Experience with the Blcklst and first evaluation

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  • Experience with the Blcklst and first evaluation

    So I thought I'd give the Blcklst a try with a script of mine, probably the strongest one according to anyone who's read my work. It's a small, character driven drama, and I purchased two evaluations. The first one came in a day or two after. I thought it was quick, but then I understood why.

    I got a 5, and this is a script that got me management, was praised by several script consultants, a couple mentioned here on the forums, was submitted to several production companies by a producer, had several positive reads etc. I've worked on countless drafts of it and consider it my strongest work.

    I'm not angry at getting a five. Let's be clear. I'm really not.

    What I'm confused about, is the fact that the reader seems to not have read my script with any real detail. It's almost like they skimmed it, and flat out mention things in the evaluation notes that lead me to believe this.

    To be honest, it feels like something a college kid who hates reading scripts read and wrote out in one sitting.

    I hate to be this negative, but I paid for this service, and not only is the feedback very short, but the criticisms I don't consider very...valid?

    I understand things people say like "You didn't make this point well enough," or "I know he's supposed to be a strong guy but you don't show it" or things like that. I consider those valid. I'm man enough to know I make mistakes. I've taken criticism on my work extremely well, and welcome it. I love reading notes from producers or readers. But when it's apparent a person literally missed things in the script -- well I get a little perturbed.

    So here's my question: these evaluations come from industry professionals? Or BlckLst readers? If the site allows random professionals to download the script and read it, then I guess you get what you get, but if this was a professional evaluation by someone on the site, then I'd like to have a word with someone. Anyone have this experience?

  • #2
    Re: Experience with the Blcklst and first evaluation

    Originally posted by mixj View Post

    I hate to be this negative, but I paid for this service, and not only is the feedback very short, but the criticisms I don't consider very...valid?

    I understand things people say like "You didn't make this point well enough," or "I know he's supposed to be a strong guy but you don't show it" or things like that. I consider those valid. I'm man enough to know I make mistakes. I've taken criticism on my work extremely well, and welcome it. I love reading notes from producers or readers. But when it's apparent a person literally missed things in the script -- well I get a little perturbed.

    So here's my question: these evaluations come from industry professionals? Or BlckLst readers? If the site allows random professionals to download the script and read it, then I guess you get what you get, but if this was a professional evaluation by someone on the site, then I'd like to have a word with someone. Anyone have this experience?
    There are a lot of good and lengthy links--some rather new-- related to BL. But I have seen comments from several users who were unhappy that suggested they received replacement evaluations from BL. It sounds like perhaps you would have cause to request this. Good luck!

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    • #3
      Re: Experience with the Blcklst and first evaluation

      It's a small, character driven drama.
      You know, I suppose, that this is code for "boring"?

      If you want me to read it and evaluate it, you can send it to me.

      [email protected]

      "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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      • #4
        Re: Experience with the Blcklst and first evaluation

        Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
        You know, I suppose, that this is code for "boring"?
        ComicBent, this made me laugh, but is it really true, do you think?

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        • #5
          Re: Experience with the Blcklst and first evaluation

          Yes, I am afraid that "character-driven drama" usually means lack of tension, virtually no plot, stakes that are vague or trivial, and poor audience identification with the characters.

          Of course, and I mean this sincerely, mixj's script may be an exception. We do not know, do we?

          Throughout my years at Done Deal Pro I have occasionally posed this question in some form: You think that your script is good. Would you invest money in it, if you were going to be held responsible for the success or failure of the film? I don't think that anyone has ever said yes, but maybe I just do not remember.

          Moving on from mixj specifically ... People do not want to accept that a 5 is an average score. This is an average among people who can actually write a screenplay and want to do so. It is an "average" among peers, not among the general population.

          "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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          • #6
            Re: Experience with the Blcklst and first evaluation

            All I can say is that I have read scripts that received 8s and 9s from the BL and they were not deserving of such merits, then I've also heard of someone getting a 6 but that some manager found the script, liked it and signed the writer. Hard to put your finger on what is the criteria upon which scripts are being rated.

            If you look at it business wise from the BL POV, then it really is counter intuitive to give low scores. Customers will feel gipped, kinda like you do.

            Like Comic, I also would be very interested in reading a script that is a 5 on the BL but that a producer considered and a manager signed you based upon it.

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            • #7
              Re: Experience with the Blcklst and first evaluation

              If your script is indeed boring, why would a reader recommend it to a higher up? Of course he/she'll give you a 5. Like any readers you encounter, your top priority, your Alpha and Omega, is always "Don't bore them." Just look at "Deeper" by Max Landis. Will likely suck as a film, makes no sense, is downright stupid at times, but it wasn't a boring script! That's for sure! That's where you need to be. Of course, you need the excitement and solid story and characters to really make an impression as an amateur.
              I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

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              • #8
                Re: Experience with the Blcklst and first evaluation

                Originally posted by FoxHound View Post
                If your script is indeed boring, why would a reader recommend it to a higher up? Of course he/she'll give you a 5. Like any readers you encounter, your top priority, your Alpha and Omega, is always "Don't bore them." Just look at "Deeper" by Max Landis. Will likely suck as a film, makes no sense, is downright stupid at times, but it wasn't a boring script! That's for sure! That's where you need to be. Of course, you need the excitement and solid story and characters to really make an impression as an amateur.
                Just an fyi, the OP didn't suggest his script was boring, so I don't think we can assume it is. He/she merely said it was a "small character driven drama."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Experience with the Blcklst and first evaluation

                  Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
                  All I can say is that I have read scripts that received 8s and 9s from the BL and they were not deserving of such merits, then I've also heard of someone getting a 6 but that some manager found the script, liked it and signed the writer. Hard to put your finger on what is the criteria upon which scripts are being rated.
                  But it's like this in Hollywood, too.

