about.
                  STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Jstar (Joe) and Fountain for screenplays

                    Centos: I guess it could be a bit of a pain if you were importing bits and pieces of the script as you went -- but for importing a full script it's hardly worth even thinking about.
                    Actually, this is not a problem.

                    The bug is only an issue when you import a Fountain file into Fade In. That is when you need the initial
                    ===
                    <blank line<
                    <start here for text<

                    However, you do not have to import the file at all. You can simply paste it, or any portion of it. Fade In has a neat feature of allowing you to <Paste as Fountain<.

                    When you paste, you do not have to worry about the first-paragraph bug (which only happens because of the proximity to the title-page code, I think).

                    Do the following:

                    Open a new file in Fade In, totally blank, and then paste your Fountain text directly onto the first line. You can paste it in either of two ways.
                    1. Right-click and select Fountain > Paste as Fountain; OR
                    2. Use the shortcut key combination: Ctrl+Shift+V
                    In order to paste as Fountain, it is necessary that you have your Preferences set to allow this. Once you set the preference, it remains set forever unless you change it.

                    To set the Preference:
                    EDIT > Preferences > Editing
                    Check the box for Enable Fountain Copy and Paste
                    If you have some Fade In text that you want to paste elsewhere as Fountain text, you can do that, too. You follow the same steps of right-clicking, etc., or you can use Ctrl+Shift+C.
                    (By the way, those key combinations are correct. I discovered a mistake in the Help documentation. The Help section on shortcut keys gives Ctrl+Alt+C and Ctrl+Alt+V for these actions, but those do not work. I will report this to Kent.)
                    Fade In rocks!

                    "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Jstar (Joe) and Fountain for screenplays

                      Earlier tonight I sent an email to Kent about the error in documentation, and he has already sent back an email telling me that he is going to look at it.

                      That is one of the things that I really like about Fade In. The developer actually cares and wants to fix any problems.

                      "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Jstar (Joe) and Fountain for screenplays

                        Originally posted by Centos View Post
                        Now THAT I would like to see. Actually I -- personally -- would like to see WordStar keystrokes in every word processor and editor. (I'm not a crank or anything.)
                        Had a little go at that - sent you an email with it as can't seem to post here.

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