                  The notion that there's some sort of objective standard by which to evaluate screenplays is absurd. There's no checklist. There's no scale.

                  What it comes down to is: "Did they fall in love with your script?"

                  If the answer is yes, you'll get a high score. If the answer is no, you won't. But it's same if you're getting read at a prod-co or an agency. "Did they fall in love with your script?"

                  People don't know why they do (or don't) fall in love with a given script. At best, they guess. Or they come up with reasons to explain it after-the-fact.

                  My script that won the Nicholl and got me my first agent and my first job, received some of the most scathing coverage I've ever read at CAA. If that reader was a Black List reviewer, they probably would have given it a 3 or a 4.

                  There is no objective standard.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Experience with the Blcklst and first evaluation

                    Here's my recent BL experience, and it leads to a q:

                    I got superlative comments -- and a 6 overall.

                    The feedback was not in alignment with the score given. Like, as in, not at all.

                    I've got the feedback public because honestly, I'm not sure I could ask for higher praise.

                    However, a 6 falls squarely in the meh category. Weird, right?

                    Should I ask for a do-over? I'd lose the high praise -- but the score's the driver, no?

                    Dunno. The high praise/mediocre score are creating cognitive dissonance for me.

                    What sayeth the peanut gallery. Request a do-over or keep what I got.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Experience with the Blcklst and first evaluation

                      Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
                      You know, I suppose, that this is code for "boring"?
                      OP this is not to ding your script, which could rock, but LOL on this.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Experience with the Blcklst and first evaluation

                        Hard to put your finger on what ratings mean over there. I've read stuff that had high scores like 8s and 9s and they were 3s or 4s at best in my scale. I also hear of 6s and 7s harming attention from movers and shakers. How do you read something into it? I have no idea.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Experience with the Blcklst and first evaluation

                          Here's my negative experience and when we talk about scripts it's subjective. Most writers will defend their "flawed" baby to the end then look back and realize that maybe it wasn't so great, but at the time...

                          I had this script I wrote and enjoyed it (of course it's my brilliant writing). It got me an agent and was optioned twice (once for 500 dollars and once for nothing but the producer had a ton of credits and the agent assured me it would get produced). Two years later nothing came of it. I got nowhere. So not having an agent/manager anymore I decided to try and fish one in with my baby. I entered BL. A few weeks later, I got a low score. The reader said some nice things but also pointed out perceived flaws. Initially I was annoyed. I paid for this? Then I thought about it. I had never really gotten feedback on it before. It was either "we want it" or absolute silence (more silence I'm afraid). I looked at the script again...

                          One of the complaints from the reader was it took too long for the action to start. I put my mining hat on and shaved off 12 pages. 10 of it from the first 40 pages. I tweaked the characters. I sat back and thought "hey, this reader actually made me strive for more. I like the script much better. It's more streamlined." Soooo I sent it back to BL and paid for another evaluation. This time I'm going to attract a producer or agent... A few weeks later, I scored a point lower. Guess what was raised? If you guess my blood pressure you'd be right. I paid for these 2 evaluations! Guess what else was raised my credit card debt from paying for this.

                          Everytime I rant about these things someone chimes in that they got an awesome agent and a sale so I never know what to believe other then they are the rare exceptions.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Experience with the Blcklst and first evaluation

                            Purple --

                            Yeah, it's been pointed out re: have to be careful when it comes to making changes in order to please. I could see making the changes then having another reader read the script and say "hey why not try this" and it's what reader one said to change, etc.!

                            Time for an anecdote I once heard Bob Odenkirk share:

                            Warner Bros bought a script. Everyone was hot to get George Clooney attached. It went through about seven drafts and two, maybe three writers and all of this over the course of say, three years. Maybe more.

                            It's finally "done" -- and the assistant accidentally sends Clooney the original draft. And he loved it.

                            I think about that a lot. Our instincts are very much challenged at every step of the way! It has been ever thus.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Experience with the Blcklst and first evaluation

                              High praise feels good, doesn't it?

                              It feels so good it makes you want to spend more money, doesn't it?

                              The carrot looks so close you can almost taste it.

                              High praise and mediocre score is a situation where they let you smell the carrot, but still no tasting it. Heaven forbid, you actually bite into it and realize it's plastic and fake.

                              But you go right ahead and open that wallet and continue to chase that carrot. You can see it. You can smell it. Chase, chase, spend, spend. You're almost there.

                              It's all by design.

                              But you might get lucky.. they have to show someone nibbling the fake carrot once in a while to keep that glimmer of false hope alive in the eyes of all the other carrot chasers.

                              Or you could walk right past the people holding that fake carrot out in front of you. Walk past them like they don't exist. Stop purchasing false hope from the industry dream pimps. Do the work for yourself. Learn what you need to learn. Educate yourself on the industry. Keep writing. If you do the work, opportunities will come when you're ready.

                              Originally posted by sixridgeroad View Post
                              Here's my recent BL experience, and it leads to a q:

                              I got superlative comments -- and a 6 overall.

                              The feedback was not in alignment with the score given. Like, as in, not at all.

                              I've got the feedback public because honestly, I'm not sure I could ask for higher praise.

                              However, a 6 falls squarely in the meh category. Weird, right?

                              Should I ask for a do-over? I'd lose the high praise -- but the score's the driver, no?

                              Dunno. The high praise/mediocre score are creating cognitive dissonance for me.

                              What sayeth the peanut gallery. Request a do-over or keep what I got.

                              Comment

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